Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

if someone states 'the Brexit **** up is the fault of all politicians' then obviously I will state why I don't believe that to be the case.

You say it's whining but is anything in my post inaccurate?

No, I didn't say it was inaccurate per se. Embellished, tiresome and a repeat of what's been trotted out countless times ad nauseam before by the same usual suspects.

For what it's worth I believe it's the fault of not just May and her cohorts but countless others all too eager to play the domestic politics game and put their own party and personal imperatives before country.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No, I didn't say it was inaccurate per se. Embellished, tiresome and a repeat of what's been trotted out countless times ad nauseam before by the same usual suspects.

For what it's worth I believe it's the fault of not just May and her cohorts but countless others all too eager to play the domestic politics game and put their own party and personal imperatives before country.

'All politicians are to blame for Brexit' will be met with a list of reasons why that is not the case. It's the way these things work. No need to reply to it, the two cancel each other out as both opinions have been aired. It's just for balance.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Another reason I voted leave...

A recent video but the causes and symptoms go back years.

Link

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You really couldn't make this stuff up. Seaborne Freight only existed on paper as a start up business with no assets and no ships or ferries. There must have been an almighty backhander, or some other explanation to give it a £13.8 Million contract. The man behind it already had a dodgy past, knocking shipping firms and the tax man. How did it ever pass the DD test? As time was running out, the penny finally dropped with the Government that they would be nowhere near ready in the case of a no deal Brexit. They still had no assets, no ships and no ferries. This contract was a risk from day one. And yet just a month ago Chris Grayling defended the Seaborne Freight contract, insisting it was "not a risk". Now the government has to start again with only a few weeks to go and find some other shipping firm. Unbelievable.

It's been three days and we were starting to miss it - but ferrygate is back...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47206303

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So, another Tuesday, another statement from May. According to her the talks with the EU have been 'constructive'..............give me another two weeks, she pleads and I may - or may not - be able to achieve the modifications to get my deal through the Commons. Meanwhile the EU remains totally emphatic on the fact it will not re-open negotiations on the withdrawal agreement. 45 DAYS and counting. Buying a bit more time..........resignations avoided, for the moment.
The other end of the pantomime horse the farce is no better and the balancing act is equally stunning. Corbyn claims a second referendum is still on the table.........oooops, careful, you nearly dropped that one Jeremy! He sends his letter to May on a possible united approach to Brexit....... although, apparently it wasn't quite the original...........one small but important amendment.

"It emerged on Monday that an earlier draft of Corbyn’s letter to the prime minister last week, which was initially drawn up by Starmer, included a reference to a referendum, but it was removed during the editing process."

May appears to have flatly rejected any idea of a customs union (party before country, don't you know), so just how long will Corbyn wait for May not to change her mind? I imagine the answer is, as long as it May is willing to wait for the EU to cave in to her demands. Corbyn buys a bit more time and avoids resignations..........for the moment.
Both of them are trying to advance, with two legs bound and one arm tied behind their backs. Both are playing with fire and in the history of time, both risk being badly burnt. As for the future of the country, well who gives a flying f**k?....................neither of them.

 

[blues exile]

Another reason I voted leave...

A recent video but the causes and symptoms go back years.

Link

The first thing to say about the person who produced this video is he is a Canadian named David Quintieri, whom I could find no information about on the internet so not possible to establish his background, qualifications nor motivation. He has been peddling his doom laden theories for some years and self publishes books on the subject. He is very adept at producing reams of statistics, charts, tables etc but unfortunately it is when he makes the leap between factual data and prognosis he simply makes assertions without any evidence. Everything is the fault of the Euro, the project is doomed to fail etc but basically he is just another keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, the only difference between the rest of us is that he is presumably making money out of it.

 

[rigsby]

The first thing to say about the person who produced this video is he is a Canadian named David Quintieri, whom I could find no information about on the internet so not possible to establish his background, qualifications nor motivation. He has been peddling his doom laden theories for some years and self publishes books on the subject. He is very adept at producing reams of statistics, charts, tables etc but unfortunately it is when he makes the leap between factual data and prognosis he simply makes assertions without any evidence. Everything is the fault of the Euro, the project is doomed to fail etc but basically he is just another keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, the only difference between the rest of us is that he is presumably making money out of it.

