Zone Update The £80 million question

[OldBlueLady]

Can anyone explain why we still have both these £80 million threads running? I know some feel very passionate about it, and of course, I respect that but it's getting a little tiresome having two lots of practically the same posts.

 

[Irate Ian]

Can anyone explain why we still have both these £80 million threads running? I know some feel very passionate about it, and of course, I respect that but it's getting a little tiresome having two lots of practically the same posts.

Becuase when the purely financial thread was first started a mod deemed it to be a Fossetts thread and moved it.

I then re-posted to Chit Chat, since as mentioned it was a financial related topic viz: the raising of £80M, or the question of whether 80M is now the true cost of intended development.

Had the thread not been moved in the first place, we would not now have this situation, which I agree is cumbersome, but should only be at Chit Chat.

 

[weststander]

Addendum: If any shareholders would consider a proxy in my favour, I would be quite interested to attend the next AGM on their behalf.

Novel idea Ian, why dont you buy some shares, then you would be able to go in your own right.

 

[Irate Ian]

Novel idea Ian, why dont you buy some shares, then you would be able to go in your own right.

Because I wish to remain totally independent with no other or hidden agenda.

There questions are really quite easily answered if the answerer has nothing to hide or is fully transparent.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Does this mean you don't hold shares then?

 

[Irate Ian]

Does this mean you don't hold shares then?

Exactly that I don't [in SUFC] and would only ever invest with complete knowledge of what the prospectus is.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Then please don't take this the wrong way, but what does all of this have to do with you?

I think all of your questions are very valid but they are the type, as I said before, that he would only have to answer at an AGM/EGM. As a non shareholder, why does he have to respond to any questions you ask of this nature?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but these are all business related questions. I would have thought that being supporters does not entitle us to know the ins and outs of how the club works/is financed - this is a privilege that comes with being a shareholder.

The fact RM has not answered your questions may simply be down to the fact that he does not want them to be for public (ie non shareholder) consumption yet, and if that's the case then it doesn't matter what assurances he's made in the past.

These questions are of a business, not a supporters, nature. Therefore, IMO, he is under no obligation whatsoever to reply to them.

 

[Irate Ian]

Then please don't take this the wrong way, but what does all of this have to do with you?

I think all of your questions are very valid but they are the type, as I said before, that he would only have to answer at an AGM/EGM. As a non shareholder, why does he have to respond to any questions you ask of this nature?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but these are all business related questions. I would have thought that being supporters does not entitle us to know the ins and outs of how the club works/is financed - this is a privilege that comes with being a shareholder.

The fact RM has not answered your questions may simply be down to the fact that he does not want them to be for public (ie non shareholder) consumption yet, and if that's the case then it doesn't matter what assurances he's made in the past.

These questions are of a business, not a supporters, nature. Therefore, IMO, he is under no obligation whatsoever to reply to them.

Do you think then the questions any more or less relevant to a shareholder, or supporter ? If so, I will agree to disagree with you.

The fundamantal questions concern the future of "our" club.

When and if I feel I am not part of the club, is the day I give up supporting and/or bothering to ask any questions.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Do you think then the questions any more or less relevant to a shareholder, or supporter ? If so, I will agree to disagree with you.

The fundamantal questions concern the future of "our" club.

When and if I feel I am not part of the club, is the day I give up supporting and/or bothering to ask any questions.

No,no, no, you don't get what I mean there. I'm not saying I don't have any concerns about the stadium etc, but I don't feel that these are issues/questions that the Chairman owes me answers to - it's something that will come out in the fullness of time.

If I was a shareholder then I would expect answers, as I would have a stake in the business.

The football side of things, he's answerable to the fans. The business side of things, to the shareholders. I just feel this is all business related matters.

 

[Beefy]

Then please don't take this the wrong way, but what does all of this have to do with you?

I think all of your questions are very valid but they are the type, as I said before, that he would only have to answer at an AGM/EGM. As a non shareholder, why does he have to respond to any questions you ask of this nature?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but these are all business related questions. I would have thought that being supporters does not entitle us to know the ins and outs of how the club works/is financed - this is a privilege that comes with being a shareholder.

The fact RM has not answered your questions may simply be down to the fact that he does not want them to be for public (ie non shareholder) consumption yet, and if that's the case then it doesn't matter what assurances he's made in the past.

These questions are of a business, not a supporters, nature. Therefore, IMO, he is under no obligation whatsoever to reply to them.

Whilst you are of course right and Ron owes no one any answers at this stage, let's not forget that Ron was very quick to get us all out flying the flag, writing to the Council, coming out and putting public pressure on local politicians to get planning permission granted in the first place. And those Southend fans who did anything that they could to support the application did so on the back of his public promises that a new ground was integral to the Club's future and the allusion that he made that the Club would benefit from the future revenue streams that the development would bring in.

As far as I'm concerned, Ron Martin has built up a huge amount of goodwill with his conduct in recent years. I don't need to know how every penny is going to be raised as it's none of my business and I don't think it's the business of anyone on here. But Ron Martin does owe each and every Southend fan a clarification on exactly what the business model is going to be going forward and at some point in the not too distant future I'd hope that he will provide that clarification..

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Whilst you are of course right and Ron owes no one any answers at this stage, let's not forget that Ron was very quick to get us all out flying the flag, writing to the Council, coming out and putting public pressure on local politicians to get planning permission granted in the first place. And those Southend fans who did anything that they could to support the application did so on the back of his public promises that a new ground was integral to the Club's future and the allusion that he made that the Club would benefit from the future revenue streams that the development would bring in.

As far as I'm concerned, Ron Martin has built up a huge amount of goodwill with his conduct in recent years. I don't need to know how every penny is going to be raised as it's none of my business and I don't think it's the business of anyone on here. But Ron Martin does owe each and every Southend fan a clarification on exactly what the business model is going to be going forward and at some point in the not too distant future I'd hope that he will provide that clarification..

Agreed, almost completely.

I think that we're just starting to get ourselves in a bit of a tizz for no reason. These questionsdo need answering, but as I've said, that's the point of the AGM. As you say, he's built up a lot of goodwill, and I personally don't think that he's suddenly setting out to screw the club over as some people seem to think.

 

[Irate Ian]

No,no, no, you don't get what I mean there. I'm not saying I don't have any concerns about the stadium etc, but I don't feel that these are issues/questions that the Chairman owes me answers to - it's something that will come out in the fullness of time.

If I was a shareholder then I would expect answers, as I would have a stake in the business.

The football side of things, he's answerable to the fans. The business side of things, to the shareholders. I just feel this is all business related matters.

Oh, I see... you think being a shareholder of a football club is a business matter, or an investment in the business.

Well unless you are talking about the likes of Man Utd., the facts are that buying a share is no more than a donation on which no return is likely.

In my view every season card or any other paying customer is a similar such donor to the club, both now and potentially into the future; and has every right to ask concerning questions that affect the long term future of "our" club.

Having been a paying customer for over 35 years, having supported through both thick and thin, I consider there should be no question where my loayalties lay.

You are right to a degree that Mr Martin may not be compelled to answer, but he committed to do so, and I regard the honouring of that promise at our meeting on 6th March 2008 as fundamental to whether he can be taken for his word.

Call me old fashioned but I still accept a mans promise as his bond, until that trust may be broken.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Oh, I see... you think being a shareholder of a football club is a business matter, or an investment in the business.

Well unless you are talking about the likes of Man Utd., the facts are that buying a share is no more than a donation on which no return is likely.

In my view every season card or any other paying customer is a similar such donor to the club, both now and potentially into the future; and has every right to ask concerning questions that affect the long term future of "our" club.

Having been a paying customer for over 35 years, having supported through both thick and thin, I consider there should be no question where my loayalties lay.

You are right to a degree that Mr Martin may not be compelled to answer, but he committed to do so, and I regard the honouring of that promise at our meeting on 6th March 2008 as fundamental to whether he can be taken for his word.

Call me old fashioned but I still accept a mans promise as his bond, until that trust may be broken.

See, that's where we have a difference of opinion. It doesn't matter why you buy shares, they are issued for business reasons, and therefore the club ceases to be just a football club but becomes a business that is accountable to the rules and regs of the city. Now, IMO, I consider paying for my season ticket and buying stuff in the club shop etc entitles me to comment on how the team is doing on the field, but not to know the ins and outs of the running of the club. If I wanted to do that then I'd buy shares.

