Dale farm evictions "may breach human rights"

[OldBlueLady]

Echo today reports that lots of anarchists are heading to Dale Farm, you can really see this becoming a completely unmanageable task the longer it goes on. Ok, they seem to have given them a week's grace because of one old lady that needs an electrically powered nebuliser......why did they not just remove the lady and then cut the electricity as they originally intended? If she refused to go, then that would have been her choice. Incidentally, I wonder how much of the electricity is legally connected? :unsure:

 

[Shrimper]

Echo today reports that lots of anarchists are heading to Dale Farm, you can really see this becoming a completely unmanageable task the longer it goes on. Ok, they seem to have given them a week's grace because of one old lady that needs an electrically powered nebuliser......why did they not just remove the lady and then cut the electricity as they originally intended? If she refused to go, then that would have been her choice. Incidentally, I wonder how much of the electricity is legally connected? :unsure:

I was wondering this too. I wouldn't be surprise if they tape it off from those living their legally. I don't understand as well how one person can prevent the movement of a whole group? Take her out of the way, put her in a Hospital or Care Home and then deal with the rest.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I was wondering this too. I wouldn't be surprise if they tape it off from those living their legally. I don't understand as well how one person can prevent the movement of a whole group? Take her out of the way, put her in a Hospital or Care Home and then deal with the rest.

The caring society has spoken.

 

[canveyshrimper]

The caring society has spoken.

The thing is the authorities are caring about someone by giving her a weeks grace despite the fact she is there illegally.

 

[Nick Prawnby]

This is going to be one mother of an own-goal by the "travelling" "community", now their true colours are revealed.

When this all goes off, what council in their right mind will let travellers anywhere near?

How will these "Kind and gentle" people get a legal site anywhere?

 

[canveyshrimper]

This is going to be one mother of an own-goal by the "travelling" "community", now their true colours are revealed.

When this all goes off, what council in their right mind will let travellers anywhere near?

How will these "Kind and gentle" people get a legal site anywhere?

Short answer is that you'll never know if a parcel of land has been sold to "travellers" or not. The first you'll know is when over the course of a weekend diggers etc turn up and start laying hard core. They've delivered to a council a fait accompli, they're there and what does a council do? Most sites aren't allocated sites, but like most of Dale Farm illegal.

 

[Shrimper]

It's about time this country got hard and tougher on people like this that live illegally, or break the law and seem to think that they can do no wrong. Dale Farm is only one of a number of sites across England and hopefully this will be the start of a campaign to move those on that are living illegally. If they're legal, are paying their bills and have paid for the planning permission then I have no problem with them. This country is too soft and it's about time it toughened up.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

The caring society has spoken.

What do you expect from Basildon & SZ

 

[pickledseal]

It's about time this country got hard and tougher on people like this that live illegally, or break the law and seem to think that they can do no wrong. Dale Farm is only one of a number of sites across England and hopefully this will be the start of a campaign to move those on that are living illegally. If they're legal, are paying their bills and have paid for the planning permission then I have no problem with them. This country is too soft and it's about time it toughened up.

There are lots of people living 'illegally' in this country to all kinds of degrees.

(Just saying, it's not *just* travellers)

 

[Holy Joe]

It's not so much a question as a thinly veiled insult though.

It's also uncanny how often, when someone's genuinely mistaken about certain facets of any situation, that it's construed by others as deliberately peddling lies but not expressed as politely. Which again is a source of slight amusement. For further reference to anything like this, take a look at the readers comments at the online editions of the Daily Mail and the Guardian. It brightens up many a morning.

As for the question at hand, it's pretty irrelevant. It's not my views that were aired. Any information that was broadcast came from the people involved at Dale Farm. I'm the guy that phones the police.

I'm not talking about anything being broadcast. Earlier in the the thread you stated that all the travellers were being evicted - even the legal ones - just wondering where you got that from as I don't think it's true. I don't think I've accused you of anything or been rude either!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://gu.com/p/3xj6m

Now the UN has stepped in to condemn the Dale Farm evictions.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What do you expect from Basildon & SZ

Not a lot.:winking:
Interesting that Basilidon Council are using a coalition grant to finance the evictions though.
"The eviction is being subsidised by the coalition government with a communities department grant of £1.2m for Basildon council and up to £4.65m for the Essex police Operation Cabinet from the Home Office." The Guardian.(02/09/2011)
That would appear to be good news for Basildon's Tory Council and the Old Bill.No cuts for them.Evictions are evidently good business for some.

 

[osymandus]

To be fair osy I don't think that Grouty was condoning what David "Jed" Stone did, but pointing out the family were by and large good at heart. I remember the incident that GHG refers to well, but my memory is slightly different, in that Jed had had a row with the guy over a girl friend. We were in the Woodmans on the Saturday night and Jed steamed in heavily under the influence of alcohol, and saying he was going to shoot someone. He stewed for a while in the bar, had a few more drinks before leaving still muttering what he was about to do. We thought no more of it and left at closing time. When I got up the next morning I switched on the radio as normal just in time to catch the news and how the police were looking for a person who had shot & killed someone in Thundersley the previous night, my blood ran cold with shock. They caught up with him and as GHG says he was imprisoned but escaped twice and got away a third time and hasn't be recaptured, although rumours abound over his whereabouts.