What a surprise. Another link that doesn't pass the Guardian test.

Why don't you try and explain how the likes of Italy will get out of their debt. Obviously you cant, like all rermoners (different to remainers) you ignore the elephant in the room. Good job the majority of the people in the country you hate most can understand this.....Its school boy math.

That's why the EU has already failed, The question is how long before the ship sinks. Some are to dumb to not notice or more to the point unable to face reality because its not what they want.

 

[GBJ]

A government would need to enact the process of leaving. That's not party political it's a fact. The referendum decision is firstly do I want to leave and secondly do I think the government of the day can make that happen and for leaving still to be beneficial. Common sense surely.

Nobody, not even Barna, could have predicted at the time of voting, that May would end up sailing the good ship Brexit.

I mean, we get it, you don’t like Tories. But how this has gone, and how it could have gone are variables which would have been nigh-on impossible to predict.

You’re just going on instinct, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s just not a factual thing either.

Tories called the referendum.

Tories lied through the campaign.

Tories had no plans for how to leave.

Tory Prime Minister who called the referendum quit.

Tories went to court, called an election 3 years early, argued among themselves, anything and everything they could think of to distract them from getting in with the job in hand.

Tory Brexit secretary quit then the Foreign Secretary quit then the new Brexit secretary quit.

Tories were the first party ever to be found in contempt of Parliament and their Brexit deal was the biggest ever governmental defeat in Parliament.

Tory Leavers Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are now on different sides of the 'what Brexit means' debate.

Tory PM, with a little over a month to go is still trying to get her deal though Parliament despite the 230 vote loss.

If Labour or LibDems or UKIP or anyone else had been in charge of this it would have been done differently.

Brexit outcome on 29th March whether it is a success or a failure is 100% down to the Tories.

Oh. I’ve been hearing for years that it was Nigel Farage’s fault.

Or was it rise of the right-wing, the xenophobics & the racists?

Or the Media. That pesky Murdoch controlling the papers & TV, infiltrating our subconscious, for his own gain.

No, I’m sure it was the oldies & Little Englanders amoung us, who were just plain anti-EU, and opposed to anything German.

 

[GBJ]

'All politicians are to blame for Brexit' will be met with a list of reasons why that is not the case

Two questions:

1) Do you think Corbyn has honestly done everything he possibly could have done, in order to help the country, during his reign? Or in other words, do you think he’s played party politics at any juncture.

2) Do you think that if the other parties had better public appeal with regards to their leaders, (i.e. appeared as stronger, non-traitorous etc) Do you think this whole saga would be in the exact same situation as it is now?

 

[GBJ]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47196387

I defy anyone to suggest that this latest news about the UK economy is not Brexit related.

It’s worth pointing out that the growth of global economy is also down on previous forecasts.

The America-China Trade War, Italy in recession, interest rates on the rise, are all contributing factors.

Whilst Brexit can be classed as a factor, it can’t be classed as the factor.

Don’t let your opinion of Brexit, shroud the facts.

 

[blues exile]

What a surprise. Another link that doesn't pass the Guardian test.

Why don't you try and explain how the likes of Italy will get out of their debt. Obviously you cant, like all rermoners (different to remainers) you ignore the elephant in the room. Good job the majority of the people in the country you hate most can understand this.....Its school boy math.

That's why the EU has already failed, The question is how long before the ship sinks. Some are to dumb to not notice or more to the point unable to face reality because its not what they want.

Italy has a long history of financial crises which predate the Euro and the EU. How do you suppose leaving the Euro wouldmake any difference?
What on earth are you talking about when you state 'the country you hate most'? Perhaps you would care to explain or justify such an assertion. The England I love is totally different from your militaristic, colonial and insular little island certainly.

 

[Bielzibubz]

What a surprise. Another link that doesn't pass the Guardian test.

Why don't you try and explain how the likes of Italy will get out of their debt. Obviously you cant, like all rermoners (different to remainers) you ignore the elephant in the room. Good job the majority of the people in the country you hate most can understand this.....Its school boy math.

