The EU Referendum

[Pubey]

Best you start calling the BBC and all these top EU politicians racist and xenophobic. It now appears us ignorant Essex boys actually new a bit more about the world than someone living in a bubble of left wing ideology and Spainish sunshine. Guess what none of us have any useless unrelated qualifications we can post about on here either.

Why not play the post and not the poster? So many threads are getting killed off with personal bickering.

 

[rigsby]

Why not play the post and not the poster? So many threads are getting killed off with personal bickering.

How about your view then. Have you changed in any way in the last six months?

 

[rigsby]

Why not play the post and not the poster? So many threads are getting killed off with personal bickering.

By the way perhaps you should take your own advice on threads such as 9/11:thumbsup:

 

[callan]

Bad news for the EU from Davos.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35375303

Schengen I fear is truly at risk, and if that was to fall apart and there would possibly be a case for countries to dump the Euro.

If the EU project doesn't sort this out soon a referendum will not be necessary, as the EU will simply implode.

Merkel and the EU commissioners are doing a far better job building a case for Brexit then the dedicated out campaigns here in the UK.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Bad news for the EU from Davos.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35375303

Astonishing that it's come from such a well respected and important position. Even more astonishing is that he's had the balls to go on record and quite clearly state what a lot of us right wing 'kippers' on here were predicting might happen weeks ago.

I really can't see Europe being able to sort this mess out, not in a month of Sunday's. There are far to many vested interests at stake and at the heart of the majority of decisions that need to be made by those that can make a difference. The UK included.

I'll go on record now and state that it's my opinion that this crisis will be the catalyst that eventually sounds the death nell of the European Superstate and it's ideals of financial and social harmony.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

France has had problems building for decades with it's arab and black minorities; in many towns they have not joined the french society norms and there have been many riots that go largely unreported in main stream press.
The figures (% head of population) for "French" persons joining ISIS are about double that most European nations.
I suspect the French PM is using the platform as a way of main streaming and "outing" the growing issues without falling (completely) into the right wing NF propoganda.

 

[Bielzibubz]

France has had problems building for decades with it's arab and black minorities; in many towns they have not joined the french society norms and there have been many riots that go largely unreported in main stream press.
The figures (% head of population) for "French" persons joining ISIS are about double that most European nations.
I suspect the French PM is using the platform as a way of main streaming and "outing" the growing issues without falling (completely) into the right wing NF propoganda.

:stunned::stunned::stunned: You can't go around saying that integration and multiculturalism hasn't worked in many parts of France like that. That's like saying there are no go areas for white French people and you'll then get labelled a closet racist :facepalm:

That kind of talk flies in the face of the great European ideal that free movement of peoples and cultures work and benefit everyone. It's just not on Sir, wash your mouth out :winking:

Anyway, the sooner we cut the ties that hamstring this country, both judicially, culturally and financially, the better.

 

[rigsby]

BBC news tonight apart from the 40 odd migrants that have drowned whilst coming from the safety of Turkey, mentioned that they expect the figures to increase four fold this summer. Even Merkel is now panicking as she realises she may have helped derail the whole EU gravy train.

Now there is a real chance that we may vote out, they are already looking to ease their unyielding stance. Of course if they make us a special case then other countries will follow. You never know we might end up with what the whole project started for in the first place.....Just a trade agreement between European Countries, which of course would secure the mythical 5 million jobs we will supposedly lose.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Best you start calling the BBC and all these top EU politicians racist and xenophobic. It now appears us ignorant Essex boys actually new a bit more about the world than someone living in a bubble of left wing ideology and Spainish sunshine. Guess what none of us have any useless unrelated qualifications we can post about on here either.

It's not really a question of what you know,it's a question of what you believe.

I happen to believe that the refugee crisis is the worst humanitarian crisis to have hit Europe since the end of WW2.

I also believe that certain countries' reaction to it (including that of the UK) has been shameful,so far.

Schengen I fear is truly at risk, and if that was to fall apart and there would possibly be a case for countries to dump the Euro.

