French presidential election 2017

[Bearded Shrimper]

I don't see what that has got to do with the 'Corbyn-ite left'. Anyone that doesn't vote because they assume a particular result are playing a dangerous game - as David Cameron if fully aware, to his cost and to the cost of the rest of the UK

i've just seen, i'd say, a greater tendancy among specifically Corbyn supporters, to (to me) duck difficult or unpalatable choices. I've seen them, in that great phrase, make the perfect the enemy of the good e.g. in their view there is no difference between The PLP and the Tories so they won't vote Labour

 

[Gremlin]

Yep, I suppose MLP would advance feminism about as far as Thatcher did.

You've jumped on another chance to mention Mrs T, have you? I'm sorry if she was the wrong type of tough, successful lady for you.

[/QUOTE]Difficult choice???? I'd refer you back to the rather long article written by the film director Luc Besson. This passage giving his perception of MLP is brilliant and truthful..........


"It's my job to fabricate dreams and bring them to people, but we're not fooling anyone: we tell stories that may be funny or sad, and although we try to make them truthfully, with love and hard work, we never claim that they are real life. I think I can tell a good script and a good actor when I see one.
The film Ms. Le Pen has put together for us is just awful. The script doesn't make sense and it has terrible actors playing not just the lead but also the supporting roles. At a farmers market, for example, Ms. Le Pen tries to make eye contact with the camera at just the right angle before she flashes her publicity-hungry smile. Worst of all, her gaze is miles away. She doesn't give a hoot about the butcher's or farmer's problems. She isn't listening. She's an actress out to steal the scene, forgetting her partner. The art of acting is to infuse an imaginary situation with truth. Ms. Le Pen gets the basics all wrong—in a real situation, she delivers zero truth. Her eyes are devoid of love, compassion or emotion. Her performance is embarrassing."[/QUOTE]

Whilst a film director's take on one of the candidates doesn't mean much to me, it's probably more meaningful to this particular debate than your views on our former PM. I've seen some Luc Besson films and have enjoyed them a lot. If you say it's "brilliant' then it's brilliant to you. And I'm sure it's "truthful" to Monsieur Besson.

I'm still torn between the female and the banker though.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

You've jumped on another chance to mention Mrs T, have you? I'm sorry if she was the wrong type of tough, successful lady for you.

Difficult choice???? I'd refer you back to the rather long article written by the film director Luc Besson. This passage giving his perception of MLP is brilliant and truthful..........


"It's my job to fabricate dreams and bring them to people, but we're not fooling anyone: we tell stories that may be funny or sad, and although we try to make them truthfully, with love and hard work, we never claim that they are real life. I think I can tell a good script and a good actor when I see one.
The film Ms. Le Pen has put together for us is just awful. The script doesn't make sense and it has terrible actors playing not just the lead but also the supporting roles. At a farmers market, for example, Ms. Le Pen tries to make eye contact with the camera at just the right angle before she flashes her publicity-hungry smile. Worst of all, her gaze is miles away. She doesn't give a hoot about the butcher's or farmer's problems. She isn't listening. She's an actress out to steal the scene, forgetting her partner. The art of acting is to infuse an imaginary situation with truth. Ms. Le Pen gets the basics all wrong—in a real situation, she delivers zero truth. Her eyes are devoid of love, compassion or emotion. Her performance is embarrassing."[/QUOTE]

Whilst a film director's take on one of the candidates doesn't mean much to me, it's probably more meaningful to this particular debate than your views on our former PM. I've seen some Luc Besson films and have enjoyed them a lot. If you say it's "brilliant' then it's brilliant to you. And I'm sure it's "truthful" to Monsieur Besson.

