Favourite manager for SUFC

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,19:15)]true But matt if sombody pushed a whole wad of cash infront of you which ment quite a bit of financial security for your nearest and dearest would you have cut and run (not in the same mannor but just the fact of leaving)

As much as it pains me to admit it, if it weren't for the league positions, then for a non-Southend fan (i.e. Fry) it's a no-brainer. Brum every time.

However, the league positions surely didn't make it a completely straight-forward decision? There was only one club with a chance of challenging for the Premier$hite that season, and it wasn't the one in the West Midlands...

As Fry readily admits now, when he walked out of the doors of Roots Hall he blew, in retrospect, the only small chance he ever had of managing in this country's top flight.

He would have been a hero at our club - lionised, adored, given the freedom of the town - and he would have got that permanent kudos, of having managed a Premier$hite team. I genuinely believe he could have taken us up, as well... we were an awesome outfit for a while under him, especially with Ricky Otto on fire.

Instead, he walked out on us, broke our hearts and ended up taking Brum down. For what? Some more cash, and the sack a couple of years later once they became settled in mid-table Div 1.

Now he's just loved by a few elderly Barnet fans, and a few forgiving types at Roots Hall. The Brum fans look on him as a passing phase, something of a mistake; and he is reviled at Posh.

Doesn't look such a straightforward choice now, does it?

Matt

 

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Jan. 18 2005,11:04)]We could categorise Tilson as a mediocre manager right now,

Could we?

I think you must be being ironic. All managers are judged by their records. As posted before Tilly so far ranks as the fourth best manager of all time behind Thompson, Fry and Webb. Thompson did fantastically well to keep us up but was only in charge for less than half a season, Fry was exciting but of course deserted us, and Webby is the only manager to get us to the promied land of the old second division.
So far Tilson has kept us out of the conference after taking over a demoralised team going down and to our first proper final at the milennium stadium. We are now fourth. What more can the man do?
However my favouritre manager is Dave Smith. And don't forget the team were relegated before we won the 4th division champioship. If he lived in todays times he would have undoubtedly been sacked and we may never have won it.

 

[TrueBlue]

Yes but Matt the fact he admits his mistake must make you think that you would have him back!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,19:29)]Yes but Matt the fact he admits his mistake must make you think that you would have him back!

Nope, not now.

Tilly or Fat Judas? Now that really is a no-brainer.

Tilly & Brushy any day of the week!! Seriously, they're the best duo we've had in bloody ages, and even if we do nothing this year - either in the league or the LDV, I sincerely hope that they're given a damn good crack of the whip next year as well.

Matt

 

[TrueBlue]

noooo take the tilly and brush factor away and our current position just ur average southend 3rd division season..... then what?

 

[Technician]

Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ Jan. 18 2005,19:27)]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Jan. 18 2005,11:04)]We could categorise Tilson as a mediocre manager right now,

Could we?

I think you must be being ironic. All managers are judged by their records. As posted before Tilly so far ranks as the fourth best manager of all time behind Thompson, Fry and Webb. Thompson did fantastically well to keep us up but was only in charge for less than half a season, Fry was exciting but of course deserted us, and Webby is the only manager to get us to the promied land of the old second division.
So far Tilson has kept us out of the conference after taking over a demoralised team going down and to our first proper final at the milennium stadium. We are now fourth. What more can the man do?
However my favouritre manager is Dave Smith. And don't forget the team were relegated before we won the 4th division champioship. If he lived in todays times he would have undoubtedly been sacked and we may never have won it.

You can't surely be implying that Steve Tilson is a great manager (at his peak) already? He has ONLY had one year at the helm of this club and is still basically a rookie learning his trade. That's why he sometimes struggles to come up with the right decisions.

I agree that mediocre is perhaps a little harsh, but I didn't say he was that exactly!!! read my original post again (slower!).

I have to concede that his (and Paul's) record is very good, but then I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who have lived and breathed Southend United for close to 2 decades!

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,19:15)]true But matt if sombody pushed a whole wad of cash infront of you which ment quite a bit of financial security for your nearest and dearest would you have cut and run (not in the same mannor but just the fact of leaving)

The club stated at the time, and Fry has since confirmed it (in my hearing on Radio 5, though the idiot presenter didn't believe him) that they had offered to match any contract that Brum offered him, pound for pound and length wise. He told the board that he would stay, and the next day he was at Brum slagging off our team.

Some on here would tell you that they don't blame people for looking after No1, and that any player of manager is entitled to behave in any deceitful, lying way they like and that is OK.

I beg to differ.