Anyway, you said earlier that you don't buy shares unless you know the ins and outs of the business. That implies you buy them for investment opportunities, but you're saying that buying shares in here would not be one - if that's the case then why not just buy 1 share and go to the AGM to get all this anwered?

 

[Irate Ian]

See, that's where we have a difference of opinion. It doesn't matter why you buy shares, they are issued for business reasons, and therefore the club ceases to be just a football club but becomes a business that is accountable to the rules and regs of the city. Now, IMO, I consider paying for my season ticket and buying stuff in the club shop etc entitles me to comment on how the team is doing on the field, but not to know the ins and outs of the running of the club. If I wanted to do that then I'd buy shares.

Anyway, you said earlier that you don't buy shares unless you know the ins and outs of the business. That implies you buy them for investment opportunities, but you're saying that buying shares in here would not be one - if that's the case then why not just buy 1 share and go to the AGM to get all this anwered?

Because none have been on sale, with the full long term prospectus [Fossetts] being made public and:-

A minimum shareholding well above the level of 1 is a requirement for certain matters

and, in any event of over-riding importance;

I do not want to be involved in politics from within [as stated feel the need to be on the outside, as independent and non financially motivated or constrained by others].

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

I do not want to be involved in politics from within [as stated feel the need to be on the outside, as independent and non financially motivated or constrained by others].

I credit you with your persistance on this matter, but with the above I can't help but wonder about what Weststander wrote with regards to Tesco's etc and your arguement about being a season ticket holder - I spend far more (and, unfortunately spend much longer!) each year in Tesco's than I do at Southend, but there's no way I'd get anywhere in asking about there business plans for a new store. Again, and with all due respect, I just don't see any reason why you, or any of us non shareholders, are owed an expaination on this.

That said, however, I would still like to know just like you - the only difference is I'm prepared to wait.

 

[weststander]

I do not want to be involved in politics from within [as stated feel the need to be on the outside, as independent and non financially motivated or constrained by others].

If this is the case Ian, why are you asking for someone to give you their proxy so that you may go and ask questions at the AGM when you clearly state here that you 'need to be on the outside'.

 

[South Bank Hank]

Has been moved to Fossetts thread. Consider to review.

The initial subject is a general forum subject [financial issue about raising by finance £80 million ], and I do not feel the mods should be moving it from General Chit Chat Forum.

The reason it was moved is because the £80m is to be raised to fund Fossetts Farm. We have a section for discussion of Fossetts Farm and it's just as easy to find as this one. I'm on holiday and just checking in for my dose of Southend news so I can't be bothered to move it but, in my opinion, THIS thread should be in there.

It's not a graveyard Ian, it's just another part of the forum. We certainly don't need two threads.

 

[shrimpfan]

If this is the case Ian, why are you asking for someone to give you their proxy so that you may go and ask questions at the AGM when you clearly state here that you 'need to be on the outside'.

no questions can be asked with a proxy. ian knows he cant ask with a proxy hes been to a agm befor.

 

[weststander]

no questions can be asked with a proxy. ian knows he cant ask with a proxy hes been to a agm befor.

Thanks shrimpfan, i was unaware of this. I wonder why he's so keen to go then???

 

[blue scorpion]

Then please don't take this the wrong way, but what does all of this have to do with you?

I think all of your questions are very valid but they are the type, as I said before, that he would only have to answer at an AGM/EGM. As a non shareholder, why does he have to respond to any questions you ask of this nature?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but these are all business related questions. I would have thought that being supporters does not entitle us to know the ins and outs of how the club works/is financed - this is a privilege that comes with being a shareholder.

The fact RM has not answered your questions may simply be down to the fact that he does not want them to be for public (ie non shareholder) consumption yet, and if that's the case then it doesn't matter what assurances he's made in the past.

These questions are of a business, not a supporters, nature. Therefore, IMO, he is under no obligation whatsoever to reply to them.

The AGM should be the means by which shareholders can ask relevant questions of the board but, unfortunately, shareholders meetings have been somewhat irregular during the last couple of years.
If Irate can get some answers in the meantime then he certainly gets my support.