I'm still torn between the neofascist and the democrat though.[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid I did have to amend that for correctness. By the way, would you like to list all the things Thatcher did to advance feminism.............apart from being leader. In fact you brought up an interesting line of thought, what would I have done if I was confronted with a choice of voting for Thatcher (who you understand I really hated.....but that's another issue and neither the time nor the place to discuss) or Le Pen?:smile: Well, without hesitation, I would vote for Thatcher..........she may have been many things I detested but she was a DEMOCRAT. Perhaps Barna, with his, theoretic, non backing of Macron, would indicate what he would have done given that choice?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I really could be spoilt for choice in selecting names from the right and left, calling for people to vote for Macron but Robert Badinter is one colossus of a veteran socialist minister. Responsible, in his time, for his fight against capital punishment and liberalising laws discriminating against homosexuality. In response to questions, he gives answers to the coming election, his views on Mélenchon and abstentionism.


http://www.lejdd.fr/politique/rober...cest-favoriser-lelection-de-mmele-pen-3315062

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

the argument is getting a little towards the point of ad nauseam........but it's always good to find one in English, as this one from the Guardian. (and perhaps it can't be repeated enough?)

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ench-election-voting-abstainers-macron-le-pen

 

[Gremlin]

I'm afraid I did have to amend that for correctness. By the way, would you like to list all the things Thatcher did to advance feminism.............apart from being leader. In fact you brought up an interesting line of thought

Since it was you, rather than me, that brought Mrs T into the conversation, I don't feel compelled to begin the list and neither can I lay claim to the interesting line of thought.

Meantime I've opened a book on the number of Thatcher references between now and May 7. How many are you good for?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Since it was you, rather than me, that brought Mrs T into the conversation, I don't feel compelled to begin the list and neither can I lay claim to the interesting line of thought.

Meantime I've opened a book on the number of Thatcher references between now and May 7. How many are you good for?

Hopefully, not that many, the memories are too painful

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Interesting change of emphasis from Macron, making EU reform as a key issue.........in English as well:smile:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39766334#

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Sonia Rolland was voted Miss France in 2000. Here, in French, she explains what insults and threats she suffered following her election and why she voted against the FN in 2002. She expresses her shock that people this time around haven't seen the need to speak out equally strongly against the party, which has only changed its facade but not its basic poisonous message of hate. It's a call on people NOT TO ABSTAIN but to come out and vote against the FN next Sunday. Her and I in common feel ashamed to live in a country where those views are not totally resisted by the huge majority of the population.

[h=6]Sonia Rolland[/h]23 hrs ·

En 2000, au lendemain de mon élection de Miss France, j'ai reçu plus de 2000 lettres d'insultes et de menaces de mort venant des partisans du FN, parce que pour eux, "Je ne représentais pas la France"... On a rayé/inscrit sur ma voiture "sale négresse", sur mon paillasson je retrouvais de la merde de chien ainsi que sur la poignée de porte de mon appartement...
Dans dans des lettres m'étant adressées, les auteurs prenaient le temps d'y mettre de la merde (oui oui de la vraie) en inscrivant "voilà ce que je vois quand je te vois à la télé... retourne dans ton pays" (c'est là que tu réalises que le mec ou la meuf, avait quand même payé un timbre pour m'envoyer ça par la poste...

*). À l'époque j'avais le choix de ne pas en parler, car au fond, c'était offrir une tribune à cette minorité de haineux... (

le constat aujourd'hui est assez terrifiant car avec le temps la discrimination s'exprime de manière totalement décomplexée, et s'installe dans l'inconscient collectif comme une chose banale... on est fier d'être facho, suffit de voir sur les réseaux sociaux!)
En 2002, pour mon premier vote présidentiel, j'eus le choix entre Chirac et Lepen au 2nd tour... comme des millions de gens je suis descendue dans la rue crier mon barrage au FHaine.
Nous sommes en 2017, le visage paraît plus sympathique, la communication plus soignée, le sourire accompagne les promesses de campagne plus sociales, en nous faisant croire qu'elle sera LA voix "du peuple" (mon père ouvrier doit se retourner dans sa tombe

*) mais nous savons tous que le fond, les idéaux du FN et de ses partisans sont toujours aussi nauséabonds & empreints d'un sentiments de pouvoir parce qu'ils seraient plus nombreux qu'avant...
Alors oui on a tendance à en rire, mais moi je n'ai pas envie de rire car parmi eux il y a ceux qui subissent. Ces ouvriers, ces artisans, ces agriculteurs... ce "peuple" en colère, hélas tenté.. Mais c'est aussi "un peuple" des HLM dans lesquels j'ai grandit à Cluny, qui n'a pas hésité à se cotiser (5000 Francs) pour m'envoyer à Miss France.