 

[C'mon you Blues]

I've read it very slowly and still don't understand the "mediocre" comment. Statistically he is the fourth most successful manager of all time and that's a fact. Better than Harry Warren, better than Dave Smith better than God Bless Arthur Rowley. This does indeed bode well for the future as Tilly is Southend through and through and won't jump ship if successful (at least i hope he doesn't although everyone has their price).

 

[TrueBlue]

Don't forget as a manager you have no ties no support for the club!

 

[footymad13]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Jan. 18 2005,18:12)]"Southend are a club going nowhere."

I agree with most of the comments about Fry, did fantastic with us but his a lier and a fraud. end of

However, i dislike Jobson even more than Fry and unfortunatly Fry may have been right about this one comment.

Would i have him back ? No, Tilson is doing a grand job and has shown loyalty.

 

[TrueBlue]

Quote[/b] ]has shown loyalty

But is that only because nobody else has said 'heres some cash come manage us?' time will tell!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,20:05)]

Quote[/b] ]has shown loyalty

But is that only because nobody else has said 'heres some cash come manage us?' time will tell!

Oh, come on Scott!!

Tilly bleeds the blue of Southend. He was offered a wadge of cash and a Premier$hite contract with Coventry whilst at Roots Hall (there was talk of a £1m swoop in the 1991-2 season), and he turned it down because we're the only club he ever wanted to play for.

And even though he was happy at Canvey, and still enjoying playing... when his first love, the mighty SUFC, came calling - he came home.

I just can't imagine Tilly running off and joining someone else. If we play our cards right - in other words, if the fans and Ron are patient - then in Tilly & Brushy, we could have unearthed an Essex answer to Dario Gradi and Crewe (and look where they are now, scooping £3m for the likes of Ashton).

They want to manage us; we want them to manage us; they're doing a bloody good job... what's the problem?!

C'mon, as much as we all like a debate, I cannot possibly countenance having anyone other than Tilly & Brushy as our number 1 & 2 for the next 2 years at the very least... and, ideally, not for the next 20 years.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,19:59)]Don't forget as a manager you have no ties no support for the club!

Judas didn't, Tilly does... end of, surely?

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,19:45)]noooo take the tilly and brush factor away and our current position just ur average southend 3rd division season..... then what?

But why take away that factor?  They are here, they're doing a superb job.  Again, end of, surely?

If you're asking me to consider, in a vacuum, whether I'd want Judas back... the answer is still "no".  Have you not seen how miserable the Posh fans are?  Have you not seen their declining attendances and their slide down the table?

Something ain't right there, and he's called Barry "Judas" Fry.  Even without Tilly and Brush, I wouldn't want him back.

And with them... well, frankly, it's a preposterous suggestion.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

I seem to remember that when Wignall was sacked there was a lot of discussion as to the new manager amongst the fans.

I don't think I heard any of them suggesting Barry Fry, even though we were managerless, near the bottom of the league, and seemingly heading for oblivion.

As for the loyalty thing, well, no, he had no ties to the club, and if he'd have gone for more money, or to further his career, we'd all have hated him but lived with it. However, there was no need to be two faced about it, that was just stupid.

Example, Mark Rawle claims he's staying, then signs for another team. Leon Cort makes no such claim and also leaves for another team.

Both left to further their careers, which one do we hate, and why?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (swanseashrimper @ Jan. 18 2005,20:52)]However, there was no need to be two faced about it, that was just stupid.

Example, Mark Rawle claims he's staying, then signs for another team. Leon Cort makes no such claim and also leaves for another team.

Both left to further their careers, which one do we hate, and why?

As one of the two boys said on that Milk advert:

Ex-akkkhh-ly!

 

[TrueBlue]

Quote[/b] ] Dario Gradi and Crewe

Do you think Crewe fans are bored with Gradi do they think hes taken the club as far as he can?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Jan. 18 2005,21:08)]

Quote[/b] ] Dario Gradi and Crewe

Do you think Crewe fans are bored with Gradi do they think hes taken the club as far as he can?

Are you nuts? Top half of The Championship, with all the money-men swilling around that league?

Gradi is a demi-god in Crewe. One fan loved him so much, that the band he formed, he called... Dario G.

So, no - they aren't bored of him; and that's because they know that he's taken their club further than any of them ever had a right to expect...

