2017 General Election thread

[dloman]

Certainly, I saw John Prescott on the Daily Politics yesterday confirming,what I thought was widely known, that police numbers have been cut since the Blair/Brown goverments.

One reason and by the way I am not saying it is the only reason. Prior to 2004 numbers included all those on career breaks, maternity and paternity and suspensions etc. So the figures from then will be slightly skewed as this could account for quite a few thousand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34899060 link to police numbers here and roughly the same as 2003

 

[superblue24]

Mrs May and her team had a big advantage over the other parties. She chose the time of the election and when it was announced. She had the advantage of being able to plan her strategy months in advance, yet she appears to have mis-judged the mood of the people on policies like fox hunting and the dementia tax.

Perhaps many people are thinking if she is so poor at running a campaign that is focused almost entirely on her and her team, then maybe she isn't the right person to lead the country at this important time.

Well, I stop short there. Just because the campaign has been badly run, I still firmly believe that this government is infinitely more competent than the alternative Labour offer. The economy is turning the corner with net borrowing decreasing year on year.... Labour plans would see a massive jump in borrowing and debt which would put the country in grave danger.... See: Greece

It's a worry that peoples heads are actually being turned by these "pots of gold" Labour are offering in their manifesto, not to mention the youngsters all signing up to vote who have little knowledge of the ramifications we could face as a country under Labour rule.

I can't understand for the life of me why May felt it necessary to include these irritating policies in her manifesto. She's put the country at risk of coming under Labour rule in my opinion, although I will wait until the results of the GE are known before I am too critical.

I can see her definitely losing seats at best but I will still be voting for the best people available for the job, the Conservatives.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Well, I stop short there. Just because the campaign has been badly run, I still firmly believe that this government is infinitely more competent than the alternative Labour offer. The economy is turning the corner with net borrowing decreasing year on year.... Labour plans would see a massive jump in borrowing and debt which would put the country in grave danger.... See: Greece

It's a worry that peoples heads are actually being turned by these "pots of gold" Labour are offering in their manifesto, not to mention the youngsters all signing up to vote who have little knowledge of the ramifications we could face as a country under Labour rule.

I can't understand for the life of me why May felt it necessary to include these irritating policies in her manifesto. She's put the country at risk of coming under Labour rule in my opinion, although I will wait until the results of the GE are known before I am too critical.

I can see her definitely losing seats at best but I will still be voting for the best people available for the job, the Conservatives.

the Tories certainly agree with you that they don't trust the young to vote the right way - they had literally no social media posts to encourage people to register to vote - no targeting of young voters to get them signed up and get them engaged.

And the youth are the ones with £30k of tuition fees if they go to Uni, no access to the safety net of housing benefit, lower levels of minimum wage, mostly no chance of pulling together a deposit to buy a home without the assistance of their parents, more likely to be trapped in minimum hours contracts with no access to worker representatives. And due to this it's no wonder
that the Tories don't want them to vote. But unfortunately for the Tories and for you there was a massive surge of under 24's signing up to vote, and of course young people have parents and those patents too are like to vote to improve the lot of their children.

 

[superblue24]

the Tories certainly agree with you that they don't trust the young to vote the right way - they had literally no social media posts to encourage people to register to vote - no targeting of young voters to get them signed up and get them engaged.

And the youth are the ones with £30k of tuition fees if they go to Uni, no access to the safety net of housing benefit, lower levels of minimum wage, mostly no chance of pulling together a deposit to buy a home without the assistance of their parents, more likely to be trapped in minimum hours contracts with no access to worker representatives. And due to this it's no wonder
that the Tories don't want them to vote. But unfortunately for the Tories and for you there was a massive surge of under 24's signing up to vote, and of course young people have parents and those patents too are like to vote to improve the lot of their children.

My message to them is "welcome to the real world"

its sucks, but at least we're not in irreparable debt like Greece. We all make sacrifices for the good of the country and economy. Take the big Labour giveaway at your peril, the long term outlook will be grimmer than grim.

 

[maninasuitcase]

Well, I stop short there. Just because the campaign has been badly run, I still firmly believe that this government is infinitely more competent than the alternative Labour offer. The economy is turning the corner with net borrowing decreasing year on year.... Labour plans would see a massive jump in borrowing and debt which would put the country in grave danger.... See: Greece

It's a worry that peoples heads are actually being turned by these "pots of gold" Labour are offering in their manifesto, not to mention the youngsters all signing up to vote who have little knowledge of the ramifications we could face as a country under Labour rule.

I can't understand for the life of me why May felt it necessary to include these irritating policies in her manifesto. She's put the country at risk of coming under Labour rule in my opinion, although I will wait until the results of the GE are known before I am too critical.

