Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[callan]

they don't have to vote with the whip, but as a party we have to say 'we respect the result of the referendum'. I'm sure everyone expects the representative of Lewisham to ignore the whip, but the bigger picture is there is a need for the whip to be in place. Carry on as normal IMO

Which means divided in this instance.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Which means divided in this instance.

that's how democracy works

 

[EastStandBlue]

they don't have to vote with the whip, but as a party we have to say 'we respect the result of the referendum'. I'm sure everyone expects the representative of Lewisham to ignore the whip, but the bigger picture is there is a need for the whip to be in place. Carry on as normal IMO

The expectation is that they will though, and for members of the Shadow Cabinet they'll all but have to relinquish their roles if they choose not to. Where does that leave Corbyn's cabinet given the last two reshuffles? Just him and Barry Gardiner job-sharing the whole thing?

 

[callan]

that's how democracy works

Or doesn't.

I actually thought this was a good piece by the Guardian on the issue, and it's fair to Corbyn which makes a nice change.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...arch-results-corbyn-labour-voters-soft-brexit

 

[callan]

**Duplicate post **

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Labour is an international party with strong links to other socialist parties in Europe.

Given that the country is divided over Brexit it's hardly suprising that Labour is too.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The expectation is that they will though, and for members of the Shadow Cabinet they'll all but have to relinquish their roles if they choose not to. Where does that leave Corbyn's cabinet given the last two reshuffles? Just him and Barry Gardiner job-sharing the whole thing?

personally I'm not spooked by it, the Party has to recognize the result but MP's also have to represent their constituents who in some cases have a strong remain vote.
If there was a whip and and 48% of Labour MP's still voted against A50 then for me that would be representative democracy in action.

 

[callan]

Labour is an international party with strong links to other socialist parties in Europe.

Given that the country is divided over Brexit it's hardly suprising that Labour is too.

Gone are the days eh Barna? when being split on the EU was a problem purely for the Tories.

Whatever happened to those Halcyon days....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Gone are the days eh Barna? when being split on the EU was a problem purely for the Tories.

Whatever happened to those Halcyon days....

There's certainly an irony there, which commentators haven't been slow to comment on.

However,it also shows that Labour is not in a hurry to abandon its principles in a hurry, unlike most of the Tory party.
An honourable exception would be George Osborne,who last week pointed out that the Tories have now made controlling immigration as their number one policy target rather that the strength of the economy.He was right.

 

[callan]

There's certainly an irony there, which commentators haven't been slow to comment on.

However,it also shows that Labour is not in a hurry to abandon its principles in a hurry, unlike most of the Tory party.
An honourable exception would be George Osborne,who last week pointed out that the Tories have now made controlling immigration as their number one policy target rather that the economy.He was right.

I'm not so sure about Labour abandoning it's principles...Cameron was accused of putting party before national interest with the referendum...could Corbyn now be accused of the same with his position on Brexit.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Gone are the days eh Barna? when being split on the EU was a problem purely for the Tories.

Whatever happened to those Halcyon days....

I'd say the Tories collectively decided to back what is best for the party over what is best for the country. EU splits have been an issue for them so that they went for each other leading up to 23rd June and got it out of their system. For better or for worse they decided the decision was made on that day. The style of leaving now seems to be the narrowest version because after months of trying to get some kind of plan together they have realised that coming away from this with something worth having is beyond their abilities. That is why Remainer May has decided to just drop everything and get out and hope to pick up something from elsewhere no matter who you are then forced to deal with. It shows a lack of ambition to walk away from something we have invested in for so long and not try to retain some of that investment.

 

[callan]

I'd say the Tories collectively decided to back what is best for the party over what is best for the country. EU splits have been an issue for them so that they went for each other leading up to 23rd June and got it out of their system. For better or for worse they decided the decision was made on that day. The style of leaving now seems to be the narrowest version because after months of trying to get some kind of plan together they have realised that coming away from this with something worth having is beyond their abilities. That is why Remainer May has decided to just drop everything and get out and hope to pick up something from elsewhere no matter who you are then forced to deal with. It shows a lack of ambition to walk away from something we have invested in for so long and not try to retain some of that investment.

Perhaps this is something you need to raise in the Theresa May thread.

However this thread is about Corbyn...who appears to be backing Theresa all the way.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Perhaps this is something you need to raise in the Theresa May thread.

However this thread is about Corbyn...who appears to be backing Theresa all the way.

I'm sure the 95% of zone users who find the politics threads tiresome would love it if I started splitting posts over more than one thread.

He is no more backing May than I was backing Cameron when I voted Remain. I'm sure you are clever enough to realise that.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Not on BBC news yet but read of a Government cave in. There will be a final House of Commons vote on the terms of Brexit. So Labour tactics on this seem to have paid off if this news is correct.

 

[callan]

Not on BBC news yet but read of a Government cave in. There will be a final House of Commons vote on the terms of Brexit. So Labour tactics on this seem to have paid off if this news is correct.

I believe it is, as May promised this already...but from what I've seen of it, it is nowhere near what Labour were after...more of a take it or leave it vote.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not so sure about Labour abandoning it's principles...Cameron was accused of putting party before national interest with the referendum...could Corbyn now be accused of the same with his position on Brexit.

Cameron made the biggest political mistake of any PM since I've been following politics and paid the price for it.

Corbyn is doing his level best to unit Labour after the referendum.

 

[callan]

Cameron made the biggest political mistake of any PM since I've been following politics and paid the price for it.

Corbyn is doing his level best to unit Labour after the referendum.

I suspect after this many people will never vote Labour again.


You have to hand it to the Tories Barna, a cheap trick that wrong foots Starmer by delivering on a pledge already made, and making it look like a concession.

 

[callan]

I'm sure the 95% of zone users who find the politics threads tiresome would love it if I started splitting posts over more than one thread.

He is no more backing May than I was backing Cameron when I voted Remain. I'm sure you are clever enough to realise that.

No one asked you to split the post merely put it in the correct thread.

As for the level of support you gave Cameron by voting to remain, or indeed Corbyns position of supporting the government with article 50...neither May or indeed Cameron could have asked for more:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

No one asked you to split the post merely put it in the correct thread.

As for the level of support you gave Cameron by voting to remain, or indeed Corbyns position of supporting the government with article 50...neither May or indeed Cameron could have asked for more:winking:

point 1 - you referenced Tory EU splits and Cameron in replies to Barna which are the two things I referenced so stop being a bell end
point 2 - just stop being a bell end x

 

[callan]

point 1 - you referenced Tory EU splits and Cameron in replies to Barna which are the two things I referenced so stop being a bell end
point 2 - just stop being a bell end x

Last time you decided to resort to insults....it didn't take too long for you to remove your post.
I would ask this time that it stays as a reminder of your true debating skills xxx