Question Sturrock v Brown

[Up the Shrimpers]

Well after the latest debacle (and only 142 votes) I thought I'd kick this thread.

Another 21 have voted since you bumped this thread and most if not all have gone for 'About the same' & 'Gone Backwards'. I wonder if any of the 21 who originally voted 'Made Progress' have changed their minds now?

 

[tommy tucker]

Both has failed to light the blue touch paper .Both has taken us to within touching distance of leauge one .Both have not got us over the winning line .Not yet anyway .But sad to say I cant see this squad of players getting us there .Oh well Steve Tilson any ione .

 

[shrimperjon]

I voted gone backwards at the start and stick by that. I never wanted Brown, I have never rated him, one decent season or two at hull and that's it, his record elsewhere is crap. Luggy got us to Wembley and for that he will always be in all the heArts of true Southend fans. Browns decision to play Moshni and Straker at Wembley leaving Lenny and Lund in the stand was the start of my dislike for brown. Yesterday's substitutions were by far the worst and bewildering I've witnessed for many many years. He needs to go and go now before our seasons derails completely

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I voted gone backwards at the start and stick by that. I never wanted Brown, I have never rated him, one decent season or two at hull and that's it, his record elsewhere is crap. Luggy got us to Wembley and for that he will always be in all the heArts of true Southend fans. Browns decision to play Moshni and Straker at Wembley leaving Lenny and Lund in the stand was the start of my dislike for brown. Yesterday's substitutions were by far the worst and bewildering I've witnessed for many many years. He needs to go and go now before our seasons derails completely

This post sums it all up in 6 lines and one I fully agree with

 

[onceknownasrab]

Sturrock had a greater knowledge of lower league football but his tactics had not moved on with the times. A good man I am sure but limited. He had his favourites, substituted late and poorly and rarely gave fringe players a chance to shine even when the first choices were out of form.

Brown has his own idea how football should be played and early doors it looked far more appetising than the Sturrock Fayre. Brown does not, for me, see that many of our players are in lg 2 for a reason and if they could do what he expects they would be a league or two higher.

Like Sturrock, Brown has his favourites and as for substitutions, Brown is in a league of his own in terms of bemusement.

Whoever manages Southend, they need to be 'up' on lower league football, with modern knowledge of the game and a depth of tactical knowledge allowing for a plan 'B'. At our level that probably points to someone in our own division or even a league or so lower. I would rather have a manager that has connections to non-league at our level than one that can bring in other peoples players from above that use us as a stepping stone or for fitness.

 

[Jam_Man]

Squad harmony was better under Sturrock and the players wanted to play for him. That counts for a lot and I can see that more now in hindsight what with him being followed by a vain, shallow, arrogant, clueless, up his own arse, media whore manager who thinks he's above his players and the club's fans.

Sturrock's football wasn't pretty but we always looked dangerous in the final third and the 2011/12 season up until January/February was awesome

Really? Think there is a lot of nostalgia kicking in there.

I remember during our best season with him we were winning games 1-0 and barely having a shot on target and people complaining on here. That was whilst we were winning!

We scored a lot of goals that season but it wasn't exciting. Funny thing is we played 1 up front, which apparently Brown shouldn't be doing....

As for harmony there was also plenty of talk during that season of how players were fed up of playing "not hoof ball, direct football" and wanted to play differently.

 

[Danshrimper]

Really? Think there is a lot of nostalgia kicking in there.

I remember during our best season with him we were winning games 1-0 and barely having a shot on target and people complaining on here. That was whilst we were winning!

We scored a lot of goals that season but it wasn't exciting. Funny thing is we played 1 up front, which apparently Brown shouldn't be doing....

As for harmony there was also plenty of talk during that season of how players were fed up of playing "not hoof ball, direct football" and wanted to play differently.

Surely scoring a lot that season shows that we were dangerous in the final third regardless of how exciting it was?

My main memories of that season are winning games by scoring 3 goals, 4 goals and we even put 5 past Northampton. I'd be interested to see how many times we scored 3+ goals that season but i reckon it's at least 10, probably more. Something we'd never achieve under Brown.

 

[OldBlueLady]

We had a few maverick bad boys though and they made a massive difference. A Mohsni or Ryan Hall type would have given us a lot more help on the goals front under Brown.

 

[cerbera45]

I think Leonard was a better player under Sturrock for example. However Brown seems to think he is best suited sitting in front of the back four. I lost count the number of times yesterday when we had a corner Leonard was one of the two men staying back. This guy can shoot (and score) from 25 yards plus for God's sake. We're not playing to his particular strengths and this is only one case off the top of my head.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I think Leonard was a better player under Sturrock for example. However Brown seems to think he is best suited sitting in front of the back four. I lost count the number of times yesterday when we had a corner Leonard was one of the two men staying back. This guy can shoot (and score) from 25 yards plus for God's sake. We're not playing to his particular strengths and this is only one case off the top of my head.

I agree with this, why, when our central defenders are not exactly prolific are we sacrificing decent goal scorers to sit back when we have corners?

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

Without a doubt gone backwards. Under Sturrock we looked threatening, it wasn't always pretty, especially from set pieces we looked particularly dangerous.

