Brexit negotiations thread

[Tangled up in Blue]

1]I think it depends on what Labours position is on a customs union...whether they mean forming a new union between the UK and EU or remaining part of the old one.[/B]

Either way it is tantamount to allowing the EU to legislate, apply tariffs not withstanding that UK consumers will continue bear the brunt financially where the UK does not have a significant market of its own.

Labour will no doubt argue that it makes economic sense to stay in....however it will profoundly affect the UK's ability to be an independent nation....which they will need to square away with both remain and leave voters.

I think it's fairly clear,as Keir Starmer mentioned on Marr yesterday,that Labour are after a bespoke deal that would involve a new custons union deal not remaining in the existing one.

 

[callan]

I think it's fairly clear,as Keir Starmer mentioned on Marr yesterday,that Labour are after a bespoke deal that would involve a new custons union deal not remaining in the existing one.

I think the crux of any new deal would be that the UK must be able to negotiate its own trade deals.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

OK! I KNOW this comes from the Guardian but this hilarious article is not typically 'Guardianlike!' Sums up Labour's change of policy on Europe perfectly, taking a humorous and stinging swipe at many, along the way.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...f-of-no-10-and-corbyn-single-market-brexit-eu

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Looks as though the whole Ireland situation concerning Brexit is blowing apart..............and Boris Johnson with it.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-jo...task-as-no-irish-border-after-brexit-11270041

The mess risks fast becoming a bloody mess.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think the crux of any new deal would be that the UK must be able to negotiate its own trade deals.

Remember it's non a le "cherry- picking" according to that nice Mr Barnier. :winking:

 

[callan]

Remember it's non a le "cherry- picking" according to that nice Mr Barnier. :winking:

How is the UK concluding its own trade deals cherry picking?.....and when did Barnier explicitly say that the UKs ability to negotiate its own trade was cherry picking?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How is the UK concluding its own trade deals cherry picking?.....and when did Barnier explicitly say that the UKs ability to negotiate its own trade was cherry picking?

It obviously is, if we don't remain part of the customs union, as we currently are .Any bespoke deal for negotiating our own trade deals with countries outside the EU, would clearly involve an element of cherry-picking,which as far as I'm aware is not available to countries like Norway or Switzerland or even Turkey.Barnier's comments were widely reported yesterday.Quite clearly,implicitly at least, he was referring to JC's comments on Monday, about Labour backing a Brexit which involved the UK being part of a customs union.

 

[callan]

It obviously is, if we don't remain part of the customs union, as we currently are .Any bespoke deal for negotiating our own trade deals with countries outside the EU, would clearly involve an element of cherry-picking,which as far as I'm aware is not available to countries like Norway or Switzerland or even Turkey.Barnier's comments were widely reported yesterday.Quite clearly,implicitly at least, he was referring to JC's comments on Monday, about Labour backing a Brexit which involved the UK being part of a customs union.

So you made it up....glad that's sorted :)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you made it up....glad that's sorted :)

Ha! I'm more than ever convinced (especially after watching PMQ's earlier ) that the NI issue is going to be a deal breaker.I'm fully expecting us to crash out of the EU on WTO rules in March 2019.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Ha! I'm more than ever convinced (especially after watching PMQ's earlier ) that the NI issue is going to be a deal breaker.I'm fully expecting us to crash out of the EU on WTO rules in March 2019.

Expecting and hoping, just so you, in true leftie fashion, can bask in you're own self righteousness.

And just for the record. When it comes to securing the best trade deals for the UK, it's people and it's workforce, I would damn well hope that that a degree of cherry picking is going on. You don't sign trade deals that specifically benefit another nation and it's peoples over you're own unless you're clearly benefiting from it too. That's called negotiating and cherry picking what's best. And quite rightly in my opinion.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Expecting and hoping, just so you, in true leftie fashion, can bask in you're own self righteousness.

And just for the record. When it comes to securing the best trade deals for the UK, it's people and it's workforce, I would damn well hope that that a degree of cherry picking is going on. You don't sign trade deals that specifically benefit another nation and it's peoples over you're own unless you're clearly benefiting from it too. That's called negotiating and cherry picking what's best. And quite rightly in my opinion.

When the government have decided what they want from an EU deal we will find out if they aim to pick cherries. At the moment they haven't made a decision on that.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Expecting and hoping, just so you, in true leftie fashion, can bask in you're own self righteousness.

