Brexit negotiations thread

[Lord Football]

I suspect if you cross out the word negotiate...and substitute with the word discuss that would be more accurate...in terms of HMG's official position.

What is clear is that there are 'Trade working groups', who are already meeting with overseas partners.

Trade working groups... old news and no secret

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/establishment-of-australia-uk-trade-working-group

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ork-for-potential-future-free-trade-agreement

But... and the crucial bit is..... they are only discussions to prepare. It may speed the process up, but there will still need to be all foundations in place as I mentioned above. Unless we just want to sign something without doing that (which in the current wouldn't surprise me).

Personally, I am worried about any deal with the US in the current Trump climate. And I am concerned in the post Brexit Free Trade Panic, Liam Fox will sign up to anything so he can wave a bit of paper as he gets off the plane from Washington.....

 

[callan]

Trade working groups... old news and no secret

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/establishment-of-australia-uk-trade-working-group

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ork-for-potential-future-free-trade-agreement

But... and the crucial bit is..... they are only discussions to prepare. It may speed the process up, but there will still need to be all foundations in place as I mentioned above. Unless we just want to sign something without doing that (which in the current wouldn't surprise me).

Personally, I am worried about any deal with the US in the current Trump climate. And I am concerned in the post Brexit Free Trade Panic, Liam Fox will sign up to anything so he can wave a bit of paper as he gets off the plane from Washington.....

I wouldn't devalue the importance of these working groups particularly when there is a fear amongst zoners that nothing much is happening....it is very clear that a broad spectrum of talks are going on across a range of countries.

Whilst you and I may see it as old or established news....for some it may be breaking news...and a point scoring exercise against a poor Tory government and an outcome in a referendum that they haven't voted for.

As for your concerns regarding a deal with the States....could it be that no deal really is better than a bad deal?

 

[callan]

its been suggested many times that we have staffing issues when it comes to the current need to negotiate / discuss with the EU and ROW simultaneously.

I understand that...in terms of numbers that is no longer the case...but would be interested to hear Lord Footballs views as to whether this is correct.

However and this is important, resources are not just people....but systems as well....we can have all the trade deals in the world but if our systems and processes don't or can't work on Brexit plus one....we will be in trouble.

 

[Lord Football]

I wouldn't devalue the importance of these working groups particularly when there is a fear amongst zoners that nothing much is happening....it is very clear that a broad spectrum of talks are going on across a range of countries.

Whilst you and I may see it as old or established news....for some it may be breaking news...and a point scoring exercise against a poor Tory government and an outcome in a referendum that they haven't voted for.

As for your concerns regarding a deal with the States....could it be that no deal really is better than a bad deal?

I am not overly excited about these talks, tbh. It's better than doing nothing, but, in the scheme of things they're talks about talks. There won't be a trade deal with anyone on day one...... unless we somehow transition, we will be a stand alone WTO country (and I believe that makes us unique)

I'm far more worried about other things. Such as the lack of urgency. We have 18 months to reach agreement, work out how things will work and implement them. To be absolutely nowhere in negotiations at this stage, bothers me. Greatly.

In the case of the States, then yes, no deal is probably better than a bad deal. However, we currently don't have a deal, so "no deal" is "business as usual". Makes no odds really, because we wont get any kind of deal with Trump in the big chair shouting "America First".

 

[Lord Football]

I understand that...in terms of numbers that is no longer the case...but would be interested to hear Lord Footballs views as to whether this is correct.

However and this is important, resources are not just people....but systems as well....we can have all the trade deals in the world but if our systems and processes don't or can't work on Brexit plus one....we will be in trouble.

You are right. Its not necessarily numbers of people, but what they know. I can't speak for the actual trade negotiators (I do know we had precisely none this time last year), but Brexit is probably the biggest challenge the UK civil service has ever faced.

None of this is made easier by the vast number of cuts the Austerity Government carried out

You mean this kind of system -
http://news.sky.com/story/mps-to-probe-whether-new-customs-system-ready-for-brexit-11024749

UPDATE - Heard on the grapevine this morning that BF will need 5000 more staff to cope imports from the EU (currently, they're not imports because there are no declaration requirements). Assuming the grade of these staff and they'll get some sort of attendance allowances I'd guess at £20k a year. That's an additional cost of £100m pa. But I've probably woefully under-estimated that.

 

[Lord Football]

Not on the grapevine anymore - though its HMRC not Border Force.....

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/09/...rexit-customs-demands/?ncid=aolshare_facebook


On the basis of that, I'd raise my cost estimate by 50%.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Ahem.......Guardian links??

Got something against The Grauniad? :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If I want to read the guardian I will buy a copy............