 

[Azzurri Per Sempre]

Under Sturrock when we went 1-0 down I felt confident we would at least get a draw, we often came back to win games like that. Under Brown, I don't feel confident at all even when leading 1-0. Sturrock's football was ugly and largely boring, but it was effective and we certainly scored goals. I'd prefer a mix of the two, pleasing football which is effective, but then that's what everyone would want in an ideal world.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

We are poor at the moment - but Sturrock set his team out to bore the pants off everyone each week. If you do that you HAVE to succeed - Sturrock failed.

 

[shrimperjon]

So sturrocks team bored the pants off people, sorry, can someone explain how this current brown team is exciting the pants off, I just don't see it. Enjoyed Sturrock far more than any of the football under clown brown.

 

[onlyonekingkevin]

The only formation Brown can play atm is 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 . we need a player who can run the ball behind full backs and get crosses and shots in , every good Southend team has had one of those in the last few years , recently it was Ryan Hall and then it was Hurst !

this year we have no one who does that :sad:

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Don't see how anyone can vote "Made progress".

We were a side very unlucky and very close to gaining automatic promotion, and have some fairly decent cup runs.

We are now a side who is aiming to sneak into the playoffs and no cup runs.

How is that possibly anything other than backwards?

 

[Kevin Hogg]

If PB does not achieve promotion this season (we are in the mix) - then he is judged on that.
The football recently has been poor but earlier in the season and at times last season we have played some attractive stuff - but with no goal threat. Yes, that is PB's responsibility and one reason why the jury is still out.
BUT Sturrock set out to play boring, tedious football each game. It was duller than dull. He needed to achieve promotion...he failed narrowly. Not good enough.

Under Sturrock I was considering never watching the team again. They were that tedious and not successful.

PB has much to improve and to prove. But we can still win promotion. So it is for me a slight improvement.
I am pretty certain that most of the goodwill to Paul Stuirrock is because he is a genuinely lovely guy. We all want to think good of him. But his football philosophy?? Chronic.

 

[Ricky Otto]

I think Leonard was a better player under Sturrock for example. However Brown seems to think he is best suited sitting in front of the back four. I lost count the number of times yesterday when we had a corner Leonard was one of the two men staying back. This guy can shoot (and score) from 25 yards plus for God's sake. We're not playing to his particular strengths and this is only one case off the top of my head.

I don't remember him being in the running for player of the season under Sturrock, let alone winning it!

 

[united we stand]

To me this is a close run thing
I freely admit that I will find it difficult to ever gorgive Brown for the Wembley shambles , and I hope that is not clouding my judgement.
Memory is a weird thing , and I do recall being bored to death at times under Sturrock- and we were winning ! However I also recall numerous threads from the fans who go to away matches stating how exciting we were to watch play away from home. I don’t recall ever being embarresed watching under Sturrock, and I defiantely felt their existed more affinity between the players and fans under Sturrock (rose tinted glasses?)
I was going to say that Sturrocks signings (full time and laonees) were off a much higher quality than Browns, but then on reflection didn’t sturrock in the last season bring in loads who did not feature?
Some people say that Tilson got ‘lucky’ to have Eastwood. Well Brown is ‘lucky’ to have Bentley (who remember got his break because Smith was injured- so Brown can not take the credit !). If Dan had been a year or two down the line in his development and was our keeper instead of Smith would we have got that extra point to have ben promoted ? Without Bentley and with an average league 2 keeper would we have got to the play offs last year under Brown ?
Ultimately under Sturrock if we went one nil down as another poster has said you still genuinly felt that we could win the match. We had goals throughout the team – and on the subs bench. We don’t have that now. Have our palyers developed as much under Brown as they did under Sturrock-I’m not sure. Maybe writing this after watching on Saturday is unfair on Brown- it would be good to retrieve this thread at the end of the season . I do think that if Brown was an unknown from lower leagues that he would have received a great deal more flak and skeptisism that he has this year.
One thing Brown has achieved which evaded Sturrock is uniting the fan base. On Saturday we all seemed to think the same way with the Worrall substituation. With hindsight it’s a shame that at Wembley when we saw the team sheet we didn’t start expressing our opinion as we did on Saturday.
If the season continues as it is now then for me its ‘going backwards’ . Hopefully Brown can turn it around but I really can’t see it. Either the palyers don’t understand , or can’t implement what he is telling them, or thir confidence is shattered, or he is telling them the wrong thing . I have no idea what it is , but I truly hope he can change it –fast.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

I've voted for about the same, as we're ultimately in the same division as when PS was in charge. However, this year we do seem to have gone backwards in terms of the football we are witnessing.

People who know me know I was a massive fan of PS. Football weren't great at times but watching his teams play away from home was a joy to watch IMO. We always looked like we would win most games away from home. Home games were sometimes a bit stale, which was what ultimately cost him his job.

Last season, especially on that run, PB put together a squad which did play some great football, Chesterfield at home springs to mind. I really enjoyed last season up until the Hull game in all honesty. After that, we seemed to lose the quick tempo passing and high pressuring that we had before then.

This season, well, where do I start. The passing is slow, the tempo is slow, the creativity is minimal, the tactics are poor, the game plan is poor, there's no plan b, the list literally goes on. I would put this down to his stubbornness personally, but whatever it is, it needs to be addressed fast.

We ultimately need to go back to basics. 442 or 433/451 for me and build from there. In all fairness, we're seventh, which although everyone would want automatics, we'd all take it at the end of the day. Hopefully a big win next Saturday will give the squad some much needed confidence and we can build from there.