And just for the record. When it comes to securing the best trade deals for the UK, it's people and it's workforce, I would damn well hope that that a degree of cherry picking is going on. You don't sign trade deals that specifically benefit another nation and it's peoples over you're own unless you're clearly benefiting from it too. That's called negotiating and cherry picking what's best. And quite rightly in my opinion.

I suspect you'll find that it'll be the EU that will tell the UK what sort of deal they can have and not the other way around.So no cherry-picking I'm afraid.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/01/tony-blair-pm-has-no-hope-of-achieving-brexit-aims

A question for all you Brexiteers out there.Do you really think that achieving a hard Brexit (ie taking the UK out of the single market and customs union) at the expense of ending the Good Friday agreement would be a price worth paying?

 

[callan]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/01/tony-blair-pm-has-no-hope-of-achieving-brexit-aims

A question for all you Brexiteers out there.Do you really think that achieving a hard Brexit (ie taking the UK out of the single market and customs union) at the expense of ending the Good Friday agreement would be a price worth paying?

If the UK were not to put up a border, and leave the Customs union and Single market....What would the EU do...is the question perhaps you need to ask Barna :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If the UK were not to put up a border, and leave the Customs union and Single market....What would the EU do...is the question perhaps you need to ask Barna :winking:

The obvious answer to that, is that the EU would be left to impose and control any border.Doubt if they will though.Why should they?


I notice that you haven't answered my question,btw.

While you're here. have a go at explaining "managed convergence" to us.:winking:

 

[callan]

The obvious answer to that, is that the EU would be left to impose and control any border.Doubt if they will though.Why should they?


I notice that you haven't answered my question,btw.

While you're here. have a go at explaining "managed convergence" to us.:winking:

In which case it is the EU that threatens the Good friday agreement not the UK.

As far as managed convergence is concerned - probably best explained as follows (an idiots guide just for you :smile:)

Currently both the EU and UK are fully aligned with all rules, regulation etc and are considered 'converged'...this will remain the case until a point in time (possibly in transition) that either party may want divergence from the other...so in reality it is a way of describing change and how best to manage it.

So in other words harmony must be achieved going forward...generally the following options are considered in an agreement;

Neutral body to adjudicate on dispute - unlikely to happen and difficult for EU to implement under current treaty.

Explicit Subservience - One party follows the rules of the other.

Subservience by disguise - Where the subservient partner is allowed to depart from instruction of the other.

A footnote here is that generally speaking UK have higher standards than most other entities including the EU themselves, but we could not force a higher standard on any party than that which we have domestically ourselves.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I see Nadine Dorries has covered herself in glory once again by calling John Major a 'traitor'.

That words seems to get thrown around a little too readily these days. Questioning Brexit does not equal treachery.

 

[callan]

I see Nadine Dorries has covered herself in glory once again by calling John Major a 'traitor'.

That words seems to get thrown around a little too readily these days. Questioning Brexit does not equal treachery.

I thought the reference was to his lack of loyalty towards Theresa May, rather than Brexit?

Major himself has form himself here....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

In which case it is the EU that threatens the Good friday agreement not the UK

.

I think you'll find it was the UK that unilaterally decided to leave the EU (and not the other way around).That makes the UK responsible for any consequences of a failure to reach agreement with the EU in the Brexit talks.

As far as managed convergence is concerned - probably best explained as follows (an idiots guide just for you :smile:)

Currently both the EU and UK are fully aligned with all rules, regulation etc and are considered 'converged'...this will remain the case until a point in time (possibly in transition) that either party may want divergence from the other...so in reality it is a way of describing change and how best to manage it.

So in other words harmony must be achieved going forward...generally the following options are considered in an agreement;

Neutral body to adjudicate on dispute - unlikely to happen and difficult for EU to implement under current treaty.

Explicit Subservience - One party follows the rules of the other.

Subservience by disguise - Where the subservient partner is allowed to depart from instruction of the other.

A footnote here is that generally speaking UK have higher standards than most other entities including the EU themselves, but we could not force a higher standard on any party than that which we have domestically ourselves

.

Thanks for your "idiots guide" to "managed convergence." Expect some fallout from Labour and the EU this weekend, after Mrs May's speech about this tomorrow.:winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I thought the reference was to his lack of loyalty towards Theresa May, rather than Brexit?

Major himself has form himself here....

Yes he has a lot of form... as a pro-European.:whistling: