Show Racism The Red Card - Tomorrow

[Pubey]

Brilliant post and absolutely spot on. Some times there is a myth that racism is a one way street, which clearly at times it isnt. Much racial tension and trouble is often between groups of the same color, regardless of what color that may be.

Unfortunately in modern society it is ok for people from the same race to use certain terms, but as soon as some of a different race uses the phrase its deemed racist. The post that's mentions one group against discrimination is spot on. Its not about black on white or white on Asian, Asian on black. Racism and discrimination come in many different forms and its about time people woke up to this.

So are you saying that if it's ok for an person from Pakistan to use the 'p' word, or a black person to use the 'n' word, then it should be ok for a white person to use the 'p' or 'n' word?

 

[Pubey]

My opinions are my opinions and without starting off another thread for the PC brigade I would just add this - in my lifetime racism in my experience is a lot worse towards myself (A white Englishman in his early thirties) than I have dished out or seen/heard myself.

Until the age of 9 I attended a school in East London in a class of just three white kids, on a daily basis I was subjected to "Milky Bar kid", "Casper" and "White Honkey" jibes and I can assure you not once was anything ever raised.

I have played football at Semi Pro level for over a decade, represented Essex, East Anglia and East of England teams and I can assure you that at times I was left of groups in training and meals and made to feel ostracised because I didn't fit in with the black boys, at times this was even openly admitted.

I think everyone is far too precious in our country and the discrimination only seems to works one way, people live in fear of having an opinion and certainly expressing it, so much so that it breads this whole 'racism' outlook. For example, why can there be Asian football leagues, you have some areas where white folk cannot visit in fear of trouble. You then have the MOBO awards, how does that work. At one of the leading Banks where I work they have the "Rainbow Group" for homosexual and bisexual staff only. You could even go as far as saying Sheila's wheels which offered women cheaper car insurance - all these things discriminate against me but I don't feel the need to start campaigns and groups to ostracise myself from society.

All these organised groups like "Kick it out" are just brining up issues when it doesn't need to be addressed, you could even say fuel the so called racists with publicity. This is England and there will always be isolated incidents because of whatever reason, what help do these groups actually do. Maybe they should look closer to home with players like Rio Ferdinand calling his former England colleague Ashley Cole a "Choc Ice". If that was a white male like John Terry or Wayne Rooney, all hell would have broke out!!! #justsaying. Then you have the double standards, was it Jason Roberts and a few other black guys refused to where the "Kick it out t-shirts" in a form of protest, imagine a few white guys did that!!!!

The whole word racism is not something anyone would like to be associated with and rightly so, but making people live in fear of their innocent words and phrases being twisted and questioned is arguably just as much a form of bullying.

How about stop flagging up the issues by ramming these pointless events it down peoples throats and stop publicising issues that are hardly there.

I find it strange that you can be a victim of racism and then downplay the experience of other victims of racism.

Yes there could be an inconsistency in how racism is dealt with depending on who is the victim, and yes white males can be victims of racism, but two wrongs don't make a right - use your experience to emphasise with the great deal of racist abuse which falls on people from other ethnicities, rather than making trite statements like "in my lifetime racism in my experience is a lot worse towards myself (A white Englishman in his early thirties)." While that could be your own experience, it doesn't reflect reality.

I'd rather start by tackling racist abuse towards ethnic minorities, especially considering the privilege which is afforded to white males compared to females and other ethnicities. That's what a lot of these movements in football are looking to do. I don't see any need to resist that.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

So are you saying that if it's ok for an person from Pakistan to use the 'p' word, or a black person to use the 'n' word, then it should be ok for a white person to use the 'p' or 'n' word?

Yes.......

 

[mgh]

Yes.......

No. Absolutely does not understand the motivations for using this. In what context can '****' ever be acceptable uttered by a non-Pakistani?

 

[Pubey]

Yes.......

Those words are hardly ever used in a positive way by white people, it's nearly always abusive. Just because some asian and black people (not all) have looked to reclaim their usage and normalise it, in my opinion it doesn't make it acceptable for a white person to use them in any way. There are loads of reasons for this, which in general is why it's not seen as acceptable in any area of society and when its tried to creep into hip-hop culture/sport or whatever, white people have been (rightly) castigated for it.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

Those words are hardly ever used in a positive way by white people, it's nearly always abusive. Just because some asian and black people (not all) have looked to reclaim their usage and normalise it, in my opinion it doesn't make it acceptable for a white person to use them in any way. There are loads of reasons for this, which in general is why it's not seen as acceptable in any area of society and when its tried to creep into hip-hop culture/sport or whatever, white people have been (rightly) castigated for it.

So because it was once seen as racist I now can't sing along to songs that have this 'n' word in it? Jesus, half my collection on my phone say the 'n' word about 3 times a song. Why is it okay for black people to say this but I can't? I just don't see why this is the case.

You rarely hear of white racism, but for arguments sake, image the white hip hop scene escalated and the in word to use was 'snowy', theoretically making this the 's' word. Why would they be able to say this, but if a black person were to say it, they would call them racist?

I'm not saying I wanna call every black person a n*****, I just don't understand the almost double standards of it. And I do understand that not all black people use the 'n' word.

 

[mgh]

singing along to a song is different to directly addressing a black person as 'n*****'. offensive words which are reclaimed by a group are still offensive when used by someone outside that group unless they are explicitly part of that group. Tarantino has a lot to answer for!

 

[Pubey]

So because it was once seen as racist I now can't sing along to songs that have this 'n' word in it? Jesus, half my collection on my phone say the 'n' word about 3 times a song. Why is it okay for black people to say this but I can't? I just don't see why this is the case.

You rarely hear of white racism, but for arguments sake, image the white hip hop scene escalated and the in word to use was 'snowy', theoretically making this the 's' word. Why would they be able to say this, but if a black person were to say it, they would call them racist?

I'm not saying I wanna call every black person a n*****, I just don't understand the almost double standards of it. And I do understand that not all black people use the 'n' word.

I genuinely love rap and hip-hop, but have always been a bit uncomfortable with the proliferate usage that the n word gets (let's focus on that).

Firstly - if we started calling each other 'snowy' - we wouldn't be able to argue against other races using that because to that point it wouldn't have had centuries of being used as offensive racist term which was used to oppress and maintain oppression of a whole race of people.

Secondly - because white people have such a history of being racist to people from other races, and exercising the privileges that they have, I believe we've waived our right to use that term.

Thirdly - I think we should listen to black people about whether it's acceptable or not acceptable to use a term to describe them. That's just good manners, as the most basic level.

There are more but you can just google 'why it's not acceptable to use the n word' and get millions of hits. I'm tired and got more work to try and finish...

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

singing along to a song is different to directly addressing a black person as 'n*****'. offensive words which are reclaimed by a group are still offensive when used by someone outside that group unless they are explicitly part of that group. Tarantino has a lot to answer for!

No I get that it's how it's used, I really do and believe me I wouldn't confront someone who's black with that word. But I just don't get why it's unacceptable for white people to use it. I literally don't understand that bit.

 

[Pubey]

No I get that it's how it's used, I really do and believe me I wouldn't confront someone who's black with that word. But I just don't get why it's unacceptable for white people to use it. I literally don't understand that bit.

The fundamental reason is that white people have used that term for centuries as a way to abuse and oppress black people. It's understandable that a black person will take offense at a white person saying it, irrespective of what their intentions are.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I am happy to just write 'this' after each of Pubey's posts on this thread.

 

[applelover]

I am happy to just write 'this' after each of Pubey's posts on this thread.

This!

Well done Pubey. The voice of reason.

 

[steveo]

There doesn't have to be double standards, it can easily be one standard
.

Is there a National White Police officers association?

A non black police officer can only join the National Black Police officers association as an associate member, so surely they are being discriminated against due to their race.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Is there a National White Police officers association?

A non black police officer can only join the National Black Police officers association as an associate member, so surely they are being discriminated against due to their race.

It's because the police force is very white and has on numerous occasions been deemed to be institutionally racist - things like that will encourage non whites to sign up and in turn change the way the police force is perceived potentially changes too. I would imagine most police officers would be in support of anything that improves their image. You may be right though maybe they do want to join the National Black a Police Officers Association - if they really want to join that much they could maybe negotiate a rule change.

 

[fbm]

The whole issue of racism is very tricky. In mine and many other peoples eyes, racism in our everyday lives cannot really exist without discrimination as well. That doesn't really sit with name calling.

As mentioned elsewhere, is calling someone "A black c..." different to calling someone "A ginger c..."? And actually, what is the real insult? The focus is on the description rather than the real insult, the "C " word. I never quite used to get that either.

Having lots of black friends doesn't mean you're not racist. There is also a difference between being racist and nationalist, which in my opinion is where Ukip sits and that in itself, for me, is a different worry.

But to properly understand it, you would have to study the history and realise just how much the black race has come through over the last few hundred years. Our ancestors were not nice people and many of us aren't very nice people either, in terms of living together in the world. We are an island race and colonisation is in our blood; we descend on countries with sunnier climates to live as ex-pats and immediately set up British bars and restaurants and open English speaking schools. We rarely live the life of the local and learn a smattering of the language only, yet cry "foul" if immigrants wish to do the same here. Also, the white male in the UK has probably never been subjected to the sort of racism that does the harm; having something like the National Black Police Officers Association may seem to be reverse racism of sorts, but it has been set up to protect the interests of the minority BECAUSE of the racism that exists or, hopefully, existed. Small steps. In time hopefully it won't be necessary.

We are the ones guilty of double standards here - not everyone of course, I'm speaking generally - and whilst the best way of dealing with racism would be to completely NOT draw attention to anything at all, as also mentioned earlier in this thread, sadly that just isn't possible at this time and it is, in my opinion, going to take several generations of living under legislation before that becomes anything like normal. There are far too many deep rooted prejudices in far too many small minded, bigoted people for that kind of behaviour to be eliminated overnight WITHOUT the assistance of the law.

We are in an era where toleration rather than integration is the key. There are too many cultural differences for races to properly integrate in my opinion but toleration should be very easy and the colour of the skin is irrelevant, in the same way that the colour of your eyes are.

The Luton chant of "Our support is English", on it's own, was tongue in cheek and probably would have brought a mild smile to many faces (even the ones in the Luton crowd who, considering the population, were 99% white). However, the back up shouts of "F... off back to Asia" and other similar shouts are absolutely not and this is why the whole thing sits uncomfortably. If the shouts had been isolated, then I'm sure some people would have rounded on the offender; however, coming on the back of the larger chant, it gave the whole thing credence and certainly the impression that it was the voice of the mob, not one person.

This is why it's important not to allow anything, because the lines of what is funny and offensive become incredibly blurred.

 

[David Icke]

It should be noted that about a third of English folk are to some degree racist - according to recent surveys. It is also suggested the figure was higher than this, with people not wishing to admit to it because of current attitudes. This in mind 'a kick racism BACK INTO football' campaign every third year could be seen as truly representative of the people. Lol.

 

[steveo]

It's because the police force is very white and has on numerous occasions been deemed to be institutionally racist - things like that will encourage non whites to sign up and in turn change the way the police force is perceived potentially changes too. I would imagine most police officers would be in support of anything that improves their image. You may be right though maybe they do want to join the National Black a Police Officers Association - if they really want to join that much they could maybe negotiate a rule change.

So you agree then that non blacks are being racially discriminated against. Why don't you make a case for these poor souls?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

So you agree then that non blacks are being racially discriminated against. Why don't you make a case for these poor souls?

I have plans to make awareness raising necklaces. 'Let any white officer (who wants to)join the Black Police Officers Association' pedant.

I apologise for any spelling mistakes, entirely unintentional.

 

[MK Shrimper]

This!

Well done Pubey. The voice of reason.

And this thirded. Pubey for PM! :clap:

 

[steveo]

And this thirded. Pubey for PM! :clap:

I think we should see how his F1 2015 driver line up predictions work out before we start getting too far ahead of ourselves.