Le patriotisme n'est pas chasse gardée du FN
Le 7 mai j'irai voter contre Marine Lepen parce que j'aime mon pays

See translation

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The party of Mélenchon has decided not to back either candidate in Sunday's second-round. One of the party leaders, Alexis Corbière struggles with two voters who don't understand or believe the party's stance.
Little point arguing with Mr Corbières, he no doubt has his orders from Mr Poutine. In a similar way to 1930's Germany, Russia's Stalin directed the communists to support Hitler rather than the Social Democrats, they don't want to vote against Le Pen now. Tragic how history just tends to repeat itself.


https://www.facebook.com/LaNouvelleEdition/videos/1540514859306564/?pnref=story

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The party of Mélenchon has decided not to back either candidate in Sunday's second-round. One of the party leaders, Alexis Corbière struggles with two voters who don't understand or believe the party's stance.
Little point arguing with Mr Corbières, he no doubt has his orders from Mr Poutine. In a similar way to 1930's Germany, Russia's Stalin directed the communists to support Hitler rather than the Social Democrats, they don't want to vote against Le Pen now. Tragic how history just tends to repeat itself.


https://www.facebook.com/LaNouvelleEdition/videos/1540514859306564/?pnref=story

Given the choice of voting for a neo-Liberal ex-banker and a fascist,personally I'd just as soon stay at home.My wife,however,will be voting for the Rothchilds candidate.Not our kids though.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Given the choice of voting for a neo-Liberal ex-banker and a fascist,personally I'd just as soon stay at home.My wife,however,will be voting for the Rothchilds candidate.Not our kids though.

NO! Barna the choice is between a neo-liberal (but hardly as liberal as Fillon and with a social responsibility) ex-banker who is a DEMOCRAT ......................and a NEO-FASCIST. Your Mr Corbière would do well to have his passport at the ready...........just in case Le Pen becomes President. You make no comment on the comparison I made between the extreme-left in thirties Germany and the position of the extreme-left in France today. Why the change from 2002? There is something distinctly nasty behind Mélenchon and his henchmen's views on the second-round. Putin may not have been as influential in using internet during the campaign in France, as he was in the USA but it wouldn't surprise me at all, to find his influence behind Mélenchon's seemingly prefered option of abstaining.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

WOW! Early polls for the legislative elections (parliament) in June give 'En Marche' (Macron's new party) from zero, to becoming the largest party. They quite possibly won't have an overall majority but nevertheless, that's bloody impressive.



https://www.lesechos.fr/elections/l...s-2084198.php#xtor=CS1-31#cIgockZqvhYEumwh.01

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

It's not really a debate tonight, more of a curb stomp. Macron being ****ed by an older woman - again.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nd-emmanuel-macron-trade-insults-in-tv-debate

Thought the moderators were hugely unimpressive.Yogi,you'll no doubt remember that Chirac refused to debate with JMLP back in 2002.The "smirking banker" should have done the same.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...nd-emmanuel-macron-trade-insults-in-tv-debate

Thought the moderators were hugely unimpressive.Yogi,you'll no doubt remember that Chirac refused to debate with JMLP back in 2002.The "smirking banker" should have done the same.

Smirking and sneering certainly wasn't restricted to Macron. No, it wasn't very pretty and there is a 'missing' poster for the two moderators circling around social media this morning. However for all its faults I thought the exercise was worthwhile to show up Le Pen for what she really is..........just smears, innuendo and lies with no substance, completely out of her depth. It was only with a face to face debate that she could be exposed for what she is, someone with no solid programme, just living off and profiting from people's fears and hates. One of the most interesting polls following the debate, I believe, showed two thirds of Mélenchon voters believing Macron had won the argument..........I can only hope some of those will now decide to come out and vote for Macron on Sunday. It's important, not only that Le Pen is defeated but that she is defeated heavily.

