New ground update?

[8]

In some respects not surprising given the saga we've all had to endure to get to this point, but most of the objections raised in this thread are either from a position of ignorance or simply a matter of personal taste (which I imagine has been somewhat clouded by the all-consuming hatred some espouse for Ron).

Firstly, this is absolutely nothing new. For anyone who has been paying attention (and thanks to a few dedicated posters who go through each iteration of the planning docs, and contribute to some v interesting discussions in the Fossets section of the forum), the news of a reduced capacity and flats replacing the hotel was thoroughly discussed back in September of last year.

A capacity of over 16,000 will absolutely be more than sufficient for us in almost every conceivable future scenario. We can, with good new ownership, strong management, and some luck establish ourselves as a L1 club with championship ambitions with the stadium as proposed in these plans. Anything higher than that is a) pretty damn unlikely - honestly go and look at the names of the clubs at the top of L1 right now and tell me which ones you think we ought to be competing with; and b) attendance numbers start to diminish in importance given the obscene TV deals in the Prem and filtering down to the Championship. 16k+ is more than enough.

Secondly, complaints over the phasing are, as far as I can tell, driven by a blind pessimistic presumption that nothing good can ever come of this development (understandable given the tribulations over the years). But things have changed. The training ground has been developed. The club is for sale. The council want their thousands of new homes. This is going to happen now. And the idea that any new owner waiting in the wings to buy us because of our potential is going to be happy to plod along with us in a 3-sided stadium with its main stand and revenue generator missing in perpetuity seems a bit unlikely. Even after phase 1, the 3 stands will give us significantly more revenue streams, fewer overheads and a much more pleasant experience than the current state of Roots Hall.

And please, if you are still talking about us having no revenue streams because the hotel has been dropped, do yourself and everyone else a favour and find some of @C'mon you Shrimpers posts in the stadium section, because he has done the work for you. There are bars, cafes, food outlets, boxes, ballrooms, and space that can be tailored for whatever the new owners have in mind (office space etc.).

In terms of the design of the stadium itself - it looks pretty good to me, but appreciate that is down to personal taste. Safe standing to create a proper home end will be great, and I actually don't mind the flats built into the main stand. It gives a sense of scale to the ground that we could never achieve through seating alone as we'll never need a 40/50k stadium.

Finally, and probably most disappointingly, the frequent complaints in this thread about this being a housing development with a stadium built on, or us being stuck in a 'ghetto' (from posters with a dubious history of talking about ethnicity of our prospective new neighbours). Honestly, get a ****ing grip. We're currently sitting on a former rubbish dump down Vic Avenue, it's hardly the Ritz. Football stadiums should be in amongst housing, it's where up until 20 years ago, they've always been. Give me this over a stadium attached to a drab and dying retail park any day.

Having lived for a few years in the Olympic Village in Stratford, and actually looked at the Residential plans for this development unlike some of the critics, these modern developments really aren't this eyesore people are thinking of. They are generally quite well designed, have cafes/shops on the ground level and multiple green spaces. I genuinely think in 5/10 years time this will be a desirable part of Southend to be in, and with the right ownership we will be able to take advantage of thousands of new prospective fans right on our doorstep.

I know the last few years have been incredibly depressing for all of us, but really please do try to tone down the 'everything is **** and I hate it' stuff around the stadium. Provided the sale of the club goes well, we've got plans in place for a really bright future, and when we eventually get there I do think the vast majority will be delighted with it.

I still think the ground should not have housing built in. In MY view it does not look very appealing. We shall see. Each to their own.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

With every planning application of this size you have to have a transport plan. This has been produced. There will be improvements to the roundabout at the top of Sutton Road and Eastern Avenue aided by small sections of Victory Sports Ground and Jones Memorial Ground (don't panic the developers have to pay the Jones Trust so much, I can't remember how much but none of the pitches are effected), extra buses on match day encouragement to cycle or walk etc. If we all want to drive to the ground at 2.45 yes it would be chaos but we won't. I wonder how we all get to Roots Hall. We all I guess have our own way, favourite parking spot etc. It won't be half as bad as many think.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

...extra buses on match day encouragement to cycle or walk etc. If we all want to drive to the ground at 2.45 yes it would be chaos but we won't. I wonder how we all get to Roots Hall. We all I guess have our own way, favourite parking spot etc. It won't be half as bad as many think.

RH has a huge car park and it's surrounded by off street parking. This is in no man's land. Can't see many people cycling or walking there !

 

[GDM]

Our potential average attendances with a new stadium & owner in:

National League: 6-8k
League 2: 7-9k (League Average 5.5k)
League 1: 8-10k (League Average 8k)
Championship: 12-15k (League Average 18k)
Prem: 25k+ (League Average 40k)

Reasonable or a tad conservative?

Reasonable…the big concern is the millions of debt we would rack up chasing the championship. If we want Southend to be a well run club living within its means then League 1 is our absolute limit.
See Kieran Maguire on Twitter today re Bournemouth for context

 

[Fairport]

With every planning application of this size you have to have a transport plan. This has been produced. There will be improvements to the roundabout at the top of Sutton Road and Eastern Avenue aided by small sections of Victory Sports Ground and Jones Memorial Ground (don't panic the developers have to pay the Jones Trust so much, I can't remember how much but none of the pitches are effected), extra buses on match day encouragement to cycle or walk etc. If we all want to drive to the ground at 2.45 yes it would be chaos but we won't. I wonder how we all get to Roots Hall. We all I guess have our own way, favourite parking spot etc. It won't be half as bad as many think.

Exactly this, Eastern Avenue on a match day could arguably be less busy than current match days are in Victoria Avenue which also takes most of the traffic going to the High Street or seafront.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

RH has a huge car park and it's surrounded by off street parking. This is in no man's land. Can't see many people cycling or walking there !

Agree but it's the in thing. A bit of a joke as more people cycled when I was a lad. I cycled to school. My plan for what it's worth and depends on my fitness as I'm not getting any younger is to catch the bus with my free bus pass, get off at Priory Park and a nice stroll through the park to the ground. Perfect.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Reasonable…the big concern is the millions of debt we would rack up chasing the championship. If we want Southend to be a well run club living within its means then League 1 is our absolute limit.
See Kieran Maguire on Twitter today re Bournemouth for context

Bloody frightening figures of debt.

 

[Jai]

I question the relevance of high student populations. Different demographic potentially, but 50% of the Cities of Oxford and Cambridge are basically dominated by their respective Universities, and both of the football clubs do not see any discernible benefit to their attendances. Students are a red herring - the vast majority will not be local and will already have a football club (if indeed they are football fans).

Can confirm that as someone who works for the main University based in Cambridge, Anglia Ruskin, that students are not generally football attendees.

 

[crangoner]

Can confirm that as someone who works for the main University based in Cambridge, Anglia Ruskin, that students are not generally football attendees.

I hope ARU still advertise themselves directly beneath the platform signs at Cambridge train station. Was a delight, the last time I went that way, seeing

"Cambridge
Home of Anglia Ruskin University"

Not what I imagine a fair few tourists would have in mind whey they alight at Cambridge!

 

[united we stand]

In some respects not surprising given the saga we've all had to endure to get to this point, but most of the objections raised in this thread are either from a position of ignorance or simply a matter of personal taste (which I imagine has been somewhat clouded by the all-consuming hatred some espouse for Ron).

Firstly, this is absolutely nothing new. For anyone who has been paying attention (and thanks to a few dedicated posters who go through each iteration of the planning docs, and contribute to some v interesting discussions in the Fossets section of the forum), the news of a reduced capacity and flats replacing the hotel was thoroughly discussed back in September of last year.

A capacity of over 16,000 will absolutely be more than sufficient for us in almost every conceivable future scenario. We can, with good new ownership, strong management, and some luck establish ourselves as a L1 club with championship ambitions with the stadium as proposed in these plans. Anything higher than that is a) pretty damn unlikely - honestly go and look at the names of the clubs at the top of L1 right now and tell me which ones you think we ought to be competing with; and b) attendance numbers start to diminish in importance given the obscene TV deals in the Prem and filtering down to the Championship. 16k+ is more than enough.

Secondly, complaints over the phasing are, as far as I can tell, driven by a blind pessimistic presumption that nothing good can ever come of this development (understandable given the tribulations over the years). But things have changed. The training ground has been developed. The club is for sale. The council want their thousands of new homes. This is going to happen now. And the idea that any new owner waiting in the wings to buy us because of our potential is going to be happy to plod along with us in a 3-sided stadium with its main stand and revenue generator missing in perpetuity seems a bit unlikely. Even after phase 1, the 3 stands will give us significantly more revenue streams, fewer overheads and a much more pleasant experience than the current state of Roots Hall.

And please, if you are still talking about us having no revenue streams because the hotel has been dropped, do yourself and everyone else a favour and find some of @C'mon you Shrimpers posts in the stadium section, because he has done the work for you. There are bars, cafes, food outlets, boxes, ballrooms, and space that can be tailored for whatever the new owners have in mind (office space etc.).

In terms of the design of the stadium itself - it looks pretty good to me, but appreciate that is down to personal taste. Safe standing to create a proper home end will be great, and I actually don't mind the flats built into the main stand. It gives a sense of scale to the ground that we could never achieve through seating alone as we'll never need a 40/50k stadium.

Finally, and probably most disappointingly, the frequent complaints in this thread about this being a housing development with a stadium built on, or us being stuck in a 'ghetto' (from posters with a dubious history of talking about ethnicity of our prospective new neighbours). Honestly, get a ****ing grip. We're currently sitting on a former rubbish dump down Vic Avenue, it's hardly the Ritz. Football stadiums should be in amongst housing, it's where up until 20 years ago, they've always been. Give me this over a stadium attached to a drab and dying retail park any day.

Having lived for a few years in the Olympic Village in Stratford, and actually looked at the Residential plans for this development unlike some of the critics, these modern developments really aren't this eyesore people are thinking of. They are generally quite well designed, have cafes/shops on the ground level and multiple green spaces. I genuinely think in 5/10 years time this will be a desirable part of Southend to be in, and with the right ownership we will be able to take advantage of thousands of new prospective fans right on our doorstep.