That's why the EU has already failed, The question is how long before the ship sinks. Some are to dumb to not notice or more to the point unable to face reality because its not what they want.

Although the tones a bit harsh I couldn't agree more with the facts. Italy is teetering and it's anyone's guess how the EU will be able to deal with it without once again coming up with some clever Ponzi scheme that contradicts and defies their own financial charter.

 

[GBJ]

The England I love is totally different from your militaristic, colonial and insular little island certainly.

Depends on how long you’ve been an exile for.

The England you love, may not be the same England that we live in.

 

[Bielzibubz]

The first thing to say about the person who produced this video is he is a Canadian named David Quintieri, whom I could find no information about on the internet so not possible to establish his background, qualifications nor motivation. He has been peddling his doom laden theories for some years and self publishes books on the subject. He is very adept at producing reams of statistics, charts, tables etc but unfortunately it is when he makes the leap between factual data and prognosis he simply makes assertions without any evidence. Everything is the fault of the Euro, the project is doomed to fail etc but basically he is just another keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, the only difference between the rest of us is that he is presumably making money out of it.

Very eloquently and succinctly put and all makes you sound very intelligent. Unfortunately it's complete bollocks too. Those facts and graphs you speak of, he didn't make them up. They all came from respected sources.

Anyway, you were on the list so back you go, toodle pip n all that comrade

 

[blues exile]

Very eloquently and succinctly put and all makes you sound very intelligent. Unfortunately it's complete bollocks too. Those facts and graphs you speak of, he didn't make them up. They all came from respected sources.

Anyway, you were on the list so back you go, toodle pip n all that comrade

If you had bothered to read my post properly, you would have seen that the main thrust of it was that I did not dispute his data but queried the conclusions he drew. Some people believe what they want to believe, obviously

 

[GBJ]

Very eloquently and succinctly put and all makes you sound very intelligent. Unfortunately it's complete bollocks too. Those facts and graphs you speak of, he didn't make them up. They all came from respected sources.

Anyway, you were on the list so back you go, toodle pip n all that comrade

This was my favourite part...

The first thing to say about the person who produced this video is he is a Canadian named David Quintieri, whom I could find no information about on the internet so not possible to establish his background, qualifications nor motivation.

An admission that he has no idea who the person is....

He has been peddling his doom laden theories for some years and self publishes books on the subject. He is very adept at producing reams of statistics, charts, tables etc but unfortunately it is when he makes the leap between factual data and prognosis he simply makes assertions without any evidence. Everything is the fault of the Euro, the project is doomed to fail etc but basically he is just another keyboard warrior with a bee in his bonnet, the only difference between the rest of us is that he is presumably making money out of it.

.... but is absolutely positive that it’s all doom laden theories from a keyboard warrior who’s simply got a bee in his bonnet.

Now that’s logic that can’t be taught.

 

[blues exile]

Depends on how long you’ve been an exile for.

The England you love, may not be the same England that we live in.

Three years if that is relevant. I certainly do not love the bigotry, the insularity and the implicit racism that the likes of Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg have given a veneer of respectability to.

 

[blues exile]

This was my favourite part...



An admission that he has no idea who the person is....



.... but is absolutely positive that it’s all doom laden theories from a keyboard warrior who’s simply got a bee in his bonnet.

Now that’s logic that can’t be taught.

Before giving credence to anything I see on the internet I like to know something about the person, to be able to judge if he is worth taking seriously. In the case of this person, apart from his self promotion there is nothing available to suggest he is of any repute or status, just the same as you or me hence my judgement. No doubt his data is accurate, it's his prognosis that is the question.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Depends on how long you’ve been an exile for.

The England you love(d), may not be the same England that we live in.

Sadly, I think there have never been truer words said on this thread. Unfortunately, you can't turn the clock back. That's a fact Brexiters would do well to remember.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Sadly, I think there have never been truer words said on this thread. Unfortunately, you can't turn the clock back. That's a fact Brexiters would do well to remember.

It's also a fact that certain sections of the Greek, Irish, Italian, Portugese and Spanish populations also understand only too well.