SF 1 - King Henry VIII v Horatio Nelson

[Napster]

Dave Smiths Love Child - King Henry VIII

v

canveyshrimper - Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, 1st Duke of Bronté, KB

To be decided Wednesday - final from Wednesday to Friday.

 

[steveo]

Sorry Henry your time is up

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

Let battle commence Steveo

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

Henry The Eighth The Hero

We can all make a case against someone and Henry is no different, infact it could be said he was a villian more often than not.

We have to go back to an age, when even your family would stab you in the back to gain the throne and Henry was no different.

Rumours were circulated that Henry was not of noble blood line and infact from a commoner heaven forbid and perhaps this canbe a reason why he became larger than life in history.

A King who gave the foundation of the Navy without this, Nelson may have been a frenchman , because we would not have withstood a French/Spanish combined invasion, and with the Scots willing to join the French in abattle against the English, it would not take a genius to work out the result

Henry understood this and strove to heal wounds between us and European and got the ten year peace treaty signed, in an era when war was expected this is truly a master stroke

I fully appreciate this could be one of Mr Popular poster who wins a rather than vote on the Greatest Hero, but without Henry we may not be talking English let alone writing about him

More to follow as the contest hots up

 

[OldBlueLady]

Really, really difficult one this for me.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Easy vote Nelson Kay.

Another very tough tie for my nomination, and Bald Eagle's Illicit Progeny has advocated his case brilliantly so far.

Possibly our greatest ever naval hero, victor at Copenhagen, The Nile and finally Trafalgar where his action saw off the potential invasion of Britain from the sea by the French & Spanish.

Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, 1st Duke of Bronté, KB (29 September 1758 – 21 October 1805) was a British flag officer famous for his service in the Royal Navy, particularly during the Napoleonic Wars. He won several victories, including the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805, during which he was killed.

Nelson was born into a moderately prosperous Norfolk family, and joined the navy through the influence of his uncle, Maurice Suckling. He rose rapidly through the ranks and served with leading naval commanders of the period before obtaining his own command in 1778. He developed a reputation in the service through his personal valour and firm grasp of tactics, but suffered periods of illness and unemployment after the end of the American War of Independence. The outbreak of the French Revolutionary Wars allowed Nelson to return to service, where he was particularly active in the Mediterranean. He fought in several minor engagements off Toulon, and was important in the capture of Corsica and subsequent diplomatic duties with the Italian states. In 1797 he distinguished himself while in command of HMS Captain at the Battle of Cape St Vincent.

Shortly after the battle, Nelson took part in the Battle of Santa Cruz de Tenerife, where he was badly wounded and forced to return to England to recuperate. The following year he won a decisive victory over the French at the Battle of the Nile and remained in the Mediterranean to support the Kingdom of Naples against a French invasion. In 1801 he was dispatched to the Baltic and won another victory, this time over the Danes at the Battle of Copenhagen. He subsequently commanded the blockade of the French and Spanish fleets at Toulon, and after their escape chased them to the West Indies and back but failed to bring them to battle. After a brief return to England, he took over the Cádiz blockade in 1805. On 21 October 1805 the Franco-Spanish fleet came out of port and Nelson's fleet engaged them at the Battle of Trafalgar. The battle was Britain's greatest naval victory, but Nelson was hit by a French sniper and mortally wounded. His body was brought back to England where he was accorded a state funeral.

Nelson was noted for his ability to inspire and bring out the best in his men: the 'Nelson touch'. His grasp of strategy and unconventional tactics produced a number of decisive victories. Some aspects of his behaviour were controversial during his lifetime and after: he began a notorious affair with Emma, Lady Hamilton while both were married, which lasted until his death. Also, his actions during the Neapolitan campaign resulted in allegations of excessive brutality. Nelson could at times be vain, insecure and overly anxious for recognition, but he was also zealous, patriotic and dutiful, as well as courageous. He was wounded several times in combat, losing most of one arm and the sight in one eye. His death at Trafalgar secured his position as one of England's most heroic figures. Numerous monuments, including Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square, London, have been created in his memory and his legacy remains highly influential.

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

Did he lose an eye?

I think you will find he never lost an eye, but was slightly blinded by sand, hence why Nelson Column shows him without an eye patch.

But I bow down to your knowledge of this leader

 

[canveyshrimper]

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

Henry The Eighth Pacifier of England

With the threat of the North threatening to Split England into a civil war and death of Robert Aske a Northern rebel in 1540, Henry rode to York to met the people who had loved Richard III, but hated this new King, because of a betrayal they had been lead to believe by Northern rebels

Henry took a pilgrimage to the Heart of York, and sat and listened to disputes from lowly farmers to rich Earls who wanted to buy up more land, now the monastries ahd been laid to rest.

Henry was wise and forsaw the problems from both parties, one he had to gain the poor to believe in his rules and yet pacify the rich, who's power he may need at a later date.
He also invited King James of Scotland to York, to talk about peace and power sharing within the United Kingdom ( Though is another tale to be told).

For a king to sit and arbitrate on such trivial matter (for a king), made the people of York see him in a diffrerent, though I have no doubt some were treated harshly and went back to conspire against him, it showed him as a common people person and one that only wanted peace to England and watch the country grow and prosper

 

[canveyshrimper]

Did he lose an eye?

I think you will find he never lost an eye, but was slightly blinded by sand, hence why Nelson Column shows him without an eye patch.

But I bow down to your knowledge of this leader

In all probability yes, his eye was not externally damaged hence he did not wear a patch. Hence no patch on his statue and nor for that matter on any portrait of the man.

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

In all probability yes, his eye was not externally damaged hence he did not wear a patch. Hence no patch on his statue and nor for that matter on any portrait of the man.

So your opening gambit is incorrect on someone you are trying to validate as an English hero, has Wikkipedia cut and paste gone wrong !!! LOL

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Tough call. Gone for Henry, a greater influence on the culture of our country.

 

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

Well my last throw of the dice is to convince floating voters of Henry the Eighth from someone who has studied and admired and loathed him for years, as opposed to my opposite number who seems to have cut and pasted and added infactual notes re him.

I do feel the influence this man/king had on the country made it the Country we love, without him, the country would have been over run by the French, Spanish and even the Scots, he ideas for rebuilding fortress, the navy and schools have all been part of our hertitage and still stand the test of time, we can easier go on about his marriages and the Church ( Though reformation gave this country a new outlook on religion and forced The Enlightenment some years after), but at the end of the day Henry believed in England and a United Kingdom, and that to me is why he will allways be a hero.

VOTE Henry !!!

 

[canveyshrimper]

By the very nature of Britain being an island has always meant that any threat to us would come from the see (until they built the Channel Tunnel that is). Therefore the defence of our Island nation has produced some of our greatest heroes and adventurers. Drake, Genville, Rodney, Jellicoe (we've got a pub named after him on Canvey) to name a few. But Nelson was possibly the greatest of them all. He defeated the French & Spanish at Trafalgar thus stopping the planned invasion, and while Napoleon remained a threat on mainland Europe (and to Russia) he was never really a direct threat to our Islands again.

Fair play to Henry VIII who to a considerable degree helped to lay the foundations for our Royal Navy, but Nelson won many decisive battles ultimately paying with his life.

Thanks to those who have supported Nelson so far.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Undoubtedly Nelson was the greatest sea faring hero and this should have been the final imo, but, having reflected long and hard my vote goes to the King for pretty much the reasons DS says above. Sorry Harry.