Michael Gove gets it wrong again.

[superblue24]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19626663

OK.I'm sure most people would agree that there has been a dumbing down/grade inflation(call it what you will)in the English educational system since GCSE's replaced GCE's and CSE's 25 years ago.However, I'm not at all sure that Michael Gove's new initiative is the solution to the problem.
And I speak as a great admirer of the French education system(both our daughters passed their French "Bacs" with flying colours).

God, reading these posts from you is like reading the Mirror which I have to endure every week when I go with my missus back to her parents in Ipswich. Everything the government does is just sneered at and ridiculed. I bet if Labour were in power you'd never be on this Politics thread! (and no, that's not because there would be nothing to moan about before you get that one in)

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Why is equality in education a good thing?

Sorry...........I meant equality in opportunity in education........the last sentence is rather badly formed but doesn't detract from the basic point I wanted to make.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

We have that already don't we? Every child resident in the UK has the right to education (the legal obligation to be educated in fact). Every child has the opportunity hence we have achieved equality of opportunity.

My understanding of the original reference I quoted was that equality of opportunity could only be achieved when every child received the same education. I'm happy to be corrected though.

I remember a number of things about the thirteen years I spent teaching in the England but I don't recall the state sector being able to provide a privileged environment with virtually limitless facilities, small classes which permitted individual tutoring and an ethos of superiority.
There is a private sector in France which caters for about one in six children, I believe that many of these schools are religious based. It is generally the opinion that the state sector provides a better quality of education than the private sector, I don't think that is generally the case in England.
In the end there are many other factors that determine inequalities of opportunity e.g. home background, so total equality is an impossible thing to achieve. Of course, getting rid of the private sector in England wouldn't in itself create equality of opportunity but it would be a positive step and the introduction of these pupils into the public sector would help push up standards.
Anyway this is all dreamland, it's never going to happen. The majority in England seem to be very happy to be part of this ancient British class system and the way it works. They know where they stand.......(takes me back to an old Monty Python sketch). Isn't that very much part of what being 'British' is?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I didn't know that continuous assessment was that important in the French Bac. and the person I could consult has just gone out of the door to start her afternoon's teaching. There is the wonderful world of 'repêchage du Bac', where borderline pupils who got more than the average of 8/20 but less than the 10/20 required to pass, attempt a retrappage. In this, they select two of their subjects in which they undergo a fifteen minute oral in each in an attempt to push up their marks and get them over the 10 pass mark. In the teacher's deliberations that follow, I know that a pupil's course work and attitude are taken into account.
I do strongly agree with you about the benefits here of being able to choose Bac. options, perhaps that's something that will be brought into the English version through consultation?..........it certainly should be.
However, Barna, you and I both know that, in England, this is merely tinkering with an education system that is basically flawed. Equality in education doesn't come with a final exam but with a system that is open to all and not one that is divisive and offers a privileged route for those that can afford to pay.

Yogi.
Don't think I said it was that important.Just counted.Like you,the person who could tell me exactly has waltzed out to the cinema with our older daughter(back for the day to register her PHD with the UAB).
I agree with everything else you say though,especially your closing remarks.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

When Barna shoots from the hip about equality of education, is he after equality of outcome (ie let's get everyone to a lowest common denominator) or equality of opportunity (ie everyone can enter the 11+)?

I don't have any time for the 11+ exam.I know(from personal experience)that it was(and is) unjust and inaccurate.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I don't have any time for the 11+ exam.I know(from personal experience)that it was(and is) unjust and inaccurate.

You obviously failed. So I would consider it both just and accurate. But I've heard you rabbiting on about going to that second rate school Westcliff High, were you one of those third raters who crashed the sixth form after spending five years at a divvy school?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

God, reading these posts from you is like reading the Mirror which I have to endure every week when I go with my missus back to her parents in Ipswich. Everything the government does is just sneered at and ridiculed. I bet if Labour were in power you'd never be on this Politics thread! (and no, that's not because there would be nothing to moan about before you get that one in)

It's been a long time since I've read the Mirror on a regular basis(back in the 70's in fact).I'll be interested though, to see what improvements Labour are able to offer in the consultation phase, that is now due to take place.

Contrary to what you imply, I'm no apologist for the Labour Party.In fact I think both the Wilson /Callaghan Governments and later Blair/Brown funked their opportunity to improve education in the UK.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You obviously failed. So I would consider it both just and accurate. But I've heard you rabbiting on about going to that second rate school Westcliff High, were you one of those third raters who crashed the sixth form after spending five years at a divvy school?

Borderline,actually.And that was mainly because I was knocked down by a car(after playing football for my school),which led to me missing nearly a whole year's schooling.
And yes, I did make it to WHS in the sixth form, after taking O levels at Eastwood HS and before that attending Highfield College(until it closed down).

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Borderline,actually.And that was mainly because I was knocked down by a car(after playing football for my school),which led to me missing nearly a whole year's schooling.
And yes, I did make it to WHS in the sixth form, after taking O levels at Eastwood HS and before that attending Highfield College(until it closed down).

So the short answer would be yes?

 

[OldBlueLady]

I don't have any time for the 11+ exam.I know(from personal experience)that it was(and is) unjust and inaccurate.

