IF Sainsbury pull out?

[chapperzUK]

Exactly ! We never needed a 22k seater in the first place.

Like Brighton don't need a 30k stadium when they were only able to pull in the same as we are in League 1?

 

[Tommy2holes]

Anything like 12-15k is about right and a bowl design hate these Chesterfield Shrewsbury col u copies.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

..with the potential to be made larger, if and when required.

 

[Jam_Man]

Whilst everybody is waxing lyrical over the supposed value of the current Roots Hall site, may I remind you that a significant part of the reason that the old commercial properties aligning Victoria Avenue have sat crumbling in a fashion resembling post-apocalypse Pripyat for the past 20 years is that numerous Developers have tried and duly been thwarted in attempts to deliver major residential schemes on these plots, due to the projected impact on an already insufficient transport corridor - the ageing and wholly inadequate A127.
Placing 1,000 new apartments (or something of that order) on the RH site would, I am certain, be laughed out of the Council chambers, until such time as major re-modelling of the A127 corridor takes place.

For me, the ideal solution to this is for Ron to disappear down a dark rabbit hole, Southend Borough Council to purchase the site and do with it what they please, and construct a 10,000 capacity community stadium on the FF site, setting up a stadium management company in the process and agreeing a profit sharing system with the Football Club. It has worked exceptionally well for Colchester United (attendances aside, but that is a longstanding cultural position in Colchester), and the potential to expand in a sustainable fashion is always there.

Do away with the raft of landmark architects and other consultants we have employed to push FF to this current stage, and you'll deliver a modern new, yet modest facility, for not much more than £12m in today's climate.

A stadium smaller than we have now and not even big enough for our average attendance in the Championship.

Thats ambition for you.

Might as well stick with Roots Hall!

We are not going to be in the Championship for the foreseeable future, and we wouldn't average anywhere near 10,000 in League 1 even if we were doing well - if by some chance crowds did exceed supply, then the Club can actually expand simple structures without even affecting overall capacity during the season - you can supplement a simple seating structure with an additional 1,000 seats at either end in less than half a season.

Says who?

We could be there in 20 months for all we know. You dont build a stadium for where you are now, but to fulfill your potential and in taking 30,000 to Wembley we showed potential.

If we build a new stadium its got to allow for bigger crowds, 16-18,000 would be what I though we would aim for. 22,000 was always highy optimisitic/ambitious., but Id rather that than have stadium we are instantly restricted in.

10k is more than adequate for us right now. Obviously if we were to fly up to the Championship again (unlikely for quite a while) then scope for increasing capacity would need to be in place. Which it would be as that is standard these days.

Adequate for us now, yes, but who knows what will happen in a year or two, and a new stadium may well bring in a couple thousand and then we are already at our limit. Col U didnt get much of a benefit from a new stadium, but they have never shown the ability to pull in a crowd like we can at times.

 

[Pubey]

A stadium smaller than we have now and not even big enough for our average attendance in the Championship.

Thats ambition for you.

Might as well stick with Roots Hall!

If we build a new stadium its got to allow for bigger crowds, 16-18,000 would be what I though we would aim for.

Absolutely. I'd rather 16-18k with an enclosed/bowl design rather than a more easily expandable but smaller stadium with open corners.

 

[fbm]

Ron walks then new owners take over and build a modest stadium with the club having ALL revenue the stadium brings.Of course the stadium will have provision for increased capacity as and when.

That's not going to happen, is it?

Flaw 1 - Why on earth would Ron walk? He isn't selling or willing to sell.

Flaw 2 - New owners take over... err, how? But let's suppose they came up with a sum tempting enough for Ron to sell... then they'd want a return.

Flaw 3 - All revenue to the club. So you want the developers to have no return at all? And if you say the rent would be their return, then it would have to be absolutely MONSTER to provide even a reasonable yield of, say, 7%. If the deal was for only £20m, then a 7% yield would be £1.4m per year, about 5 times what we could potentially afford and exactly £1.4m more than we are currently paying and still making a loss.

 

[Smiffy]

What is clear is this poll.

IF it all goes wRONg, then it would appear the majority on here would not be happy with Ron to remain. I concur.

Let's just hope there is a happy ending, whoever is in charge...

 

[fbm]

What is clear is this poll.

IF it all goes wRONg, then it would appear the majority on here would not be happy with Ron to remain. I concur.

Actually, not quite. just over 42% would not be happy. Most have no bloody idea.

But that's not our choice, is it? I doubt the figures would be much different if the deal isn't pulled and is built as planned. There would still be a huge percentage who want Ron to go simply because he is Ron Martin.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I would say a sound business is built on worst case scenario, which in this case is relegation. We're closer to the conference than we are the Championship at the moment. Worst case is we're in the conference (or worse) and we get 2,500-3,000 home supporters

 

[Smiffy]

Actually, not quite. just over 42% would not be happy. Most have no bloody idea.

But that's not our choice, is it? I doubt the figures would be much different if the deal isn't pulled and is built as planned. There would still be a huge percentage who want Ron to go simply because he is Ron Martin.

True.

But if we were to split the "no bloody ideas" down the middle then that would take the overall to about 65% in favour of Ronald doing one.