I know the last few years have been incredibly depressing for all of us, but really please do try to tone down the 'everything is **** and I hate it' stuff around the stadium. Provided the sale of the club goes well, we've got plans in place for a really bright future, and when we eventually get there I do think the vast majority will be delighted with it.

I will bite.
We originally had plans for. 22,000 stadium. Many complained it was too big . Ron explained that they had done the research and this size made sense. It was planning for the future ( not just the next 5 years). It was proven ( as stated by sherrif) that attendences went up with a new stadium and our catchmanent area meant the potential for new fans was huge. The price difference between 18 and 22,000 also meant we only needed to sell out twice a year for it make sense financially.

Fast forward and our crowds have gone up in general and despite a double relegation and literally years of crap we still have decent crowds

Now we are told 16000 is all we need. Why- what has changed. Events at other clubs with new stadiums and indeed our own attendences suggest that Ron was right all those years ago as opposed to Ron today.
I’m sure the fact that ron was confident in funding in the past and clearly now needs to cut costs has nothing to do with the new feeling that 16000 is all we need.

We might not be able to do anything about it, but don’t expect me to be grateful/ feel good about it and not feel that perhaps I have been an idiot believing him for years

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

If Ron truly intends to sell and definitely doesn't want to be SUFC's landlord and if he wants the sale to go through in time for next season, why not wait 3 months and see what size stadium the new owners want and build it to their specifications before selling on. That is, of course, if he was being genuine last Friday. The stench of deceit gets stronger every day.

 

[Jai]

I hope ARU still advertise themselves directly beneath the platform signs at Cambridge train station. Was a delight, the last time I went that way, seeing

"Cambridge
Home of Anglia Ruskin University"

Not what I imagine a fair few tourists would have in mind whey they alight at Cambridge!

Yeah it's a brilliant piece of marketing to be fair.

 

[Stan33]

With every planning application of this size you have to have a transport plan. This has been produced. There will be improvements to the roundabout at the top of Sutton Road and Eastern Avenue aided by small sections of Victory Sports Ground and Jones Memorial Ground (don't panic the developers have to pay the Jones Trust so much, I can't remember how much but none of the pitches are effected), extra buses on match day encouragement to cycle or walk etc. If we all want to drive to the ground at 2.45 yes it would be chaos but we won't. I wonder how we all get to Roots Hall. We all I guess have our own way, favourite parking spot etc. It won't be half as bad as many think.

U must b joking ,can u not imagine the chaos at theBell ,then onto Cuckoo Corner then Sutton Road round about

 

[Fairport]

U must b joking ,can u not imagine the chaos at theBell ,then onto Cuckoo Corner then Sutton Road round about

A bit of congestion for an hour or so every fortnight is not a major problem. Dozens of towns and cities cope with football crowds of up to 70000 every weekend.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

U must b joking ,can u not imagine the chaos at theBell ,then onto Cuckoo Corner then Sutton Road round about

We'll see. How do people ever get to Roots Hall. You find a way Stan, you find a way

 

[BALDY]

I wonder how many people would not entertain living there as the floodlights would be blazing away into their homes?

 

[Holy Joe]

If Ron truly intends to sell and definitely doesn't want to be SUFC's landlord and if he wants the sale to go through in time for next season, why not wait 3 months and see what size stadium the new owners want and build it to their specifications before selling on. That is, of course, if he was being genuine last Friday. The stench of deceit gets stronger every day.

He needs to get cracking on it - he can't develop Roots Hall or have any of the flats at FF occupied until phase 1 of the stadium is built - mind that was phase 1 of the current approved planning application with 13000 odd seats

 

[RHB]

I wonder how many people would not entertain living there as the floodlights would be blazing away into their homes?

Roots Hall has flats immediately behind and above the South Stand, and a recently finished further set of flats is now positioned at the corner of the North and East Stands. I would imagine that some of those flats are impacted by the club floodlights but there does not appear to be a plethora of empty ones. Make of that what you will @BALDY.

 

[Kat_r]

I know there are flats built into the ground design, but are there persons out there who would want to live in them during match days.
I would have thought that it would have been to noisy.
My other sort of concern would be,
Would it be possible for the owners or tenants of the flats to put an injunction on the ground or club, complaining that it is to noisy for them.
Or
Complain that at every home game there is foul industrial language coming up from the ground / terraces and into their properties, and they would want it stopped.
They want the crowd to stop singing, chanting, and or using industrial language.
Could that actually happen in the real world.

the council have approved it but yes it will be a nightmare on match days. Some people don’t mind but I think the council are wishful thinking with all this. i saw their remedy is for residents to shut windows on match days. Makes you wonder who will buy the flats and the quality of them

 

[Kat_r]

A bit of congestion for an hour or so every fortnight is not a major problem. Dozens of towns and cities cope with football crowds of up to 70000 every weekend.

Yes but Southend population vs football fans is in the general populations favour. It won’t be pretty with all the congestion