Going back to Thundersley, Hadleigh and my youth, there were two other gypsy families of note, the Middletons in Thundersly & the Millers in Hadleigh. The Middletons lived really close by to me and I went to Dark Lane with the youngest brother Pat, who at age 10 had fists like legs of lamb and was always scrapping. His elder brother IIRC was John, and he was another big bloke who wouldn't back out of a scrap. The point is really with these families, was although they were rough & ready they did actually want to be part of the community, and were accepted accordingly.

It appears to me that all the residents of Dale Farm I've heard interviewed are all Irish diddicoys, and if they want to travel there's plenty of space in Ireland to travel in, why come to the UK and "travel"? The word travellers in this respect is a complete misnomer.

Oh i wasn't accusing GHG of tht I just wondered why people could condone it as it was a romanticist notion of Rom doing it but teh anti-social behaviour of pikies (which are still wrong ) are perceived as worse ?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Short answer is that you'll never know if a parcel of land has been sold to "travellers" or not. The first you'll know is when over the course of a weekend diggers etc turn up and start laying hard core. They've delivered to a council a fait accompli, they're there and what does a council do? Most sites aren't allocated sites, but like most of Dale Farm illegal.[/QUOTE]

Round about half of the dwellings there(according to what I've read)don't have planning permission.

"Dale Farm was started in the 1970s when Basildon District Council gave planning permission to 40 families. The entirety of Dale Farm, legal and unauthorised now contains about 100 families." WIKI.

In any case the key point seems to me that the Travellers own the land at Dale Farm, its just that they don't have planning permission for structures to be built there.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Short answer is that you'll never know if a parcel of land has been sold to "travellers" or not. The first you'll know is when over the course of a weekend diggers etc turn up and start laying hard core. They've delivered to a council a fait accompli, they're there and what does a council do? Most sites aren't allocated sites, but like most of Dale Farm illegal.[/QUOTE]

Round about half of the dwellings there(according to what I've read)don't have planning permission.

"Dale Farm was started in the 1970s when Basildon District Council gave planning permission to 40 families. The entirety of Dale Farm, legal and unauthorised now contains about 100 families." WIKI.

In any case the key point seems to me that the Travellers own the land at Dale Farm, its just that they don't have planning permission for structures to be built there.

Nobody is disputing the rights of the people and buildings that are there legally. However the 100 families who have built on the land without planning permission are there illegally. The "travellers" at Dale Farm and other illegal sites up and down the country have presented various councils a fait accompli wherein they've built without permission and in the hope that councils will not take action in evicting them. IMO Basildon and other councils should take the bull by the horns and remove them and tear down the illegally built structures.

I'm still baffled by the use of the word traveller, surely a misnomer when they seem to be a permanent fixture rather than the transient people the word would imply.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Oh i wasn't accusing GHG of tht I just wondered why people could condone it as it was a romanticist notion of Rom doing it but teh anti-social behaviour of pikies (which are still wrong ) are perceived as worse ?

Yes I know you weren't osy.

 

[OldBlueLady]

The thing that is getting people most annoyed though surely is that these people only see fit to use the law when it's to their benefit. I thought it was only a matter of time before the EU got brought into it, now it's the UN I fully expect further delaying tactics to be employed. The ruling should've been fully implemented on Wednesday. The old lady with the nebuliser the same as everyone else there knew full well when the eviction notices came into effect - their ignoring of them is just to delay things as we are now seeing.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Nobody is disputing the rights of the people and buildings that are there legally. However the 100 families who have built on the land without planning permission are there illegally. The "travellers" at Dale Farm and other illegal sites up and down the country have presented various councils a fait accompli wherein they've built without permission and in the hope that councils will not take action in evicting them. IMO Basildon and other councils should take the bull by the horns and remove them and tear down the illegally built structures.

I'm still baffled by the use of the word traveller, surely a misnomer when they seem to be a permanent fixture rather than the transient people the word would imply.

They do however own the land they're living on at Dale Farm.IMO, Basildon Council should offer to provide "culturally appropriate accommodation" for the travellers before evictions are carried out, rather than just Council houses and flats,as they have done so far.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

There are lots of people living 'illegally' in this country to all kinds of degrees.

(Just saying, it's not *just* travellers)

I'm sure you're quite right.But that includes just 20% of Gypsies and Travellers.
"Just over 3,000 Gypsies and Travellers – less than 20% of those still living in caravans – live on unauthorised sites in England."The Guardian 02/09/2011.

 

[Shrimper]

They do however own the land they're living on at Dale Farm.IMO, Basildon Council should offer to provide "culturally appropriate accommodation" for the travellers before evictions are carried out, rather than just Council houses and flats,as they have done so far.

They don't want to live in houses though, I'm pretty sure they've stated that at points. Also, they're travellers, that means they move on after a set amount of time, they've had 10 years to **** off, it's too long and they're a stain on this county and hardly help with the stereotypes that are perceived.