I for one would change my view if he got the 4 sides built and would be the first to congratulate him. However, it looks about as likely as me being signed on loan for the last league game and scoring a 90th minute overhead from 30 yards, to seal promotion to League 1.

 

[Jam_Man]

True.

But if we were to split the "no bloody ideas" down the middle then that would take the overall to about 65% in favour of Ronald doing one.

I for one would change my view if he got the 4 sides built and would be the first to congratulate him.

Lol you cant take poll and decide what people want for them.

No idea means that, they have no idea.

I personally just want the stadium built and the club run properly, if Ron can somehow achieve that then great, if he cant then Id prefer someone who could.

Surely thats what everyone should be wanting. Whethther they believe he will ever be able to is another thing.

 

[Smiffy]

Lol you cant take poll and decide what people want for them.

No idea means that, they have no idea.

I personally just want the stadium built and the club run properly, if Ron can somehow achieve that then great, if he cant then Id prefer someone who could.

Surely thats what everyone should be wanting. Whethther they believe he will ever be able to is another thing.

:hilarious:

But, but....I split it fairly 50/50 Sir.

 

[Neil 15GB]

So why does it not bankrupt him given the security he has provided over all of his assets ?

 

[Jam_Man]

So why does it not bankrupt him given the security he has provided over all of his assets ?

Depends if Sainsbury were to wipe the debt to walk away or not.

Part of the security he used was land in Benfleet, Im not sure how losing a plot of land would bankrupt him though.

 

[Smiffy]

Depends if Sainsbury were to wipe the debt to walk away or not.

Part of the security he used was land in Benfleet, Im not sure how losing a plot of land would bankrupt him though.

Perhaps there is much more he has used as security...

 

[Jam_Man]

Perhaps there is much more he has used as security...

Hence I said part of.

We will have to see if they do decide to walk away, and todate I understand they haven't, and if so what they do with the debt. Lots of ifs.....

 

[fbm]

True.

But if we were to split the "no bloody ideas" down the middle then that would take the overall to about 65% in favour of Ronald doing one.

I for one would change my view if he got the 4 sides built and would be the first to congratulate him.

There's a lot of huff and puff about this 3 sided stadium thing.

If people look at the application for 3 sides, you will see that the proposal was that the 4th side would be built at the earliest opportunity and certainly within 5 years.

It was Southend Council - quite correctly - who considered that if they granted the permission then there was actually nothing they could do to enforce the 4th side to be built and if it wasn't completed within 5 years - for whatever reason - then what remedy was there? They could hardly order FF to be demolished, could they?

So, in considering that, they had to take on board the possibility that the 4th side may not be built within 5 years and therefore, in fact, may never be built.

On that basis, were they still prepared to grant the permission? They voted "Yes".

At the time as I understand it, the entire development was at risk if there had been a "No" vote. So, if the permission had been declined, then that may have acted as a catalyst to the club's downfall. I wonder how many people would then have blamed the Council for the demise of the club and been ultra critical of the refusal of planning permission just for the slight delay in completing the stadium? After all, it said it was going to be completed within 5 years...

People will read into anything what they want to, find any scenario they want to find and justify any reason for that scenario by making a set of circumstances become the reason it happened.

In truth, none of us have a scooby.

 

[Neil 15GB]

Spot on ! And roots hall should provide new homes for young people and key workers so that young people and professionals working I the public sector can get on the property ladder.

 

[Jam_Man]

Spot on ! And roots hall should provide new homes for young people and key workers so that young people and professionals working I the public sector can get on the property ladder.

Why should they get preferred treatment over us that work in the private sector?! :nope:

 

[Smiffy]

There's a lot of huff and puff about this 3 sided stadium thing.

If people look at the application for 3 sides, you will see that the proposal was that the 4th side would be built at the earliest opportunity and certainly within 5 years.

It was Southend Council - quite correctly - who considered that if they granted the permission then there was actually nothing they could do to enforce the 4th side to be built and if it wasn't completed within 5 years - for whatever reason - then what remedy was there? They could hardly order FF to be demolished, could they?

So, in considering that, they had to take on board the possibility that the 4th side may not be built within 5 years and therefore, in fact, may never be built.

On that basis, were they still prepared to grant the permission? They voted "Yes".

At the time as I understand it, the entire development was at risk if there had been a "No" vote. So, if the permission had been declined, then that may have acted as a catalyst to the club's downfall. I wonder how many people would then have blamed the Council for the demise of the club and been ultra critical of the refusal of planning permission just for the slight delay in completing the stadium? After all, it said it was going to be completed within 5 years...

People will read into anything what they want to, find any scenario they want to find and justify any reason for that scenario by making a set of circumstances become the reason it happened.

In truth, none of us have a scooby.

Good post.

Yes there is a lot of huff and puff about this 3 sided thing, as to me I cannot fathom how the hell we can survive without one, for potentially 5 years or forever?

I think the Council have been a bit too lenient on Ron as well to be honest, but at the same time they have been very supportive. It is a difficult one for them, as obviously they dont want to kill the towns football club. But at some point they have to draw the line. For me they should of never allowed such a phased build plan (Certainly for the Main Stand) and the contribution payments in the way it has been scheduled.

It all just rings the biggest alarm bells possible for me.