Simon Dobbin Verdicts

[kaymac]

Hindsight is brilliant, isn't it?

 

[Lord Football]

For what reason would I be happy or unhappy. If Simon Dobbin was my son or brother then I would be very unhappy.

The 3 or 4 people who actually did the damage have got off very lightly. I would have preferred the police to have charged them with GBH with intent. Instead they went for a one charge fits all to get more people, some of whom are unlikely to have had any contact with Simon.

I would also be asking the police some serious questions about the days events. From why did they allow those coaches to travel. Why did they allow away fans to walk past the Railway, after they had stood down on a day that was unprecedented for the number of incidents of organised attacks on the pubs around the ground.

I would like to speak to the Cambridge fans who never gave evidence and ask them why?

I think I've travelled to pretty much every away game I've been to (over 300) on unofficial coaches, be they Blues on Tour, Paul Holland (RIP) or TZ. I note a group of our lads went to Wimbledon by boat. Again unofficial. If you stop every unofficial coach or group travelling, you stop a serious wedge of our own support from travelling. In all probability the police didn't know about a coach until such point as it arrived.

Why would the police not stand down at 7pm when the trouble element from Cambridge had gone home? Do you think our limited force should be hanging around Roots Hall on a Saturday night.

Why would they stop anyone from walking past the Railway pub on their way to Prittlewell Station?

The key to this of course is that the trouble element from Cambridge had gone home, as would the massive majority of Southend fans. So any risk assessor will tell you there was no risk. It just so happened on this occasion a group of lads conspired to kick off again.

 

[rigsby]

Hindsight is brilliant, isn't it?

Myself and several others decided not to go in the Spread after the game because of how the Cambridge mob had behaved so far and how out of depth the police had looked when dealing with them.

I would call that foresight.......bearing in mind what happened a few hours later

 

[rigsby]

I think I've travelled to pretty much every away game I've been to (over 300) on unofficial coaches, be they Blues on Tour, Paul Holland (RIP) or TZ. I note a group of our lads went to Wimbledon by boat. Again unofficial. If you stop every unofficial coach or group travelling, you stop a serious wedge of our own support from travelling. In all probability the police didn't know about a coach until such point as it arrived.

Why would the police not stand down at 7pm when the trouble element from Cambridge had gone home? Do you think our limited force should be hanging around Roots Hall on a Saturday night.

Why would they stop anyone from walking past the Railway pub on their way to Prittlewell Station?

The key to this of course is that the trouble element from Cambridge had gone home, as would the massive majority of Southend fans. So any risk assessor will tell you there was no risk. It just so happened on this occasion a group of lads conspired to kick off again.

Anyone like yourself who has been to so many games would know that hanging around ANY football ground 2 hrs after a game let alone if there has been trouble that day carries a risk.......No fancy title no clip board just common sense.

The police made it clear during the court case that the fans I am talking about were 'risk' fans and they had intel on them.
They had their own website and had been boasting of taking Pompey and Luton. A far cry from the 250 on the boat to Wimbledon, of which I was one of them.

 

[Tampa Blue]

This has all got very complicated for me - but then I am easily confused.

So a hypothetical situation.

• I decide to go and watch Southend at an away match.
• There is trouble between home supporters and some Southend supporters in a location that I am not in.
• The taunting continues throughout the match.
• After the match there is more trouble between the home supporters and the Southend supporters that again I am not part of.
• Having not been a part of the previous violence and perhaps being unaware of the scale of such violence then I decide to have a few beers after the match with mates.
• Having not been involved in any trouble whilst having a beer, I then walk back to the railway station to go back to Southend when I get attacked by some home supporters unhappy with the previous actions of the other Southend supporters that again I was not part of.

If that was the case then why would my Prosecution Team request that these other Southend supporters should appear in court? They were nothing to do with me.

As far as I can see then the only people that would want their attendance and testimony would be the Defence Lawyers presumably in an attempt to justify that I had previously been involved in violence and that this somehow justified my being attacked.

As far as I can see, though their actions would be totally unacceptable, these actions were not associated to the action of me being attacked by the home supporters who may have assumed that I was part of the initial problem.

Would this not be a failure of the Defence Lawyers to provide full details of any mitigating circumstances?

Apologies if I have got any of this incorrect.

 

[kaymac]

Looks about right to me, TB....

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sounds to me like you are not getting any reaction with your boring political ramblings so you'll try and spoil this thread as you like to make things personal as it makes you the centre of attention.

not really relevant to what I wrote. As you have had a visit to the police today to give evidence relating to this case you don't think it would be wise to refrain from discussing this case at length on social media?

 

[rigsby]

not really relevant to what I wrote. As you have had a visit to the police today to give evidence relating to this case you don't think it would be wise to refrain from discussing this case at length on social media?

Phone calls not a visit. I haven't discuss my bit on here, or mentioned any names, so no I won't be refraining.

 

[Lord Football]

Anyone like yourself who has been to so many games would know that hanging around ANY football ground 2 hrs after a game let alone if there has been trouble that day carries a risk.......No fancy title no clip board just common sense.

The police made it clear during the court case that the fans I am talking about were 'risk' fans and they had intel on them.
They had their own website and had been boasting of taking Pompey and Luton. A far cry from the 250 on the boat to Wimbledon, of which I was one of them.

I also know there is an element of risk when crossing the road........ but you know, I still do it. Everyday.
I catch planes. I had my kids vaccinated. I've been to Millwall in colours. I've been in pubs in Southend when there has been trouble.

If I've understood it, the fans you were talking about (the troublesome Cambridge coach) had gone home.

So, if your troublesome element has left town WHY would you want to continue to police it.

And your boat was not official. You were travelling unofficially. I travel unofficially every time I hop on a TZ coach. By your logic the police would be stopping all this. Fortunately, we don't live in North Korea and we are allowed to make our own way, organised or not, to watch football. And at NO POINT should the action of a couple of scrots mean travelling fans need to be regulated. Essentially, that is what you are (unintentionally) suggesting

 

[Lord Football]

Phone calls not a visit. I haven't discuss my bit on here, or mentioned any names, so no I won't be refraining.

And to be absolutely fair, this is an anonymous site where we post anonymously. So no one knows who Rigsby is and you don't find me in the House of Lords

 

[Magnum PI]

And to be absolutely fair, this is an anonymous site where we post anonymously. So no one knows who Rigsby is and you don't find me in the House of Lords

Brian Horton :)

 

[rigsby]

I also know there is an element of risk when crossing the road........ but you know, I still do it. Everyday.
I catch planes. I had my kids vaccinated. I've been to Millwall in colours. I've been in pubs in Southend when there has been trouble.

If I've understood it, the fans you were talking about (the troublesome Cambridge coach) had gone home.

So, if your troublesome element has left town WHY would you want to continue to police it.

And your boat was not official. You were travelling unofficially. I travel unofficially every time I hop on a TZ coach. By your logic the police would be stopping all this. Fortunately, we don't live in North Korea and we are allowed to make our own way, organised or not, to watch football. And at NO POINT should the action of a couple of scrots mean travelling fans need to be regulated. Essentially, that is what you are (unintentionally) suggesting

Haven't said either of those things but of course you know that.

You may well go to Col U on a TZ coach but I doubt you would go on the CS Gas Crew coach because after 300 away games you know the difference.......I hope.

Some of the Cambridge Crew actually arrived by train. They slapped a few Southend fans on the way (their words on their own dedicated hooligan website the next day). Then tried to get into the Railway as a group but luckily the guvnor shut and locked the door. They then headed to the Spread and slipped in in smaller groups, including those from the coaches over an about 50 minutes. Even chastising some excited younger members not to kick-off until they were confident that they out muscled any Southend fans who had not already left. Only then did they attack and even when the police arrived they were mighty pleased with themselves chanting "we're still in your pub."

Some of them didn't even go to the ground others left before half-time and went back to the Railway to have ago and then the Blue Bore. The landlady had to run to the ground and get the police because of their behaviour, even fighting amongst themselves. They then popped down the railway at full time for another go before being herded onto coaches in front of the Spread (see YouTube clip)

Not the actions of a group of scarfers on an unofficial coach. No they meant business, Cambridge police knew it and so did ours.

From what I am told some of the Southend fans who were 'slapped' on the train are Railway regulars even possible one of the convicted. I would suggest that trouble on the return journey was almost guaranteed. That's why you don't stand down your police before until all the away fans have left. Or been escorted out of town just like me and you have on numerous occasions.

 

[Lord Football]

Yes, I know that. Which is why I said, quite deliberately "unintentionally". So lets not try and score a point there, shall we.

The point you are absolutely failing to understand is an unofficial coach of hoolies isn't going to be phoning up Southend Bill and announce their arrival. So how would the police stop them coming. And it now seems it wasn't just a coach, they were on a train.

As it happens, whilst I wasn't in the Spread at the time. I was outside it kicked off. So I have some small idea of the scale of what we were talking about. Frankly. It wasn't much. Seen worse. Nothing to get excited about.

 

[rigsby]

Yes, I know that. Which is why I said, quite deliberately "unintentionally". So lets not try and score a point there, shall we.

The point you are absolutely failing to understand is an unofficial coach of hoolies isn't going to be phoning up Southend Bill and announce their arrival. So how would the police stop them coming. And it now seems it wasn't just a coach, they were on a train.

As it happens, whilst I wasn't in the Spread at the time. I was outside it kicked off. So I have some small idea of the scale of what we were talking about. Frankly. It wasn't much. Seen worse. Nothing to get excited about.

I think by their own evidence it was the police who expected that as they didn't stop the (empty) coach until Priory park.

If anything you cant accept that the police did know about this lot and failed miserably on the day. Not hard to follow a coach from Cambridge to Southend is it.

Next time your outside pop in a give a hand to us people who get excited and have never seen such scenes.

 

[Green Wizard]

Am I being naïve but shouldn't the truth be the most important thing? Not somebody allowed to make no comment because the truth might not help their defence.

 

[AndyT]

They were being monitored as a "risk" group from the outset. These are the words of the police at trial. This is different to, for example, a group of Southend fans on a boat to Wimbledon or a TZ coach to, say, Walsall.

Knowledge and intelligence surrounded their movement, that day. Extra police being radioed to assist at The Railway at 4:30pm, where a "gang" were attacking the pub, for example.

They were also on hand at The Spread, very quickly, cordoning off and securing the inside of the pub almost immediately. However, prior to this, the regular drinkers had been cornered by a locked door on the pool table side of the pub. Very unnerving.

The above is not the normal level of policing for a home match, so they were aware of the status of some of those travelling down.

No-one condones what happened to Simon Dobbin and let's hope that those convicted were those responsible, but what sits uneasily for me is that some people convicted of 'conspiracy' did little more or possibly even less than those that were the root cause of the problem that day.

As others have said, today, the case was trying those directly linked to the assault in Station Approach and the 'conspiring' to cause this. If that's the case, then they feel they have the people who did this. However, I'll be interested in the appeals on some of those who have been convicted by association, it seems. They seem no more culpable than those who caused the rise in tension in the first place, that day.

 

[shrimpfan]

Haven't said either of those things but of course you know that.

You may well go to Col U on a TZ coach but I doubt you would go on the CS Gas Crew coach because after 300 away games you know the difference.......I hope.

Some of the Cambridge Crew actually arrived by train. They slapped a few Southend fans on the way (their words on their own dedicated hooligan website the next day). Then tried to get into the Railway as a group but luckily the guvnor shut and locked the door. They then headed to the Spread and slipped in in smaller groups, including those from the coaches over an about 50 minutes. Even chastising some excited younger members not to kick-off until they were confident that they out muscled any Southend fans who had not already left. Only then did they attack and even when the police arrived they were mighty pleased with themselves chanting "we're still in your pub."

Some of them didn't even go to the ground others left before half-time and went back to the Railway to have ago and then the Blue Bore. The landlady had to run to the ground and get the police because of their behaviour, even fighting amongst themselves. They then popped down the railway at full time for another go before being herded onto coaches in front of the Spread (see YouTube clip)

Not the actions of a group of scarfers on an unofficial coach. No they meant business, Cambridge police knew it and so did ours.

From what I am told some of the Southend fans who were 'slapped' on the train are Railway regulars even possible one of the convicted. I would suggest that trouble on the return journey was almost guaranteed. That's why you don't stand down your police before until all the away fans have left. Or been escorted out of town just like me and you have on numerous occasions.

Not our police lost that to Essex long time ago. psu [police support unit] under gone specialist tactical training in public order and riot control.....didn't work Dobson should have been safe.

 

[Blues 'n twos]

Pretty damning evidence this text message!
14:52 - Ryan Carter to Jason Dockerty: “I am mate LOL got blood all off me shoe, when I said bad Jace, I mean bad, They chalk-marked his body and blues and twos to hospital.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.https://www.ehic.org.uk/Authenticat.../simon-dobbin-trial-prosecution-open-13143697

I was not there honest your honour. :smile:

 

[Lord Football]

I think by their own evidence it was the police who expected that as they didn't stop the (empty) coach until Priory park.

If anything you cant accept that the police did know about this lot and failed miserably on the day. Not hard to follow a coach from Cambridge to Southend is it.

Next time your outside pop in a give a hand to us people who get excited and have never seen such scenes.

To be absolutely honest, I was more surprised that in this day and age there was a scrap going on in a pub outside a football ground. Not sure the last time I saw that. But small beer compared to bad old days when you often ran a gauntlet past the Blue Boar or there was a mini riot going on outside the South Bank or any trip to Exeter in our promotion years. But then again, the very last thing I am ever likely to do is involve myself in a scrap. But if that kinda stuff floats your boat, so be it.

I will stand corrected if the Police were aware there was a problem coach coming down, its the first time I've heard that. It should at least have been monitored.

However, the point remains, those on that coach (and therefore the risk) had left by the time the assault took place.

 

[fbm]

Am I right in thinking that at least some of the guys in the Railway who have been convicted weren't even at the game due to a ban? And also weren't at the Spread either when it kicked off pre-match?