Progressive tax

[Lord Football]

yay Lord Football is online, let's see how he justifies me paying his wages

Or me paying for your free health care, your eldery grandparents meals on wheels, your kids dentist bills, your kids prescriptions, the roads you drive on, etc etc etc

 

[Hotman]

The Taxation System needs a complete overhaul.

Currently the vast majority of us pay at source as part of the PAYE scheme. As we saw recently with SUFC, that doesn't necessarily mean our taxes are actually passed onto HMRC. However, the money is taken from our salaries. We've paid our bit.

There is however a significant number of people and big businesses who avoid the tax system altogether by using off shored accounts, or tax havens as they are more commonly known. The Governement needs to be bringing in legislation to close these loopholes in the tax system.



Well you'd think so, wouldn't you. But it is not the case. In the last 5 years HMRC has shed 25000 jobs. The result is that we now have not collected £110bn in taxation. Additional to that is that we now £30bn of known debt that still needs to be collected. The main target of this debt collection are "easy targets", that is people who have been overpaid Tax Credits and small businesses. The very people the taxation should be there to protect. Big businesses are far too resource intensive to deal with, so essentially, we don't.

Another 5% will be cut in the next 12 months and further 5% the year after. What this has resulted in, aside from a much smaller and less efficient Department, is a situation where the more experienced people are taking early retirements, leaving a widening knowlegde gap behind them. I speak from experience from the old Customs Department, where you literally had officers sniffing out fraud. That wiley knowledge of the world is going. We are also seeing the top brass being recruited in from outside industry. On the board of HMRC there is only ONE person who has any tax collecting experience at all.

What is needed is a properly resourced and managed tax collecting agency, ensuring that people pay what they should be, and those who evade and avoid are detected, monies collected and where necessary punished.

Of course if we had a properly resourced HMRC, we wouldn't be looking at paying an extra .5% on NI, or looking at reduced public services because we'd be collecting that £110bn +£30bn. Before anyone goes on about salaray cost, the average cost of employing one person is £38k a year (that includes all the overheads such as accommodation etc, salaries are much less) that person will collect £668k of taxation a year on average. A profit of nearly 2000%. Similarly every £1 invested in Debt Management yields £300. A profit of 300%. (these figures are taken from answers to Parliamentary Questions). What other business has a profit margin like that.

Of course, personally, I think the richer should pay more. Anyone who claims they cannot live on a salary of £150k has a real problem in my eyes. The real equality issue is that the rich don't tend to spend their income, and as a result become richer, whereas those of who do not have that luxury, become poorer.

Surely simplification of the tax system would eradicate most of the problems and reduce the need for the wiley old hands?

 

[Lord Football]

Surely simplification of the tax system would eradicate most of the problems and reduce the need for the wiley old hands?

My opening line.... "The Taxation System needs a complete overhaul."


Let me put it this way. Ron Martin decides to cut costs, he sells Barnard, Barrett, McCormack, Midlenhall and Francis and rakes in a few £m. He replaces them with kids from the Youth Side, who may have spent some time sitting on the bench, and in training. What do you think the result against Millwall would be? Do you think we'd do well? Or do you think eventually we'd settle for an away draw at Accrington in L2?

 

[DTS]

MC,

100% totally with all you say.

Nothing ****s me off more than people using hard luck stories to justify achieving **** all. Its his fault, its her fault....All bollocks. Life is what you make it. If you dont like your situation then you work hard to change it. Some people have come out of amazing amounts of adversity and made millions....Its all a state of mind.

I spent the past three years a higher rate tax payer and it pained me every month to think I was paying 40% tax while some lazy *******s who cant be arsed to work really pay 20% (Was 22%).

By the time you have paid you stamp and tax you get about half what you have earned. For example one Dec I earned almost bang on £10000 gross for a months work and yet I took home £5200....

A equal percentage based on what you earn would for my mind be more than fair. The problem with the current system is there is so little incentive to work hard. The new higher rate tax band will only in my opinion stiffle development and probablt discourage the top talent from coming and staying in the UK.

Personally I would like to see and end to all goverment financial support for people except disabled and elderly (UK residents only). Too many people playing the system and cant be arsed to work as they make more money doing **** all and we are paying for them.

And before any of the lefties go...Its ok for you.....I can tell you I havent had a penny from anyone. Dad raised me as a single parent from aged six, we were never poor but dont think anyone can say we were rich, I have got 5 gsce's nothing above a c grade and three a levels (all d's) - crap really.

But the one thing I have got above 99% I know is drive and desire. I will never give up and I will never stop trying to fight, I do a fairly simpe job (Financial Advisor/Mortgage Broker) yet I do it to the best of my ability and I never stop trying to move on or trying to be the best. sadly under the current goverment thats not rewarded or welcomed and at least an equal percentage for all would reward all the hard workers in the world.

 

[Lord Football]

MC,

100% totally with all you say.

Nothing ****s me off more than people using hard luck stories to justify achieving **** all. Its his fault, its her fault....All bollocks. Life is what you make it. If you dont like your situation then you work hard to change it. Some people have come out of amazing amounts of adversity and made millions....Its all a state of mind.

I spent the past three years a higher rate tax payer and it pained me every month to think I was paying 40% tax while some lazy *******s who cant be arsed to work really pay 20% (Was 22%).

By the time you have paid you stamp and tax you get about half what you have earned. For example one Dec I earned almost bang on £10000 gross for a months work and yet I took home £5200....

A equal percentage based on what you earn would for my mind be more than fair. The problem with the current system is there is so little incentive to work hard. The new higher rate tax band will only in my opinion stiffle development and probablt discourage the top talent from coming and staying in the UK.

Personally I would like to see and end to all goverment financial support for people except disabled and elderly (UK residents only). Too many people playing the system and cant be arsed to work as they make more money doing **** all and we are paying for them.

And before any of the lefties go...Its ok for you.....I can tell you I havent had a penny from anyone. Dad raised me as a single parent from aged six, we were never poor but dont think anyone can say we were rich, I have got 5 gsce's nothing above a c grade and three a levels (all d's) - crap really.

But the one thing I have got above 99% I know is drive and desire. I will never give up and I will never stop trying to fight, I do a fairly simpe job (Financial Advisor/Mortgage Broker) yet I do it to the best of my ability and I never stop trying to move on or trying to be the best. sadly under the current goverment thats not rewarded or welcomed and at least an equal percentage for all would reward all the hard workers in the world.

Working hard, its nothing special. Quite a lot of people do it actually. Most don't bring home anything like £5200 in 6 months, let alone a month.

I'd rather hoped you'd more "I am doing my bit for society" rather than "me, me, me". Oh, and I have been on a higher tax band in my past.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Well DtS, that's ****ing great, but you can't possibly allow for being shafted by someone who purports to be the person who loves you, when you've done everything you can to uphold your part of the bargain.

 

[weststander]

If you were to earn 70k, you'd say that £100k would mean living like a king.

Probably, but if i can live on what i earn, and it is my choice to do the job i do and i have no debt at all, then people that winge that they are unable to live on £70k per year need to learn some serious financial management.

 

[DTS]

Working hard, its nothing special. Quite a lot of people do it actually. Most don't bring home anything like £5200 in 6 months, let alone a month.

I'd rather hoped you'd more "I am doing my bit for society" rather than "me, me, me". Oh, and I have been on a higher tax band in my past.

At the end of the day its everyman for himself and if you think any different then think you being a mug to to yourseld. It is all me me me as I dont need to rely on others to provide for me.

Maybe if others did the same we wouldn't be in such a state as a nation.

 

[Lord Football]

At the end of the day its everyman for himself and if you think any different then think you being a mug to to yourseld. It is all me me me as I dont need to rely on others to provide for me.

Maybe if others did the same we wouldn't be in such a state as a nation.

So, when you lose your job, what happens? You may be grateful for the Welfare State then.

Don't say it wont happen, it can happen to anyone of us at any time. Especially now. I don't think some of those in the financial sector who were laid off last November thought it would happen to them, and I doubt many of them have managed to find re-employment in that sector.

 

[MK Shrimper]

At the end of the day its everyman for himself and if you think any different then think you being a mug to to yourseld. It is all me me me as I dont need to rely on others to provide for me.

Maybe if others did the same we wouldn't be in such a state as a nation.

Well despite what some of you probably think, I've got no time for spongers and the work-shy, but people fall into difficulties through no fault of their own, due to a myriad of unforeseen circumstances. A modern, progressive society has a duty to care for these people otherwise it's back to Victorian Britain and the workhouse.

 

[Hotman]

Surely having sufficient savings to cover unexpected eventualities is basic financial responsibility - and should be down to each individual? Again, focusing on what is in your control.

And if you can't afford to save a small amount, you are spending too much.

 

[DTS]

So, when you lose your job, what happens? You may be grateful for the Welfare State then.

Don't say it wont happen, it can happen to anyone of us at any time. Especially now. I don't think some of those in the financial sector who were laid off last November thought it would happen to them, and I doubt many of them have managed to find re-employment in that sector.

Lost my job 18 months ago ( 12 weeks before my wife was due) , had my CV in the market the same day I was told business I was in was folding called every recruitment company I could find . One week four interviews and three job offers later I took a new job and I was infact paid for two weeks by both my old company and my new one.

Didnt take a job I really wanted (Went from working for myself to working for a retail bank which is a downward step but hey wanted to work and wanted the money)

Had I not been able to get a jon straight away I had saved about a years worth of money to keep me going over my working career and from when the market was good knowing at some point I would need it.........

Expect you will tell me how lucky I am now????

 

[MK Shrimper]

Surely having sufficient savings to cover unexpected eventualities is basic financial responsibility - and should be down to each individual? Again, focusing on what is in your control.

And if you can't afford to save a small amount, you are spending too much.

So lets say a 19 yo soldier gets injured fighting in Afghanistan and is permanently disabled. How exactly would his miniscule savings keep him for the rest of his life?

You're telling me someone like that doesn't deserve a state handout?

 

[Boreham Shrimper]

At the end of the day its everyman for himself and if you think any different then think you being a mug to to yourseld. It is all me me me as I dont need to rely on others to provide for me.

Maybe if others did the same we wouldn't be in such a state as a nation.

Great couple of posts :clap:

I don't see why the hell those people who work hard for themselves should be forced to pay for those who can't be arsed. The state should provide for those that genuinely need assistance (disabled, elderly, recently redundant etc.) but the current situation where it is more financially rewarding for people to stay at home on benefits than to go out to work and pay tax is frankly ridiculous. Money paid to those out of work must be linked to encouraging them to go back into work (although that may be somewhat difficult given the fact that there are no jobs available!).

On the other hand, the government has encouraged so many people to go to "universities" whilst causing unprecedented levels of student debt through tuition fees and a frankly pathetically small basic level maintenance loan. It was a real kick in the teeth to apply for my loan for the first time in 2006 and be told that I was not eligible because my parents were "rich". Somebody had better tell my dad that if that's the case! This does not encourage true independence and responsibility but links you yet again to your parents who are obliged to give you yet more money just so you can afford to live.

It's about time that people took some responsibility and were encouraged to do the best they can for themselves. The way you do that is through encouraging enterprise, not by introducing yet more tax on jobs as the government is doing through another National Insurance increase. At the moment we have a generation of young people who are coming out of school/universities with no prospect of employment. Many of my friends are now either on unemployment benefit or working in Pizza Hut after having graduated with 2:1 or First Class degrees!

 

[Hotman]

So lets say a 19 yo soldier gets injured fighting in Afghanistan and is permanently disabled. How exactly would his miniscule savings keep him for the rest of his life?

You're telling me someone like that doesn't deserve a state handout?

No, but his insurances that any responsible individual would have should cover these eventualities. Just how I have insurances to cover eventualities that would stop me generating the parts of my income that I am personally responsible for.

The savings would ideally produce a recurring income for him, but obviously in this case he'd have had enough opportunity to save enough to cover essential expenses for two months. His resettlement allowance and army pension would help too :) But I don't see why I should contribute more to it than you... after all, we're acheiving "equal" benefit from his services.

 

[DTS]

So lets say a 19 yo soldier gets injured fighting in Afghanistan and is permanently disabled. How exactly would his miniscule savings keep him for the rest of his life?

You're telling me someone like that doesn't deserve a state handout?

Agree fully - hero and worthy of a good pay out.

Would however add for a small amount per month get insurance and recieve a pay out in the event of a injury. And before anyone says soldiers cant get cover yes they can from specialist insurance polcies by companys such as AIG.

 

[Pubey]

****ing bloody deserve it, am hardening up all the time

I'm hardening up all the time just reading this post.

Personally I feel that to move forward you need to draw a line under the past. Generally you learn from tough times and mistakes, but agree that life is what you make of it.

Kay, my advice is that if you want to sort things out then press Alt + F4

 

[EastStandBlue]

The job I'm in at the moment, in footballing terms it'd be a "pay as you play" contract. At this moment of time (specifically this time of year) consistent hours are few and far between. I'd actually earn more money if I was unemployed claiming benefits. But, I don't, because I have more self respect than to sit on my arse, drinking special brew and watching Jeremy Kyle. It pains me that I pay my taxes to keep scum who do such a thing alive.

The thing most lacking from the current tax system is basic common sense. A CEO of a bank who takes home millions a year should, in my opinion, pay a higher tax band... especially if he's recieving some ludicrous bonus. Exactly the same situation with a professional footballer earning £50/60k a week. However, if someone works hard and takes home £10k in a calendar month because they've worked for it then they shouldn't pay 40% tax on it.

As for that EMA bull ****, then as far as I'm concerned that's the biggest waste of money I've seen. You're paying kids £30 to get an education? What? Why? Want to know how I earned money while at college? I got a ****ing part-time job, like the rest of my mates. The problem with EMA is it isn't situation-specific, it's type cast so, as a result, students undertaking 4 A-Levels in English, Maths and Sciences to get into University get exactly the same, or less, than the ****wit in the corner who's taking an AS Level in leisure and tourism because he's a lazy ****.

 

[steveo]

Oh, and I have been on a higher tax band in my past.

Did you donate all the excess to the unemployed in protest at the system or did you spend it frivolously on luxury goods for yourself?

 

[steveo]

Before anyone goes on about salaray cost, the average cost of employing one person is £38k a year (that includes all the overheads such as accommodation etc, salaries are much less) that person will collect £668k of taxation a year on average. A profit of nearly 2000%. Similarly every £1 invested in Debt Management yields £300. A profit of 300%. (these figures are taken from answers to Parliamentary Questions). What other business has a profit margin like that.

But can you really class it as a profit and how much of that money is paid by workers on PAYE who will always pay and never cause a problem, or do you mean these poeple have had to hunt down the tax dodgers?