French presidential election 2017

[yogi bear up the cagire]

JUDGEMENT DAY

Nearly thirty years in France and I've never faced a Presidential Election like this one. Normally it's the centre-left or the centre-right who alternate in power like box and cox. This time the scenario risks being radically altered. There are five main candidates and if the polls are anywhere near correct, only four who have a chance of qualifying for the second round. The official socialist candidate (aka Corbyn) is so far behind that he can be discounted......so who's left?

FILLON

The official right wing candidate.....calling him centre right, would be stretching the truth........he is a hard right, Thatcherite, with a strong catholic streak. (bye bye women's rights) So, five years of austerity, running down social services, privatising. Favouring big business and widening the divide between rich and poor. Creating lower unemployment by creating crap jobs (zero hour contracts) a vast reduction in worker's rights. One of the main reasons I left the UK was to get away from Thatcher!.....no thanks!!!

LE PEN and MELENCHON

What on earth am I doing grouping these two together?......extreme-right and extreme-left. Well, read their programmes and you would be surprised just how much they resemble each other. These two are far closer to each other than they are to the centre. Both with euro skeptic and protectionist ideas, which would savage the economy. True, there are things in both these candidates programmes that I like but the disaster I believe either of them would be for France and Europe is frightening.

Le Pen's façade of a sanitised FN is unbelievable apart from to those blind and gullible. Her presence last year in Germany at a conference for fascists and racists, let the mask slip. Her stepping back from admitting guilt of the French state in roundind up and deporting jews in the second-world war, let's a little more light in on who exactly are the FN. Daech would certainly vote FN, in promoting fear, hate and conflict between France and its muslim population. Normally, my tendence to the left would lead me to sympathise more with Mélenchon.........it doesn't. Apart from disagreement with his programme I fear something of the dictator behind this charismatic and amusing façade. Someone who has supported Chavez and what he has done to Venezuela, sets my alarm bells ringing.

MACRON

Young, charismatic but without the backing of an established party. A message of hope rather than one of fear and hate. The right claim he is on the left (citing him being a minister in Hollande's government). The left will claim he is on the right (from his banking background, which allowed him to accumulate wealth)........he would claim he is neither. Probably no radical solutions or promises here but a relooking of everything in the hope of creating a more dynamic and fairer society.




Is there really a choice???????

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

JUDGEMENT DAY

Nearly thirty years in France and I've never faced a Presidential Election like this one. Normally it's the centre-left or the centre-right who alternate in power like box and cox. This time the scenario risks being radically altered. There are five main candidates and if the polls are anywhere near correct, only four who have a chance of qualifying for the second round. The official socialist candidate (aka Corbyn) is so far behind that he can be discounted......so who's left?

FILLON

The official right wing candidate.....calling him centre right, would be stretching the truth........he is a hard right, Thatcherite, with a strong catholic streak. (bye bye women's rights) So, five years of austerity, running down social services, privatising. Favouring big business and widening the divide between rich and poor. Creating lower unemployment by creating crap jobs (zero hour contracts) a vast reduction in worker's rights. One of the main reasons I left the UK was to get away from Thatcher!.....no thanks!!!

LE PEN and MELENCHON

What on earth am I doing grouping these two together?......extreme-right and extreme-left. Well, read their programmes and you would be surprised just how much they resemble each other. These two are far closer to each other than they are to the centre. Both with euro skeptic and protectionist ideas, which would savage the economy. True, there are things in both these candidates programmes that I like but the disaster I believe either of them would be for France and Europe is frightening.

Le Pen's façade of a sanitised FN is unbelievable apart from to those blind and gullible. Her presence last year in Germany at a conference for fascists and racists, let the mask slip. Her stepping back from admitting guilt of the French state in roundind up and deporting jews in the second-world war, let's a little more light in on who exactly are the FN. Daech would certainly vote FN, in promoting fear, hate and conflict between France and its muslim population. Normally, my tendence to the left would lead me to sympathise more with Mélenchon.........it doesn't. Apart from disagreement with his programme I fear something of the dictator behind this charismatic and amusing façade. Someone who has supported Chavez and what he has done to Venezuela, sets my alarm bells ringing.

MACRON

Young, charismatic but without the backing of an established party. A message of hope rather than one of fear and hate. The right claim he is on the left (citing him being a minister in Hollande's government). The left will claim he is on the right (from his banking background, which allowed him to accumulate wealth)........he would claim he is neither. Probably no radical solutions or promises here but a relooking of everything in the hope of creating a more dynamic and fairer society.




