Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I think Corbyn's appeal is that he is above politics, and a man unafraid to tell the truth, even if it isn't what some want to hear. To exclude anyone for 'inadvisable language' doesn't sit well with me.

I would contend that Zionism is far from 'niche' and that May is very much on board. Most mainstream Western politicians are.

from my perspective Corbyn had to deal with an unsupportive party machine, puerile attacks from the media that often were picked up by the public, a second leadership election where tens of thousands of new members were denied a vote, two successive Conservative leaders who had the audacity to announce in Parliament that he was providing no opposition and should stand down, and had to face a general election called when the party had a 20% deficit - and he still managed to take 40% of the vote at the GE - the biggest vote increase since 1945, party membership surged to 600,000 and a manifesto that unified the party.
So Ken should realise that he is now a distraction and an easy attack point - all that has been achieved should be the focus and Ken has past glories that he look back on but he is unlikely to be a force for good again.

 

[Terry Camden]

from my perspective Corbyn had to deal with an unsupportive party machine, puerile attacks from the media that often were picked up by the public, a second leadership election where tens of thousands of new members were denied a vote, two successive Conservative leaders whole had the audacity to announce in Parliament that he was providing no opposition and should stand down, and had to face a general election called when the party had a 20% deficit - and he still managed to take 40% of the vote at the GE - the biggest vote increase since 1945, party membership surged to 600,000 and a manifesto that unified the party.
So Ken should realise that he is now a distraction and an easy attack point - all that has been achieved should be the focus and Ken has past glories that he look back on but he is unlikely to be a force for good again.

I see what you're saying but it seems like you want Jezza to play by the established rules and kowtow to press hostility. You may not like his policies but Trump showed how you can turn bad press into a campaign issue, in your favour. I suppose I am a classic working class Tory, but I could not vote for May, and I would not vote for a Blair type either. I want something truly different, and Corbyn seems to offer that - I think he should double down.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I see what you're saying but it seems like you want Jezza to play by the established rules and kowtow to press hostility. You may not like his policies but Trump showed how you can turn bad press into a campaign issue, in your favour. I suppose I am a classic working class Tory, but I could not vote for May, and I would not vote for a Blair type either. I want something truly different, and Corbyn seems to offer that - I think he should double down.

I think he is - he is fighting fire with fire in terms of the press. Every PM and party leader from all of the main parties have sucked up the the likes of Murdoch because they needed the press on side. Corbyn knows that is not going to happen - most of the print press owners would be hit by tax avoidance laws under the next Labour government so financially they want to take him down. May has cancelled Leveson 2 despite the fact press are in lie overdrive, and instead she has claimed she will target online 'fake news'. Corbyn will continue to be attacked by the press and he will not play the game to try to get them onside.
One of the things he gets begrudging respect for is knowing when to keep quite and when to speak up. May/Davis/Johnson have been making all of the Brexit mistakes and needed no opposition input - so he would focus on the NHS for example. Livingstone doesn't fit into that ability to focus, he is a loose cannon and a distraction from the goal of taking this incompetent and uncompassionate government down. For the greater good I wish Ken a happy and quiet retirement.

 

[londonblue]

I don't see what Ken did wrong. Isn't Jezza anti-Zionist? I thought it was common knowledge that Hitler floated the idea of moving Europe's Jews to Palestine as well as Madagascar and the Russian wastelands. Seems like much ado about nothing to me.

It is not common knowledge for one simple reason: it is completely and utterly false:

Ken Livingstone: Bad History, Worse Politics

 

[londonblue]

Labour suspends Ken Livingstone indefinitely


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43244090

Why are you celebrating the fact that he's been suspended indefinitely? My understanding is that that has only come about because ********* hasn't got round to starting the investigation into his anti-semitic tendencies yet. Mind you, I assume he's a busy man, and he's only had a year to kick things off. ********* needs to get on with it if he wants to be seen as actually caring.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

from my perspective Corbyn had to deal with an unsupportive party machine, puerile attacks from the media that often were picked up by the public, a second leadership election where tens of thousands of new members were denied a vote, two successive Conservative leaders who had the audacity to announce in Parliament that he was providing no opposition and should stand down, and had to face a general election called when the party had a 20% deficit - and he still managed to take 40% of the vote at the GE - the biggest vote increase since 1945, party membership surged to 600,000 and a manifesto that unified the party.
So Ken should realise that he is now a distraction and an easy attack point - all that has been achieved should be the focus and Ken has past glories that he look back on but he is unlikely to be a force for good again.

Such a pity about your closing sentence.I fully agree with everything else in your post.

FWIW,it seems to me that Ken still has a great deal to offer Labour under JC's leadership.He won't give up easily either.He's spent a lifetime in Labour politics.

 

[rigsby]

It is not common knowledge for one simple reason: it is completely and utterly false:

Ken Livingstone: Bad History, Worse Politics

Your article doesn't mention Madagascar. Hitler was always critical of the British involvement in Palestine, how we treated the locals etc.

That's why he suggested Jews should have Madagascar. Obviously Hitler wasn't thinking in the same way as Jews who are true Zionists as they claim they have a right to land that extends from the Red sea in Egypt to the Euphrates in Iraq. No one is allowed to speak the truth over Israel and Ken knows that and would equally see someone from another party be ousted under the same circumstances.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Your article doesn't mention Madagascar. Hitler was always critical of the British involvement in Palestine, how we treated the locals etc.

That's why he suggested Jews should have Madagascar. Obviously Hitler wasn't thinking in the same way as Jews who are true Zionists as they claim they have a right to land that extends from the Red sea in Egypt to the Euphrates in Iraq. No one is allowed to speak the truth over Israel and Ken knows that and would equally see someone from another party be ousted under the same circumstances.

I see this thread has now fallen victim to Godwin's law.Pity.

 

[rigsby]

I see this thread has now fallen victim to Godwin's law.Pity.

It was Ken Livingstone who was obsessed with Godwins law not me. Ken thought the British presence in Northern Ireland was worse than the Holocaust, accusing a Jewish reporter of being a Nazi guard etc.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Why are you celebrating the fact that he's been suspended indefinitely? My understanding is that that has only come about because ********* hasn't got round to starting the investigation into his anti-semitic tendencies yet. Mind you, I assume he's a busy man, and he's only had a year to kick things off. ********* needs to get on with it if he wants to be seen as actually caring.

since when has posting up news been celebrating?

Your understanding is 100% wrong, the 2 year suspension was coming to an end so the committee that looks at these things had to renew the suspension or expel him or allow the suspension to expire. Nothing to do with Corbyn.

Why are you giving a white atheist a nickname that makes him sound Muslim? That could come across as a bit racist. You have a strong dislike of Corbyn so why tarnish Muslims by Islamifying his name? very odd.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It was Ken Livingstone who was obsessed with Godwins law not me. Ken thought the British presence in Northern Ireland was worse than the Holocaust, accusing a Jewish reporter of being a Nazi guard etc.

not aware of him ever saying that - got a link to a quote?

 

[rigsby]

not aware of him ever saying that - got a link to a quote?

Try looking up Ken Livingstone on Wikipedia or just google it.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Try looking up Ken Livingstone on Wikipedia or just google it.

I've googled it and can't find anywhere that he has compared these two completely unrelated things. I'd be surprised if anyone did though - who even thinks like that?

 

[londonblue]

Your understanding is 100% wrong, the 2 year suspension was coming to an end so the committee that looks at these things had to renew the suspension or expel him or allow the suspension to expire. Nothing to do with Corbyn.

But ********* did announce there would be an inquiry into KLs antics didn't he? If so, why has it still not even started?

 

[Uncle Leo]

I've googled it and can't find anywhere that he has compared these two completely unrelated things. I'd be surprised if anyone did though - who even thinks like that?

I found something suggesting he spoke on an Irish radio show comparing Britain's 800 year occupation of Ireland to the Holocaust. But can't find a transcript of the interview.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/polit...ced-controversy-over-views-on-ireland-502106/

 

[rigsby]

I've googled it and can't find anywhere that he has compared these two completely unrelated things. I'd be surprised if anyone did though - who even thinks like that?

I've just checked. Livingstone was interviewed on Irish State Radio in August 1983. He said the 800 year occupation of Ireland was more destructive than the Holocaust.......

No talk of peace....No respecting the will of the people of NI from both religions who did not and do not want a united Ireland.

He had been banned from inviting Adams to Westminster because they had just murdered 17 people with a bomb that's why he went to Adams West Belfast constituency for a heroes welcome by republicans....No talk of peace just a great recruiting campaign for any would be young man who was thinking of joining the IRA......Just keep up the terror boys whilst we pile on the pressure on the mainland.

He banned the Territorial army from marching past the GLC building that year and said the Falklands should be for the Argies....It was people like him that lost Labour the election that year and allowed the full force of Thatcherism to be unleashed.....The first thing she did was abolish the GLC.....

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I found something suggesting he spoke on an Irish radio show comparing Britain's 800 year occupation of Ireland to the Holocaust. But can't find a transcript of the interview.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/polit...ced-controversy-over-views-on-ireland-502106/

Well I apologise to Rigsby then as it sounded like the kind of nonsense he would spout but seemingly is the kind of nonsense Livingstone would spout. Be safer to see/hear an actual quote though bearing in mind how much the 'indefinite suspension' quote has taken on various forms depending on who is relating.


Two other interesting things in that article - the news that he was close to being murdered by loyalist paramilitaries, and that photo - a pure early 80's look.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I've just checked. Livingstone was interviewed on Irish State Radio in August 1983. He said the 800 year occupation of Ireland was more destructive than the Holocaust.......

No talk of peace....No respecting the will of the people of NI from both religions who did not and do not want a united Ireland.

He had been banned from inviting Adams to Westminster because they had just murdered 17 people with a bomb that's why he went to Adams West Belfast constituency for a heroes welcome by republicans....No talk of peace just a great recruiting campaign for any would be young man who was thinking of joining the IRA......Just keep up the terror boys whilst we pile on the pressure on the mainland.

He banned the Territorial army from marching past the GLC building that year and said the Falklands should be for the Argies....It was people like him that lost Labour the election that year and allowed the full force of Thatcherism to be unleashed.....The first thing she did was abolish the GLC.....

No talk of peace in that article. Doesn't mean there was not talk of peace.

In answer to Barna - this is why Livingstone should retire from politics and do some gardening. We are ready to change this country for the better and rid ourselves of this incompetent government and we haven't got the time and energy to use on discussing people who have no real influence on the current movement. Whatever your thoughts on Livingstone he will be used as a distraction by people who want to keep discussing the past as they don't have positive things to discuss in the present.

Livingstone is of more use to Tories than to Labour currently.

 

[rigsby]

Well I apologise to Rigsby then as it sounded like the kind of nonsense he would spout but seemingly is the kind of nonsense Livingstone would spout. Be safer to see/hear an actual quote though bearing in mind how much the 'indefinite suspension' quote has taken on various forms depending on who is relating.


Two other interesting things in that article - the news that he was close to being murdered by loyalist paramilitaries, and that photo - a pure early 80's look.

So an apology with an insult thrown in......How left wing of you.

Still never mind I was accused in the same manner by Tangled when I posted that his hero, McGuiness fired the first shots on Bloody Sunday....Which has been proved to be true.

Michael Stone was going to kill our Ken. He is more famous for the funeral gun and grenade attack which was caught on camera. He thought the intelligent services were onto him.....Probably didn't realise they would have let it happen.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Remembered certainly but not "go down in history for."

yes he will because he was and will always be remembered as a lying, murdering pice of **** and the world is better off without him taking valuable air away from someone else.