G20 protestor died of Abdominal Bleeding ....

[chadded]

The problem with this argument for me is that it is based on an assumption. You're assuming the Police had already spoken to this guy. You don't know that. It may well turn out to be true, but you don't know for sure...

Which comes back to something I have already said. From that clip it is impossible to know what went on leading up to this incident. Until the full facts are known no-one can really say if the Police were justified or not.

Your first paragraph is correct, I am working on an assumption, but so is everyone else making an opinion on the matter. To an extent I'm playing devils advocate and highlighting the other side of the assumption.

Your second paragraph is also correct, hence the need for an investigation.

On the issue of Police covering up their numbers, again, there is two sides to the story. Yes, a Police officer should always have his or her collar number visible, but I can totally understand why officers are wanting to cover them up in situations. I've got a colleague currently under investigation for assaulting a person he arrested. I know he's innocent, there's not a shred of evidence against my colleague, and the 'victim' has since been arrested by another agency, and pulled the same trick. How do you think he curently feels, having to be investigated by people on the same side as him. And before you think they would cover it up, it wasn't, and had to be reffered to the legal authorities.

I've done Public order training, using shields, batons, and baton guns, and whilst the adrenalin rush is pretty good, you also realise that it's fecking dangerous, and quite scary.

I find it interesting how everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of jail the rozzer. You think about doing their job next time your in your office drinking tea, playing on Shrimperzone when they are tipping up at the scene of a murder, or getting spat at and punched whilst trying to arrest the person who beat up your nan/ broke into your house. You don't have to like coppers, but even many felons have a grudging respect.

 

[steveo]

Your first paragraph is correct, I am working on an assumption, but so is everyone else making an opinion on the matter. To an extent I'm playing devils advocate and highlighting the other side of the assumption.
.

Not an assumption. There was a video of this but I can't find it at the mo. He continually refused to move out of the way of this vehicle.

 

[chadded]

Not an assumption. There was a video of this but I can't find it at the mo. He continually refused to move out of the way of this vehicle.

I had seen this in the press, and to be honest, its one of the main reasons I think the copper is innocent. To me, it shows that Tomlinson isn't Mr innocent, and during a period when the Police are under pressure, he is causing problems. ****ed up or not, drunkeness is not an excuse in law.

 

[Pubey]

I had seen this in the press, and to be honest, its one of the main reasons I think the copper is innocent. To me, it shows that Tomlinson isn't Mr innocent, and during a period when the Police are under pressure, he is causing problems. ****ed up or not, drunkeness is not an excuse in law.

even if he isn't innocent, there is still no justification for the assault. he wasn't arrested or restrained, he was struck from behind, and then the man is left to die from his injuries

 

[chadded]

even if he isn't innocent, there is still no justification for the assault. he wasn't arrested or restrained, he was struck from behind, and then the man is left to die from his injuries

Yes there is. If someone repeatedly ignores an order from a police officer (in a public order situation) then they can use force. I wouldn't hesitate. As for letting him die, he got up, walked away. When he collapsed, they gave first aid, but were unable to save him.

If any enquiry says that the police should change riot control tactics, then I hope they introduce water cannons that dont spray water, but CS gas, and make the protesters cry like babies.


As an aside, some of the protesting was peaceful. I dont know how much, as i work for a living, and so wasn't there ;), but I hear the police were relaxerd and even dishing out water to some of the protesters. Strange how that doesn't make the news, as a story about good policing* doesn't sell as many papers


*Not saying the Tomlinson policing was bad, but you know what i mean.


P.S. I blame the media. I hate journalists. A lot.

PPS. Sorry Matt the Shrimp. xx

 

[steveo]

even if he isn't innocent, there is still no justification for the assault. he wasn't arrested or restrained, he was struck from behind, and then the man is left to die from his injuries

I know its wrong, and if the Police had arrested him in the first instance there wouldn’t be this problem and the bloke would still be alive. However, the fall he took is probably not as bad as most people will experience playing football on a Sunday morning. Just complete bad luck that he died.

 

[Pubey]

I know its wrong, and if the Police had arrested him in the first instance there wouldn’t be this problem and the bloke would still be alive. However, the fall he took is probably not as bad as most people will experience playing football on a Sunday morning. Just complete bad luck that he died.

agreed, i do feel for the copper in a way (and the police in general) as they do a tough job that most of us couldn't do, coupled with the fact that they are on the frontline of much abuse and violence. however my main issue is with the way the senior police looked to make up lies to cover up what happened... it seems more common that the police do look to cover up their crimes, and it's erasing many peoples faith in the police, who are their to supposedly serve and protect.

Unfortunately the copper will be a scape-goat as Chadded says for what was a moment of complete madness (but IMO he should still serve a very long custodial sentence), and there could be issues in the future where the police are even more scared to intervene with force when having to defend themselves or others... hence why they are already removing numbers/covering their faces/banning being filmed etc.

 

[londonblue]

On the issue of Police covering up their numbers, again, there is two sides to the story. Yes, a Police officer should always have his or her collar number visible, but I can totally understand why officers are wanting to cover them up in situations. I've got a colleague currently under investigation for assaulting a person he arrested. I know he's innocent, there's not a shred of evidence against my colleague, and the 'victim' has since been arrested by another agency, and pulled the same trick. How do you think he curently feels, having to be investigated by people on the same side as him. And before you think they would cover it up, it wasn't, and had to be reffered to the legal authorities.

To give the other side of the argument. My brother (a lawyer) had a case that involved a friend of his. This friend is a market trader, and was pulled over by The Police on his way home from some market. He'd been up since about 4.00am and it was now late evening. He was a bit annoyed about being pulled over, and was a bit short with the police officers. Because of that they took him in on some trumped up charge. (I think it was along the lines of assaulting a police officer.)

When it went to court my brother tied the two policemen up in knots because they hadn't actually bothered to talk to eachother and get their stories straight. It was patently obvious they had made the whole thing up. So much so, the Judge told the two officers to disappear and be no where near the court room when he delivered his verdict because it would embarrass them.