I can see her definitely losing seats at best but I will still be voting for the best people available for the job, the Conservatives.

You seem to have a very patronising attitude to the younger voter because they might vote for the 'wrong' party. It is their democratic right to sign up and vote, I don't see any problem with that which ever name they decide to put their cross against.

If Mrs May and her team aren't persuading them to vote for her, well that is her fault and hers alone.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

My message to them is "welcome to the real world"

its sucks, but at least we're not in irreparable debt like Greece. We all make sacrifices for the good of the country and economy. Take the big Labour giveaway at your peril, the long term outlook will be grimmer than grim.

We are told that this is the problem Cameron had with the working class North during the referendum - telling them what way to vote for a supposed 'good of the country' when they were thinking a vote for change may give them jobs or better jobs or access to housing.


So May can try that again by saying 'vote for the party that creates a strong economy' but the young will see that means underfunded services, debt at 89% of GDP, and no guarantees on tax rises. So the economy argument won't be that convincing, and closer to home - uni debt, no help with housing, low paid insecure jobs. They have made it an easy choice for the young.


But for the police Labour have offered higher level of staffing so they will be tempted to lower their work burden. For teachers Labour offer to end the Tory funding cuts and stop taking from the school budgets to fund 'free' schools and soon to fund new grammars - so they will be tempted to see their schools properly funded. For nurses Labour will stop the pay freeze and reintroduce the training bursary so they will tempted. For nurses and doctors Labour will rid them of Jeremy Hunt so they will be tempted. For the old Labour will keep the triple lock pension and heating allowance and will not see their homes diminished by the dementia tax - so they will be tempted.


Animal loves will be tempted to vote Labour to avoid the embarrassing reintroduction of fox hunting and relaxing of ivory laws. Anyone who struggles to get their holiday allowance to span a year will be tempted to vote Labour for four national holidays. 95% of the country will be tempted to vote Labour as they won't see tax rises in the next Parliament.


There is a big list of people who will personally benefit from a Labour government. The 'for the economy' argument isn't cutting through for the Tories when debt has never been higher. The 'look at Corbyn' argument isn't working as people are now looking at Corbyn and seeing someone devoid of politicians bull, relaxed when scrutinised, warm and friendly with voters, saying what he thinks rather than repeating a slogan and swerving questions.


The Tories have failed to explain what they do for most individuals and failed to explain what they do for the country as a whole. They have a LOT of Work to do to get their campaign started and very little time left to do it.

 

[Gremlin]

Strong and stable not working, maybe lying is the way forward?

After claiming on TV last night that he's never met with the IRA it looks as though Corbyn would agree with this.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

After claiming on TV last night that he's never met with the IRA it looks as though Corbyn would agree with this.

I've taken part of an article, the rest can be read at:


http://www.tomgriffin.org




In 2003's Bloody Sunday Commemoration John McDonnell made his oft-quoted comments about the need 'to honour IRA members'.


Following the Sun's coverage, McDonnell gave a statement which sought to put his comments in the context of the crisis in the peace process at the time:


'In my speech I aimed to address republicans in terms they would understand. My message was that they had been successful in bringing about negotiations and that all those who contributed to this goal had won respect. Along with others, I am hoping to create the kinds of formulations through which the IRA, the loyalist paramilitaries and the British army can all depart the scene without a sense of abiding grievance. No side will move if movement is portrayed as humiliating surrender.
That effort has now been distorted into an alleged expression of support for the slaughter of innocent children. Let me be clear, I abhor and condemn the killing of innocent human beings. My heart goes out to all those who have lost friends and relatives in the Troubles.




How decisive an intervention by an MP at a small public meeting in London would have been in these terms is open to question, but as an analysis of the situation at the time it should not be dismissed. If the peace process was to get past the decommissioning logjam, it was IRA members who would have to be persuaded.


It is this internal dynamic within republicanism that is missed by Corbyn and McDonnell's critics. It is sometimes said that they were not working for peace because they engaged the leadership of Sinn Feín, rather than the SDLP, and that this encouraged republicans to continue the war. In reality, in working with Sinn Fein, they were working with the very people whose dialogue with grassroots republicanism was essential to the IRA ceasefire, and who needed to be able to demonstrate political influence to show that there was an alternative way forward. The SDLP itself tacitly recognised this through its own engagement with Sinn Fein in the Hume-Adams dialogue.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

SPORT ** POLITICS ** SPORT

just trying to spark an interest

Football policy announcements by the Labour party - ensuring the 5% of TV money goes to grassroots football - that was reiterated today, along with - and I love this as this massively effects travelling fans:

Flexible train fares to away matches - so if you buy train tickets to an away game and it is rescheduled or postponed you can use the same train tickets for the rescheduled match.