 

[callan]

Smirking and sneering certainly wasn't restricted to Macron. No, it wasn't very pretty and there is a 'missing' poster for the two moderators circling around social media this morning. However for all its faults I thought the exercise was worthwhile to show up Le Pen for what she really is..........just smears, innuendo and lies with no substance, completely out of her depth. It was only with a face to face debate that she could be exposed for what she is, someone with no solid programme, just living off and profiting from people's fears and hates. One of the most interesting polls following the debate, I believe, showed two thirds of Mélenchon voters believing Macron had won the argument..........I can only hope some of those will now decide to come out and vote for Macron on Sunday. It's important, not only that Le Pen is defeated but that she is defeated heavily.

Not sure about the source, but if this report has any truth to it...then I imagine it will impact on Macrons vote.

http://disobedientmedia.com/documents-indicate-that-emmanuel-macron-may-be-engaging-in-tax-evasion/

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Smirking and sneering certainly wasn't restricted to Macron. No, it wasn't very pretty and there is a 'missing' poster for the two moderators circling around social media this morning. However for all its faults I thought the exercise was worthwhile to show up Le Pen for what she really is..........just smears, innuendo and lies with no substance, completely out of her depth. It was only with a face to face debate that she could be exposed for what she is, someone with no solid programme, just living off and profiting from people's fears and hates. One of the most interesting polls following the debate, I believe, showed two thirds of Mélenchon voters believing Macron had won the argument..........I can only hope some of those will now decide to come out and vote for Macron on Sunday. It's important, not only that Le Pen is defeated but that she is defeated heavily.

Thought it was more about trading insults (on both sides) rather than discussing their respective programmes.MLP will doubtless have convinced her supporters of her Presidential status.Doubt whether Macron will have made many converts (certainly not me,though I saw on Newsnight that Hanif Kureishi is a fan).
While Macron will win easily on Sunday (with a lot of abstentions and spoilt ballot papers),MLP looks extremely well placed for another crack in 5 year's time when Macron's neo-liberal economic policies will have inevitably failed.

One third of Mélenchon's supporters are likely to vote for Macron,apparently.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Not sure about the source, but if this report has any truth to it...then I imagine it will impact on Macrons vote.

http://disobedientmedia.com/documents-indicate-that-emmanuel-macron-may-be-engaging-in-tax-evasion/

I'm glad you brought this up as Le Pen did last night. Check out the site which published the story and you'll find it's an american extreme-right (alt-right) outlet. Just when you though you could forget the ruskies:smile:..............this apparently where the story originated from. Some good old fake news!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Thought it was more about trading insults (on both sides) rather than discussing their respective programmes. MLP will doubtless have convinced her supporters of her Presidential status.Doubt whether Macron will have made many converts (certainly not me,though I saw on Newsnight that Hanif Kureishi is a fan).
While Macron will win easily on Sunday (with a lot of abstentions and spoilt ballot papers),MLP looks extremely well placed for another crack in 5 year's time when Macron's neo-liberal economic policies will have inevitably failed.
her, deal with the marxists once they got into power.


One third of Mélenchon's supporters are likely to vote for Macron,apparently.

That's the whole point Barna, MLP hasn't got a bloody viable programme..........and that was well (even if aggressively) illustrated last night. As for your (Mélenchon's) position, I'm saddened by it.......there appears a wish that a Macron Presidency will fail. The only logic behind this is that you would wish one of two outcomes. 1) A real face off next time (2022), between a Marxist and a Fascist.....that should bring the blood onto the streets as well as into the TV studios. 2) A Le Pen victory, in the belief that such an action would bring about a huge reaction and and a consequent revolution would bring marxist's into government (France as a little Venezuela in Europe?). The only little problem here, is that the fascists would, in one way or another, deal with marxists, once they got into government........as they did in Germany.
I'm still really having difficulty getting my head around the fact that (if you had the possibility) you would not support a democrat in preference to a neo-fascist. The fact that Mélenchon has completely changed position since calling for people to vote for Chirac in 2002, leads me to believe, as I've suggested before, that there's something dark behind his position.