Didn't do me any harm.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So the short answer would be yes?

I imagine that you're capable of understanding that borderline can mean a borderline fail or a borderline pass.I explained to you the reason why I was a borderline fail.Others on SZ can back up my account,(although they're rarely stupid enough to "debate" with people like you in the Pub/Politics section of this site).Incidentally, I still remember the name of the person who interviewed/tested me,Miss Bonniface.
I would have thought that the academic qualifications I achieved later in life would indicate that her assesment was flawed and inaccurate, to say the least.I remember her saying that she thought that I would be "happier" at secondary modern school.She was wrong.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I imagine that you're capable of understanding that borderline can mean borderline fail or borderline pass.I explained to you the reason why I was a borderline fail.Others on SZ can back up my account(although they're rarely stupid enough to debate with people like you in the Pub/Politics) section of this site).Incidentally, I still remember the name of the person who interviewed/tested me,Miss Bonniface.
I would have thought that the academic qualifications I achieved later in life would indicate that her assesment was flawed and inaccurate to say the least.I remember her saying that she would that I would be "happier" at secondary modern school.She was wrong.

Judging from the sloppiness of your spelling, grammar and paragraph structure, I very much doubt you could pass now. And teaching English as a second language to a few swarthy paella munchers is hardly ascending to the very top of the careers ladder is it?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Judging from the sloppiness of your spelling, grammar and paragraph structure, I very much doubt you could pass now. And teaching English as a second language to a few swarthy paella munchers is hardly ascending to the very top of the careers ladder is it?

FYI,
I've taught EFL at undergraduate and MBA level for over 18 years in a 30 year + career.
What do you do to earn a crust,Btw?:unsure:

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

And what do you do to earn a crust?:unsure:

I earn the whole ****ing loaf boysie. CFO of a medical company. Look it up.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I earn the whole ****ing loaf boysie. CFO of a medical company. Look it up.

FYI,(while we're on the subject of acronyms),I know what a CFO is.You seem to forget that as well as EFL,
(that's English as a Foreign Language,Btw and not ESL,which is a different thing entirely, i.e. teaching English as a Second Language to immigrants), I also teach BE or Business English.

Incidentally,one of my brothers(not Shrimpero)is an Investment Banker and I'm also friendly with a few City number crunchers, or accountants.

Unlike like you,(clearly),I don't judge a person's worth on the basis of what they earn.(That's a repugnant American concept).

As far as education is concerned, I'm grateful,coming as I do from a working class background,to have been given an opportunity to escape that upbringing.I grasped it with both hands when I could.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Didn't do me any harm.

I have fond memories of a lot of nice WHS girls(and some not so nice ones) from weekly Lit.and Deb.Society meetings and 6th form parties,circa 69/70.Happy times.:winking:

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Unlike like you,(clearly),I don't judge a person's worth on the basis of what they earn.(That's a repugnant American concept).

Your English comprehension skills don't appear to have improved since you failed; Rusty was referring to status not earnings.

Did your brothers pass?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Your English comprehension skills don't appear to have improved since you failed; Rusty was referring to status not earnings.

Did your brothers pass?

That was some 50 years ago now.It's symptomatic of Britain's highly class ridden society that anyone(i.e. you and others) could still want to make an issue of it, in today's(not so) modern Britain.

I'd imagine that Rusty is precisely the sort of person(along with many others of his and your political persuasion)who equates status with earnings.In any case, I suspect he was referring to earnings rather than status.

In answer to your question,my younger brother(the Investment Banker)didn't even take the exam but still finished up at Cambridge.Shrimpero did pass however.

Yogi(below)was quite right.The tv sketch he mentions was(and is)extremely funny.Unfortunately,the reality that underpins it, even today,is not.(And yes I know that it wasn't a MP sketch.Thanks.)

. The majority in England seem to be very happy to be part of this ancient British class system and the way it works. They know where they stand.......(takes me back to an old Monty Python sketch). Isn't that very much part of what being 'British' is?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

That was over 50 years ago now.It's symptomatic of Britain's highly class ridden society that anyone(i.e. you and others) could still want to make an issue of it, in today's(not so) modern Britain.

I'd imagine that Rusty is precisely the sort of person(along with many others of his and your political persuasion)who equates status with earnings.In any case, I suspect he was referring to earnings rather than status.

In answer to your question,my younger brother(the Investment Banker)didn't even take the exam but still finished up at Cambridge.Shrimpero did pass however.

Yogi(below)was quite right.The tv sketch he mentions was(and is)extremely funny.Unfortunately,the reality that underpins it, even today,is not.(And yes I know that it wasn't a MP sketch.Thanks.)

I very much doubt you were a leading light in the debating society.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I very much doubt you were a leading light in the debating society.

Actually,most people who know me,would I think agree, that I'm a highly articulate person.

But you're right though,I didn't exactly shine in the lit.and deb.society.

However I did perform well in GS classes, where IIRC(and I do)one master wrote on my report "He spoke intelligently when prodded."

Incidentally,why did you make this reputation comment on my previous post?

"More crap. You're a failure. Deal with it."

Why not try arguing your case occasionally rather than just dishing out bile?