Is there really a choice???????

Yes.You vote for who you'd like to win in the first round (as all my family members have done for Mélechon) and against who you don't want to win in the second ie,MLP,so probably for Macron or abstain.

Interestingly,my wife said to me earlier in the week that she wouldn't vote for Fillon, if he made it through to the second round tonight,though she did vote for Chirac (reluctantly) back in 2002.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Yes.You vote for who you'd like to win in the first round (as all my family members have done for Mélechon) and against who you don't want to win in the second ie,MLP,so probably for Macron or abstain.

Interestingly,my wife said to me earlier in the week that she wouldn't vote for Fillon, if he made it through to the second round tonight,though she did vote for Chirac (reluctantly) back in 2002.

In normal times I'd agree with you.............however, these are NOT normal times. If seriously you would wish Mélenchon to be the next President, I would respect your decision but of course, I would strongly disagree with it. The first round is not for playing this time. If you do, you risk not having a palatable choice in the second round. I'm well aware of the risk of a Le Pen against Fillon face-off and I'm aware many socialists would find it quasi impossible to vote for the latter. Thus by playing the game in the First-Round we could well end up with no one we would want as President. Macron may have many faults but sadly it is he who stands between us and a France of chaos, division and instability.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

In normal times I'd agree with you.............however, these are NOT normal times. If seriously you would wish Mélenchon to be the next President, I would respect your decision but of course, I would strongly disagree with it. The first round is not for playing this time. If you do, you risk not having a palatable choice in the second round. I'm well aware of the risk of a Le Pen against Fillon face-off and I'm aware many socialists would find it quasi impossible to vote for the latter. Thus by playing the game in the First-Round we could well end up with no one we would want as President. Macron may have many faults but sadly it is he who stands between us and a France of chaos, division and instability.

The choice between Macron and MLP in the second round is hardly a "palatable" one for anyone on the left.

It is however an historic one, in that it will mean for the first time since De Gaulle set up the 5th Republic in 1958, that neither of France's two main parties will be represented in the second round.

I wish I could share your high opinion of Macron.I think he'll struggle as President without a fully formed party to back his legislative programme.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The choice between Macron and MLP in the second round is hardly a "palatable" one for anyone on the left.

It is however an historic one, in that it will mean for the first time since De Gaulle set up the 5th Republic in 1958, that neither of France's two main parties will be represented in the second round.

I wish I could share your high opinion of Macron.I think he'll struggle as President without a fully formed party to back his legislative programme.

That would surely go for anyone apart from for Fillon............or Hamon, who, of course won't feature in May. About 80% turnout, which is normal.
By the way , who for you, would be a palatable as President?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

?????????????????

 

[Benfleet A1]

Looks like Macron and Le Pen are through. Interesting times in France.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Reports of riots in Paris by the far-left. Nothing like excepting the voice of the people is there.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Looks like Macron and Le Pen are through. Interesting times in France.

Did put it up before 8pm (the official time the result can be declared).......advance info from Belgium. Replaced it with question marks, when I understood that revealing the result early could leave one liable to a large fine! For me the result has provided (following Brexit and Trump) a huge amount of relief and some degree of pleasure. The Lib Dems in the UK will no doubt be happy as well............it won't do them any harm. Of course, it's not won yet for Macron but I'd have to fancy his chances more of becoming President, than us reaching the Championship this season. :smile:

 

[Pubey]

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That would surely go for anyone apart from for Fillon............or Hamon, who, of course won't feature in May. About 80% turnout, which is normal.
By the way , who for you, would be a palatable as President?

I can't vote (quite rightly) in French elections, as you know.If I could, I'd probably abstain.

I suspect turnout will be rather less in the second round.

FWIW,my wife will be voting for Macron.Dunno about our daughters yet.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Did put it up before 8pm (the official time the result can be declared).......advance info from Belgium. Replaced it with question marks, when I understood that revealing the result early could leave one liable to a large fine! For me the result has provided (following Brexit and Trump) a huge amount of relief and some degree of pleasure. The Lib Dems in the UK will no doubt be happy as well............it won't do them any harm. Of course, it's not won yet for Macron but I'd have to fancy his chances more of becoming President, than us reaching the Championship this season. :smile:

Assuming that the french polls are a better indicator than our ones ( shouldn't be too difficult) then Macron appears to be almost home and dry. Quite amazing when you consider he has never stood for election before.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Assuming that the french polls are a better indicator than our ones ( shouldn't be too difficult) then Macron appears to be almost home and dry. Quite amazing when you consider he has never stood for election before.