Matt

 

[Suffolk Shrimper In Dorset]

Can't believe the posts on this thread so far:

Webb: got us success but at our peak threw his toys out of the pram when we were top dogs instead of being a real Southend man. Unforgiveable.
Fry: judas.
Tilly: ok, and I'll support him, but at the end of the day he just seems be be missing a spark.
The rest: as I think has been recognised, wasters....bar one:

DAVID SMITH

A true gent, brought in quality (ok, bar Alan Foggon but a mistake or two is acceptable) on a limited budget (as with all SUFC managers bar Whelan), acheived our best ever promotion season and to date only league trophy, played good football (remember Laverick and Otolukowski?), and always available to meet the fans.

His reward from Jobson was to get kicked out and he had to protest to get his salary owed him so I understand.

He then turned up at Plymouth where I was at Uni and Smiffy had a great time there, again achieving promotion (from Div 3) and to this day is revered at Home Park. I wrote to him on his arrival there, introduced myself as a SUFC fan and duly got free tickets to a Plymouth game and met him again, which I must admit got me hooked on Argyle for a bit (to be fare 250 miles to Roots was a tad too far on a poxy grant). He always attended fans functions.

A top man. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[HUMBLEPIE]

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Shrimper @ Jan. 18 2005,22:29)]DAVID SMITH

A true gent, brought in quality (ok, bar Alan Foggon but a mistake or two is acceptable) on a limited budget (as with all SUFC managers bar Whelan), acheived our best ever promotion season and to date only league trophy, played good football (remember Laverick and Otolukowski?), and always available to meet the fans.

His reward from Jobson was to get kicked out and he had to protest to get his salary owed him so I understand.

He then turned up at Plymouth where I was at Uni and Smiffy had a great time there, again achieving promotion (from Div 3) and to this day is revered at Home Park. I wrote to him on his arrival there, introduced myself as a SUFC fan and duly got free tickets to a Plymouth game and met him again, which I must admit got me hooked on Argyle for a bit (to be fare 250 miles to Roots was a tad too far on a poxy grant). He always attended fans functions.

A top man. Nothing more, nothing less.

I might be wrong and Jobson gets blamed for most things but sacking Dave Smith wasn't one of them, I would hazard a guess it was either the Rubin brothers or Johnson....Jobson didn't come on the scene until Johnson had bankrupted the club.
Dave Smith would always get my vote we played great football, unearthed some very good players, one season we were even in the promotion hunt from old Div 3 and for that he got the sack.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Shrimper @ Jan. 18 2005,22:29)]Webb: got us success but at our peak threw his toys out of the pram when we were top dogs instead of being a real Southend man. Unforgiveable.

Hmm... very swift to judge, Suffolk Blue.  Does anyone on here (other than the man in the Pram shop, perhaps...) really know the full circumstances behind Webby & Jobson's bust-up?

I know I don't.  I'd be amazed if anyone did.

Let's not forget, after all, that when we were still in the Div 2 playoff zone in January, Jobson told Webb that his contract would not be renewed in the summer.  That much we all know.  So Jobson pulled the rug out from under our season by (effectively) sacking Webb.

Even if we don't know the reasons behind Jobson doing that, your statement still seems more than a little harsh.  The facts remain that:

*Webb took this club to its zenith at Bury, and then again on 1st January 1992.

*Jobson sacked Webb... Webby didn't walk out on us.

And for that (plus the fact that, as I've said elsewhere, I wasn't a Southend fan before 1990, so I don't really know about the time before Webb), Webby will remain this club's greatest manager in my eyes.

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Shrimper @ Jan. 18 2005,22:29)]Tilly: ok, and I'll support him, but at the end of the day he just seems be be missing a spark.

As for your comments on Tilly... crumbs.  Of the 20 league games since our season properly got on track on August 30th, with our victory over Macc Town, we've won 11 of those games.  That's over half.  Wignall left us in the bottom 3 of the division. Tilly has got us 4th.  Tilly took this club to its first ever Cup Final, and beat the Scum en route.  And then, for good measure, beat the Scum again this season.

But he's... OK?  Missing a spark?

Heck, I'm going to stick my neck out... and say - sorry, you're wrong.  Not "it's a difference of opinion".  But that, on any objective basis, you are plainly and simply wrong.

Where have you been for the last 6 or 7 years... as this club has stuttered in the bottom flight under Wignall, Newman, Webb's third stint, Alan Little, the Chipmunk?

If you can't appreciate the fact that Tilly & Brush have turned round a failing club into one that now operates at a profit (absent pre-existing debt issues), one that now has an average gate of 5,154 - its highest in the best part of a decade - and one that is now sitting 4th in the league, then I genuinely think that there's something wrong with you.

I'm enjoying this whilst it lasts.  It's a shame that you appear not to be able to appreciate the remarkable things that seem to me to be plainly happening at Roots Hall right now.

Matt