That right there is attention to detail - listening to normal people's issues and coming up with a solution - love that!

Or

SPORT ** POLITICS ** SPORT

Tories will bring to Parliament a vote to bring back fox hunting.


SPORT ** POLITICS ** SPORT

 

[Uncle Leo]

Drove up Essex Way and Benfleet Road today. Several Conservative posters / placards and every single one of them defaced. Either knocked over, or Harris' face punched in, or supplementary text added (e.g. VOTE CONSERVATIVE if you want to ruin the country).

Not particularly grown up but I think any such banners are fair game for a spot of graffiti.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Thought Corbyn did well on QT earlier and in the Paxman interview afterwards.Anyone watch the May segment? Coudn't be bothered personally.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Well, I stop short there. Just because the campaign has been badly run, I still firmly believe that this government is infinitely more competent than the alternative Labour offer. The economy is turning the corner with net borrowing decreasing year on year.... Labour plans would see a massive jump in borrowing and debt which would put the country in grave danger.... See: Greece

It's a worry that peoples heads are actually being turned by these "pots of gold" Labour are offering in their manifesto, not to mention the youngsters all signing up to vote who have little knowledge of the ramifications we could face as a country under Labour rule.

I can't understand for the life of me why May felt it necessary to include these irritating policies in her manifesto. She's put the country at risk of coming under Labour rule in my opinion, although I will wait until the results of the GE are known before I am too critical.

I can see her definitely losing seats at best but I will still be voting for the best people available for the job, the Conservatives.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...es-pressing-issue-economic-outlook-disastrous

I'm afraid The Guardian (quoted above ) and the Sunday Times which I read earlier don't share your view about the health of the British economy.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Don't think there was too much you could take from last night's 'debate' other than May being an utter ****ing shambles.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Thought Corbyn did well on QT earlier and in the Paxman interview afterwards.Anyone watch the May segment? Coudn't be bothered personally.

you should watch it - Corbyn bossed Paxman, Paxman bossed May, even the audience bossed May. All of the polls on twitter had 'who won?' as 70% or more for Corbyn. I'm using the Sky poll as unbiased and 6,000 people have voted with 70% saying Corbyn. Would like to know the viewing figures as lots of anecdotal evidence of this being the final push for people to switch their vote.

In government, 20+% in the polls, she is throwing this away.

 

[Napster]

you should watch it - Corbyn bossed Paxman, Paxman bossed May, even the audience bossed May. All of the polls on twitter had 'who won?' as 70% or more for Corbyn. I'm using the Sky poll as unbiased and 6,000 people have voted with 70% saying Corbyn. Would like to know the viewing figures as lots of anecdotal evidence of this being the final push for people to switch their vote.

In government, 20+% in the polls, she is throwing this away.

One thing i've noticed, both leaders have a vacuum of charisma. At least Call me Tony and Davey Boy had a bit of charm about them.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

My message to them is "welcome to the real world"

its sucks, but at least we're not in irreparable debt like Greece. We all make sacrifices for the good of the country and economy. Take the big Labour giveaway at your peril, the long term outlook will be grimmer than grim.

It certainly sucks for young people,which is precisely why Labour is offering them a way out.Not so bad for people at our end of the age spectrum, I suppose.Don't you care about the future prospects of young people?

BTW,comparing the UK's economy with that of Greece, is what Boy George would call "economic illiteracy".:winking:

 

[Blueronron]

Was out and about yesterday in Basildon, helping the Labour people, and was surprised how many have changed views on Corbyn, from a few weeks a go" He's not the right man to lead " to now " OK, he has come across with good views " ,explained he has always had these views but biased newspapers have condemned him for things thirty years ao.

One thing against him,and time and time again I was told on the door step yesterday, really Diane Abbott could you see her as a political person abroad, I always reply compared to Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, she is no worse

UTS

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Was out and about yesterday in Basildon, helping the Labour people, and was surprised how many have changed views on Corbyn, from a few weeks a go" He's not the right man to lead " to now " OK, he has come across with good views " ,explained he has always had these views but biased newspapers have condemned him for things thirty years ao.

One thing against him,and time and time again I was told on the door step yesterday, really Diane Abbott could you see her as a political person abroad, I always reply compared to Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, she is no worse

UTS

As Shadow Home Secretary she's unlikely to spend much time abroad I think.:winking:

 

[Napster]

BTW,comparing the UK's economy with that of Greece, is what Boy George would call "economic illiteracy".:winking:

which is why we're better off out of Europe.

 

[MK Shrimper]

which is why we're better off out of Europe.

Says the remainer. :whistling: