Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-3 Plymouth Argyle

[davewebbsbrain]

My thoughts on why we just hoof it from the back - there's nobody in the midfield with a "Give me the ball because I can pass it and you can't!" Timlin did exactly that.

Invariably Timlin passed the ball back to the opposition

 

[rayleigh dan]

Awful defending throughout, good to see Taylor Moore's tweet and hopefully he'll be back soon, has anyone heard how long until Lennon and Demi are fit? We desperately need a shake up in personel but options are limited right now

Couple the above with pointless continual hoofs to Cox and we had the recipe for a dreadful embarassingly poor performance against the team second from bottom in the league.

Turner in particular ****ed me off with his continual hoofing, if you're under pressure I can understand but he kept doing it regardless. Once in the second half he had an age on the ball,a simple pass forward to Dieng on, yet what does he do? You've guessed it, 'HOOF'

Bishop 6 - It was always going to be tough to match his Gills performance. I felt he did okay, kicking was good again and made one very good save in the first half. That throw for the third goal was bizarre, am I right in thinking that Elvis called for it? If so he should take most of the blame.

Bwomono 5 - I actually thought in general he was better than against Gills. The error mentioned above was a low point though.
White 6 - Pick of the defense, made one excellent block to deny Ladapo early on.
Turner 3 - Dreadful. The aforementioned constant hoofs annoyed, and he looked generally tentative and shaky thoughout. Inspires no confidence in the younger players around him.
Hendrie 5 - Pretty much the same as Elvis, did okay for much of the game and at least tried to help out going forward. The back headed error which led to the opener was bad though.

Bunn 6 - Looked bright early on, yet another injury. Is he made of glass!
Dieng 4 - Pinged a couple of nice cross field passes, and that was about it. Doesn't look a natural ball winner to me, on the few occasions he did try a tackle he gave away a free kick. I assume Hyam was signed as the ball winner in midfield, a shame he's been so poor recently too.
Mantom 4 - Have we ever had a less inspiring captain? Confidence looks shot, his game was summed up by that awful direct free kick attempt late on.
Yearwood 5 - The game passed him by for large periods. At least tried to get forward and used the ball intelligently on the few occasions he did have possession.
Hutchinson 4 - I'm not going to sugar coat, he was poor yesterday. He at least tried hard, however it was all very one dimensional. Pick up the ball and run straight at the defender, it became very predictable and he gave the ball away regularly. It's a steep learning curve and I'm convinced he will improve, I've seen enough good things to suggest he could be a regular starter in a year or two. He's only really been thrown in because Kightly and Macca have been so poor.

Cox 7 - Pick of the starting 11. Worked incredibly hard and won plenty of the ball despite being isolated before Kelman came on. I'd consider giving him the captain's armband. At the very least he leads by example.

Subs
Kightly 5 - Awful first half but did improve after the break and looked threatening going forward. Tracking back was poor though and he left Hendrie very isolated.
Kelman MOM 9 - Wow! Is that the best goal ever scored by a Southend player? It's got to at least be in the top 10. What a debut, deserves a chance from the start in the next game.

 

[bazzashrimper]

He didn't look nervous, completely at home on the pitch. Enough arrogance and confidence to try that 60 yard shot.

Was getting some off the ball prods and niggles from their huge centre back and he gave some back. Wasn't intimidated.

There was just something about him, something different that I haven't seen in one of our kids for a long time.

It was the confidence to try that shot that stood out for me. The reason he is confident is that he’s done it a few times before, including once for the yoofs this season.

Normally our youngsters arrive in the squad at ‘the right age’. The fact he’s arrived early, like dru, means he’s got that little extra

 

[bazzashrimper]

As per my post in the other thread, only going with positives!

Granted, for 75 minutes, we allowed bottom of the league Plymouth to look like Barcelona. Their players and fans would be forgiven for thinking that Christmas arrives in mid-January ?.

We went 3-0 down, out of the game totally, and suddenly around the 75th minute we picked up the mantle, grabbed 2 totally unexpected goals, and were odds on to grab an equaliser. Far too late of course, still at 3-0, it could easily have ended up 4 or 5. In terms of positives, it's right there, witnessed by the faithful who stayed till the end!

The second half was much better than the first. The last 15 minutes was something to behold, and young Charlie Kelman's goal is one of those once-in-a-lifetime moments! Something he, nor the remaining fans will forget in a hurry!

We are still 12th, in a close league. Anyone as far up as 7th or 8th could potentially get dragged into a relegation dog fight. We are actually doing okay. It isn't pretty, and we are possibly the most frustrating side because we are so inconsistent- but we are still in it! We aren't bottom, we have shown that we have ability, and we are not done yet!

Ratings

Bishop 7 - let down by a third rate defensive performance, nothing he could do for any of the goals. Some very brave goalkeeping, looked comfortable and commanding.

Elvis 5 - still learning his trade, and made a few mistakes. Not unexpected, as playing against wily old professionals who eat rookies for breakfast. As long as he keeps on doing his best, and is learning and improving, who are we to argue? It is a very big step up from u23s into an injury hit struggling league one side, and young a Elvis is doing well overall.

White 7 - puts body and soul on the line at every ask. Never going to set the world on fire, but as the most undervalued player in the squad, John is mr reliable, and will always try his best. Spent the game trying to protect Elvis, as well as cover for the even slower Turner - pick of the back 4 yesterday.

Turner 4 - no match for Lapodo, who knew exactly how to exploit Turners lack of speed, so he must have been delighted that Taylor Moore was injured! Turner is definitely showing his age, and unfortunately experience was no help at all yesterday.

Hendrie 6 - got loads of unjustified stick from the East again! Made a mistake for one of the goals, and again was caught out of position a few times trying desperately to cover for Turners inadequacies! Defensively, I think Hendrie is better than Coker, but doesn't offer the attacking flair that we have become accustomed to. People forget that Hendrie is also young still, and to an extent also still learning his trade.

Bunn 5 - didn't really get going, through no real fault of his own. Offered the only outlet of creativity in the first half. Hope the injury isn't too bad.

Mantom 6 - not one of his better performances.

Dru 6 - well done on reaching 50 appearances at his tender age, but can't help thinking he needs a proper rest. Looked more like a jaded 30 year old at the end of a long season, instead of the youthful 18 year old he is. Still, some nice touches, and held his own mostly.

Hutchinson 5 - like Elvis, inexperienced and learning still. Was a bit too lightweight for some of the over-promoted league 2 lumps in the Plymouth team, so muscled off the ball a lot, with no protection from the officials. Still, in the side for his ability and potential, so no argument from me with him being selected and played on merit from the available choices.

Dieng 6 - trying to run the midfield on his own, no mean feat when the rest of the midfield is overwhelmed. Faded a bit at times, but he can't try to protect the defence, look after the youngsters, combine with Mantom and get creative balls up to Coxy all on his own!

Cox 7- totally isolated again, yet ran for everything and got stuck in. When it really mattered, cool as a cucumber to slot an inch perfect penalty home. Well done Coxy!

Subs

Kightly 4 in first half 7 second half. Looked 3 stone overweight and totally unfit until halftime, then a transformation in the second. Looked by far our most dangerous player in the second (until Kelman arrived!)

Kelman 9 - for the short period of time he was in the pitch, young Charlie was a revelation! Sometimes, nothing beats the natural enthusiasm of a raw young talent on his debut. Obviously very talented, confident and willing, he was hussling and creating problems for Plymouth and that goal was just superb. He spotted their keeper daydreaming off his line, and just took a punt. And why not...? We had nothing to lose, and he made his own day and lots of other people's day memorable! This young man has a very bright future!

Overall, not the best of performances, disappointing in the main, but I am still encouraged by the glimmers of hope shining brightly from our own youth system. Now we are deep in the do do, with our off the field issues and our ever increasing sick list, we have everything to gain from taking a chance on some of our young protégées.

A good report, but unfair on turner and too generous to white. Hendrie was lined up next to white, so covering for others lack of positioning would have been him covering for white and not turner. Most chances came through our left central area. That is where John was playing. That said, he did make some good tackles and blocks.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

first 5 minutes I got a sore neck watching the hoof ball. Then we got the ball down and started to play. we were by far the better team, probed and looked good. Then Hendrie tried to head the ball back to Bishop, doesn't put enough on it and they score. The confidence visibly drained. It's not surprising really, we are down to the bones.

People criticising Powell need to be realistic. For all those criticising him for playing one up front - we only have ONE striker available. One. So how do you play two up top? I said pre match I'd have played Hutchinson up there with Cox and two wingers and 2 central midfielders. It's all well and good criticising, but what would you do instead?

Anyway, rant over. First half we were awful. Powell clearly reminded them that it was my birthday weekend and I was there with a big party because we improved second half - we couldn't get much worse.

Shocking errors led to goals. My mate says at least we're putting them under pressure and improving - they scored within 5 seconds of him saying that.

Loads of people left at 3-0. I can't massively blame them but I never leave early. Almost had a come back.

Observations rather than ratings:
Bishop - promising youngster, mistake led to a goal. Couldn't tell about his positioning but clearly not first choice.

Elvis - promising youngster. Clearly not first choice, still learning.

White and Turner - we can't expect them to be Bonucci . Confidence is low, they need better options from midfield.

Hutchinson - tried hard but clearly not ready to be a regular. Let's be patient and let him develop.

Cox worked hard but forced to try to flick the ball on to himself.

Kelman - amazing goal, probably as good as any I've ever seen live. But let's not overhype him just yet. He was a 17 year old on his debut. And he's not built like Wayne Rooney at that age i.e. like a tank. He scored a great goal but again, he's a youngster that needs to develop.

Great to see so many young players but we need to remember they are playing because we have a whole team out injured including our first choice back 5/6 and our top scorer. Be realistic people

 

[fbm]

My thoughts on why we just hoof it from the back - there's nobody in the midfield with a "Give me the ball because I can pass it and you can't!" Timlin did exactly that.

The last player we had who could do that was Mark Gower.

 

[Brian Meyers]

Awful defending throughout, good to see Taylor Moore's tweet and hopefully he'll be back soon, has anyone heard how long until Lennon and Demi are fit? We desperately need a shake up in personel but options are limited right now

Couple the above with pointless continual hoofs to Cox and we had the recipe for a dreadful embarassingly poor performance against the team second from bottom in the league.

Turner in particular ****ed me off with his continual hoofing, if you're under pressure I can understand but he kept doing it regardless. Once in the second half he had an age on the ball,a simple pass forward to Dieng on, yet what does he do? You've guessed it, 'HOOF'

Bishop 6 - It was always going to be tough to match his Gils performance. I felt he did okay, kicking was good again and made one very good save in the first half. That throw for the third goal was bizarre, am I right in thinking that Elvis called for it? If so he should take most of the blame.

Bwomono 5 - I actually thought in general he was better than against Gills. The error mentioned above was a low point though.
White 6 - Pick of the defense, made one excellent block to deny Ladapo early on.
Turner 3 - Dreadful. The aforementioned constant hoofs annoyed, and he looked generally tentative and shaky thoughout. Inspires no confidence in the younger players around him.
Hendrie 5 - Pretty much the same as Elvis, did okay for much of the game and at least tried to help out going forward. The back headed error which led to the opener was bad though.

Bunn 6 - Looked bright early on, yet another injury. Is he made of glass!
Dieng 4 - Pinged a couple of nice cross field passes, and that was about it. Doesn't look a natural ball winner to me, on the few occasions he did try a tackle he gave away a free kick. I assume Hyam was signed as the ball winner in midfield, a shame he's been so poor recently too.
Mantom 4 - Have we ever had a less inspiring captain? Confidence looks shot, his game was summed up by that awful direct free kick attempt late on.
Yearwood 5 - The game passed him by for large periods. At least tried to get forward and used the ball intelligently on the few occasions he did have possession.
Hutchinson 4 - I'm not going to sugar coat, he was poor yesterday. He at least tried hard, however it was all very one dimensional. Pick up the ball and run straight at the defender, it became very predictable and he gave the ball away regularly. It's a steep learning curve and I'm convinced he will improve, I've seen enough good things to suggest he could be a regular starter in a year or two. He's only really been thrown in because Kightly and Macca have been so poor.

Cox 7 - Pick of the starting 11. Worked incredibly hard and won plenty of the ball despite being isolated before Kelman came on. I'd consider giving him the captain's armband. At the very least he leads by example.

Subs
Kightly 5 - Awful first half but did improve after the break and looked threatening going forward. Tracking back was poor though and he left Hendrie very isolated.
Kelman MOM 9 - Wow! Is that the best goal ever scored by a Southend player? It's got to at least be in the top 10. What a debut, deserves a chance from the start in the next game.

Agree with everything you have said and Cox definitely for captain

 

[billy best was god]

Can we stop talking about "That goal"

Been going to the blues for 52 years and never left a game early why would you. Except yesterday i had a plumber coming at 5.30 pm so left when the extra 4 minute board went up to miss the traffic and missed the goal, have watch it many times on TV but not the same, then the bloody plumber turned up at 9.00pm

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Can we stop talking about "That goal"

Been going to the blues for 52 years and never left a game early why would you. Except yesterday i had a plumber coming at 5.30 pm so left when the extra 4 minute board went up to miss the traffic and missed the goal, have watch it many times on TV but not the same, then the bloody plumber turned up at 9.00pm

Can I just ask what wally booked the plumber for 5:30pm on Saturday, when Southend are playing at home?!

 

[billy best was god]

Can I just ask what wally booked the plumber for 5:30pm on Saturday, when Southend are playing at home?!

My wife

 

[HypoTypo]

My wife

And we moan about the football

 

[Bratislava Blue]

I don't understand this, we didn't have 4 strikers available and we had Cox, Kelman and Wabo. We also didn't have 3 centre backs to choose from so how could we go 3 at the back? The experienced wingers you mention have been 2 of our worst performers this season so I see complete sense in the formation and players that that Powell chose

Let me explain my post a little bit clearer. The 4th striker available was Ba... Remember him?. Additionally I never said we had 3 centre backs available. I purely said that we should have started 3-5-2. Hendrie has played in that role before and if memory serves me right we played better than we did yesterday. As for the experienced wingers not having the best of seasons so far. Does that mean CP should select them when he has no alternatives. Based on that approach Theo should be nowhere near the first team.

As for your statement about the formation. One up front against a team second from bottom. Do you really think that is the way to approach opponents like this whose away form is worse than our home form. We gave their team a massive boost by naming that line up and formation. That belated Christmas present from Powell to the Plymouth team and management gave them tenough pre-natch confidence to comfortably beat us. Do you and all your mates who liked your post not see this?

 

[rayleigh dan]

We should

Let me explain my post a little bit clearer. The 4th striker available was Ba... Remember him?. Additionally I never said we had 3 centre backs available. I purely said that we should have started 3-5-2. Hendrie has played in that role before and if memory serves me right we played better than we did yesterday. As for the experienced wingers not having the best of seasons so far. Does that mean CP should select them when he has no alternatives. Based on that approach Theo should be nowhere near the first team.

As for your statement about the formation. One up front against a team second from bottom. Do you really think that is the way to approach opponents like this whose away form is worse than our home form. We gave their team a massive boost by naming that line up and formation. That belated Christmas present from Powell to the Plymouth team and management gave them tenough pre-natch confidence to comfortably beat us. Do you and all your mates who liked your post not see this?

We should always play two up front up home IMO, Powell's been far too negative and we've paid the price with 10 defeats at Roots Hall this season. Why not start Kelman? He obviously doesn't rate Wabo or Ba, but then maybe try throwing Dieng on up front. Let's at least give poor old Cox some support.

Our home form is relegation form, no doubt about it. Our away form has been better, and the reason we're clear of trouble at present. However if that declines too we could be in for squeaky bum time come April.

 

[RobM]

Our home league record so far;

14 Southend Utd 14 6 1 7 23-17 +6 19 Pts.

 

[Rayleigh boy]

we would have won except for the fact we gave goal 1 and goal 2 from screw ups

 

[Chrisb]

we would have won except for the fact we gave goal 1 and goal 2 from screw ups

Not sure we would have won, who knows, but I doubt we would have seen that wonder goal - Kelman would probably not have got on the pitch at all if we hadn't been losing so badly.

 

[southchurch]

Hoof. Hoof. Hoof. No play through midfield. Cox on his own up front. 3-0 would have been a fare result. Plymouth although bad themselves were head and shoulders better than us. They did play it to feet through the midfield we didn't. We are bang in trouble and think at this stage that we will be relegated. Even when we go it out wide players were crossing the ball without even looking up. Technique all round was horrendous. I fully expect to be hammered by Bradford.

 

[Greebosan]

I'm getting fed up with this nonsense about injuries being the reason for shocking performances. Every season is the same, we will always have injuries to key players, a few years ago the injury list was so bad that the entire training regime was reviewed to see if there was an underlying cause to them all in terms of the facilities, training undertaken etc.


Of course I’m not disputing that we have a long injury list, but presumably the players actually on the pitch on Saturday weren’t injured? Presumably Powell isn’t suffering an injury that forced him to leave the touchline when we went 3-0 down? Presumably it’s not a surprise to Powell that he has players missing through injury – I don’t imagine that he plans tactics all week and then submits a team sheet containing Keirnan, Coker, Hopper, Barret etc, only to be amazed when he is told at the last minute that none of those players is available, meaning he just has to chuck players on at random. Managing a football team the size of ours in adversity is literally the job of any coach at this level, we don’t have unlimited funds and a squad of 60 internationals to call upon, but don’t tell me that we can’t put on a better show than this with the players that we do have available. There was no motivation, no bite, no sense of unity and no confidence and that’s nothing to do with the players who aren’t playing and everything to do with those players who are.


Powell needs to do significantly better with what he has at his disposal, the players that are available are hardly bad players, and I can’t believe that this is the best that can be got out of them.


The only other thing I will say is that the players looked so dispirited and disinterested from the start that I do wonder if the rumours flying round the stand were true – and pay is not currently as forthcoming as it should be.

 

[Fitz]

Hutchinson getting stick on here.

That's the spirit! .. Unbelievable!

Football is a harsh business. You either have the quality or you don’t. I’m all for bringing through players but they are not all going to cut the grade

 

[Grapevine]

Football is a harsh business. You either have the quality or you don’t. I’m all for bringing through players but they are not all going to cut the grade

Would it surprise you that by half time (I haven’t finished the second half yet) Hutchinson had the 3rd highest pass complete tally in the side? Only Mantom 18 and Dieng 16 had more passes complete to Isaacs 14? Dru had 10, while Cox, Turner, White and Bunn had just 4 passes complete each!!

In fact cox had 4 complete and 5 incomplete!!!

The highest % complete (not including clearances) was by Hendrie! With only Dieng, Mantom, Hendrie, Hutchinson and Elvis being 70% complete or above!!

He also had 4 headers won from 6 (Cox was 5 won from 11). He had 1 of only two efforts on goal (although I agree he made a hash of it) and had 5 successful dribbles (4 touches or more) which was the highest in the team......

I’ll complete the exercise later along with some comments on the game but whether he played well or not, they aren’t the stats of someone out of his depth at 18 years old and destined for non league.....

Remember also, he was playing as far out of position on his second league start of his career as 32 year old ex premier league player Cox was.....

Perception is a powerful thing....I prefer to watch and analyse.