And when you consider that he ran as an independent, without the support of either of France's two major political parties.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

EMMANUEL, GETTING ELECTED PRESIDENT IS THE EASY PART!
Barring a surprise in the second-round which would dwarf both Brexit and Trump's victories, Emmanuel Macron will become President of the French Republic on May the 7th. In a fiercely defended secular society, maybe he would be tempted to quote St Francis of Assis's words, when elected.

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope"… .[fo 1]



Familiar? Of course, they were Thatcher's words on entering Downing Street for the first time.............before she proceeded to trash them for the period of her rule. Macron would do well not to forget them.
I don't personally believe there are over 7 million racist's and fascist's who voted for the Front National. The majority are a section of the population who are so desperate to find a way out of their misery, that they are prepared to give in to their prejudicies and accept the simple (false) solutions, to complex problems, the FN offers them. They won't go away and unless some of their grievences (unemployment, inequality, isolation) are dealt with, we will reap the wrath in five years time.
Protection is no solution to the world's economic problems but neither is a system where beaurocrats, technocrats and big business continue to run the system for their own benefit. Somehow there has to be a fairer way forward, where wealth created has to be more fairly and equally distributed, where people feel more engaged in a society which is propelling them forward and not leaving them in it's wake.
Few so far have wanted to address these problems, Emmanuel Macron needs to fill that void and it won't be easy. Yet failure would be a disaster for France and Europe. You have my heartfelt and sincere good wishes for the future.........don't screw it up!

 

[superblue24]

I don't personally believe there are over 7 million racist's and fascist's who voted for the Front National.

Oh dear, you lefties haven't learned your lesson have you?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Oh dear, you lefties haven't learned your lesson have you?

He's right you know.Plenty of them in Cebazan and Beziers (unfortunately).

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Oh dear, you lefties haven't learned your lesson have you?

and what exactly is that lesson? By lefties I presume you're refering to anyone left of Theresa May?

 

[superblue24]

and what exactly is that lesson? By lefties I presume you're refering to anyone left of Theresa May?

The lesson of not trying to "shame" people into speaking their mind without fear of them being labelled a racist or facist.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The lesson of not trying to "shame" people into speaking their mind without fear of them being labelled a racist or facist.

If you read the post again carefully, you'll understand that's not what I'm saying. To the contrary I'm not labling or shaming the majority who voted FN as racists or fascists (though there are certainly a number of members of the party hierachy and voters who hold distinctly unpleasant extremist views). The majority are a sector of voters who have serious grievences, as I stated above (unemployment, inequality, isolation) and these problems need to be addressed. When this is done the hope is that they will no longer feel the need to support extremist party's like the FN, which, in the end, if you read their policies, would likely worsen the plight of many of those who would vote for them.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

EMMANUEL, GETTING ELECTED PRESIDENT IS THE EASY PART!
Barring a surprise in the second-round which would dwarf both Brexit and Trump's victories, Emmanuel Macron will become President of the French Republic on May the 7th. In a fiercely defended secular society, maybe he would be tempted to quote St Francis of Assis's words, when elected.

"Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope"… .[fo 1]



Familiar? Of course, they were Thatcher's words on entering Downing Street for the first time.............before she proceeded to trash them for the period of her rule. Macron would do well not to forget them.
I don't personally believe there are over 7 million racist's and fascist's who voted for the Front National. The majority are a section of the population who are so desperate to find a way out of their misery, that they are prepared to give in to their prejudicies and accept the simple (false) solutions, to complex problems, the FN offers them. They won't go away and unless some of their grievences (unemployment, inequality, isolation) are dealt with, we will reap the wrath in five years time.
Protection is no solution to the world's economic problems but neither is a system where beaurocrats, technocrats and big business continue to run the system for their own benefit. Somehow there has to be a fairer way forward, where wealth created has to be more fairly and equally distributed, where people feel more engaged in a society which is propelling them forward and not leaving them in it's wake.
Few so far have wanted to address these problems, Emmanuel Macron needs to fill that void and it won't be easy. Yet failure would be a disaster for France and Europe. You have my heartfelt and sincere good wishes for the future.........don't screw it up!

That's certainly something my wife is worried about and I suppose we should all be.