So you should if you want to learn something about the world we live in.:smiles:

 

[shrimpfan]

So you should if you want to learn something about the world we live in.:smiles:

No I shouldn't as I feel no need to quote on here from any newspapers or the BBC...

 

[Lord Football]

It's been deleted now. Plus the posts that linked to it. Happy now?

It did however contain all the facts and figures answering the questions raised by MK and Callan on the previous page and was way more informative than the AOL link that no one seemed bothered about. Strange that, don't you think.

 

[Benfleet A1]

It's been deleted now. Plus the posts that linked to it. Happy now?

It did however contain all the facts and figures answering the questions raised by MK and Callan on the previous page and was way more informative than the AOL link that no one seemed bothered about. Strange that, don't you think.

Standards set must be maintained :smile: Anyway, the AOL link wouldn't open. In other news, Boris is still saying that £350 million could be available (bollocks) and Germany and France are talking about putting a freeze on free movement for up to 4 years when they see fit. Wonder how Junker feels about that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No I shouldn't as I feel no need to quote on here from any newspapers or the BBC...

You've obviously never had to back up your opinions with sources,research etc as you would have had to have done at university level.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The no Guardian links has got a bit silly now. If someone has a more reliable source they are free to use it. Mail is not used for quotes by Wikipedia as too full of lies, Sun is roundly rejected as a hate-fest, Times is behind a paywall. Guardian and Telegraph (spit) should be ok to use for balance between the two of them.

 

[Bielzibubz]

***, it's not what's in the links or the source that some find irksome, it's the sheer quantity that continually gets posted and also the fact that more often than not the post that accompanies them contains nothing of worth towards the debate. Anyone can post links left right and center and add a quick one line comment merely stating they agree or disagree with it.

It's a very lazy and negative form of debate but, when they are accompanied by the posters own personal views or relevant experiences on the current subject, or as to why they agree, disagree or otherwise, they can be a very useful tool in putting the point across. I'd say the same about anyone that continually did the same, post after post after post.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

***, it's not what's in the links or the source that some find irksome, it's the sheer quantity that continually gets posted and also the fact that more often than not the post that accompanies them contains nothing of worth towards the debate. Anyone can post links left right and center and add a quick one line comment merely stating they agree or disagree with it.

It's a very lazy and negative form of debate but, when they are accompanied by the posters own personal views or relevant experiences on the current subject, or as to why they agree, disagree or otherwise, they can be a very useful tool in putting the point across. I'd say the same about anyone that continually did the same, post after post after post.

Wot no links? :winking:

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Standards set must be maintained :smile: Anyway, the AOL link wouldn't open. In other news, Boris is still saying that £350 million could be available (bollocks) and Germany and France are talking about putting a freeze on free movement for up to 4 years when they see fit. Wonder how Junker feels about that.

He will feel exactly as he is told to feel by his German and French masters, that is the Luxembourg way; and will be happy to feel that way as long as his state can retain it's privileged tax dodging leech like status. Ever wondered why they don't have refugees in Lux? or how they get away with special worker statuses?

 

[shrimpfan]

You've obviously never had to back up your opinions with sources,research etc as you would have had to have done at university level.

Does that make your boring posting of quotes right ............Lord football and callan posts make easy reading they don't need many quotes......

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He will feel exactly as he is told to feel by his German and French masters, that is the Luxembourg way; and will be happy to feel that way as long as his state can retain it's privileged tax dodging leech like status. Ever wondered why they don't have refugees in Lux? or how they get away with special worker statuses?

Funnily enough, one of my young French relatives has just swung an extremely well-paid job in Luxembourg (he's an IT security specialist).Mum's English,Dad's French.I believe he's very happy with his status as an EU citizen.

Does that make your boring posting of quotes right ............Lord football and callan posts make easy reading they don't need many quotes......

If you'd studied for a degree, you'd know that the appropriate use of quotations can make your argument much more compelling.

 

[Lord Football]

Right back on topic.......

I see BoJo is playing the "I wanna be the leader" game again with his statement about funding the NHS.

The ONS (who are neutral) say the figures do not bear scrutiny and no one seems to be factoring in the costs of additional staff (which were in the Guardian link I posted but since deleted) or replacing the funding arrangements of EU grants.

With 18 months until Brexit Day One, we seem to be going backwards and rehashing old (and discredited) arguments, making no tangible progress in negotiations and certainly not providing business with the information they need to ensure they can operate European trade when the day comes.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Funnily enough, one of my young French relatives has just swung an extremely well-paid job in Luxemberg (he's an IT security specialist).Mum's English,Dad's French.I believe he's very happy with his status as an EU citizen.

Does he live in Luxemberg or is he like most that work and pay low taxes there; that he lives in France, uses French schools and hospitals etc but doesn't "pay" for them from his taxes on earnings?