If the EU project doesn't sort this out soon a referendum will not be necessary, as the EU will simply implode.

Merkel and the EU commissioners are doing a far better job building a case for Brexit then the dedicated out campaigns here in the UK.

I certainly agree with you that Schegen is at risk, if the reguee crisis isn't sorted in the near future.

Unlike you, (I suspect),I'd be extremely sorry to see it go.It encapsulates the European ideal,IMO.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Astonishing that it's come from such a well respected and important position. Even more astonishing is that he's had the balls to go on record and quite clearly state what a lot of us right wing 'kippers' on here were predicting might happen weeks ago.

I really can't see Europe being able to sort this mess out, not in a month of Sunday's. There are far to many vested interests at stake and at the heart of the majority of decisions that need to be made by those that can make a difference. The UK included.

I'll go on record now and state that it's my opinion that this crisis will be the catalyst that eventually sounds the death nell of the European Superstate and it's ideals of financial and social harmony.

Valls is indeed "a well respected and important" politician.

Apart from being France's P.M.-he's odds on to be the Socialist's Presidential candidate in next year's French elections.

Sorry, I can't agree with anything else in your post though.:smiles:

 

[rigsby]

It's not really a question of what you know,it's a question of what you believe.

I happen to believe that the refugee crisis is the worst humanitarian crisis to have hit Europe since the end of WW2.

I also believe that certain countries' reaction to it (including that of the UK) has been shameful,so far.



I certainly agree with you that Schegen is at risk, if the reguee crisis isn't sorted in the near future.

Unlike you, (I suspect),I'd be extremely sorry to see it go.It encapsulates the European ideal,IMO.

Your refusal to admit that there are thousands of illegal economic migrants using the Syrian crisis to enter Europe, Is the real reason the refugees will now be let down.

If like some of us stated on here they took genuine cases from camps in Jordan etc, then we would never have had people drowning in winter seas as we have seen today. Instead we had you screaming racist and xenophobe at our obvious and fair solutions to the problem.

Its people like you and your blind political thinking that has killed those people this week so its you that should feel shameful.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Valls is indeed "a well respected and important" politician.

Apart from being France's P.M.-he's odds on to be the Socialist's Presidential candidate in next year's French elections.

Sorry, I can't agree with anything else in your post though.:smiles:

So, if you can't agree with the rest of it please enlighten us as to what your proposals would be to putting the situation to rights bearing in mind that the current scenario clearly cannot continue as is as it's failed at the first hurdle.

Agree, it is a humanitarian crisis but the status quo clearly cannot continue and if it does what do you think the outcome will be?

Do you believe that each European country has the political will to do what's required and agree to terms they know will be detrimental to their nations social coherence (not working in France, won't work in Germany or Austria either) given each countries wildly different financial situation and cultural differences and if yes, why have they not done so already?

PS. I didn't mean respected by me :winking:

PPS. No need to apologize. I never for one minute expected you to.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Your refusal to admit that there are thousands of illegal economic migrants using the Syrian crisis to enter Europe, Is the real reason the refugees will now be let down.

If like some of us stated on here they took genuine cases from camps in Jordan etc, then we would never have had people drowning in winter seas as we have seen today. Instead we had you screaming racist and xenophobe at our obvious and fair solutions to the problem.

Its people like you and your blind political thinking that has killed those people this week so its you that should feel shameful.

I'd be interested to see if you can produce any evidence for this claim.

Even if were true that there are "thousands" of "migrants" alongside people genuinely fleeing from the war in Syria, they still deserve the compassion and respect that all refugees are entitled too.

Shame on you.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I'd be interested to see if you can produce any evidence for this claim.

Oh come on Comrade. We all know that any evidence to back up a claim made but us racists and 'Kippers' will immediately be tagged as political scaremongering or a down right lie.

Blinkered socialists of your ilk refuse and cannot see anything beyond their own political ideal. It's all consuming and eradicates and rational thought process that may have been there before it took hold.

But just to placate you try this from The WSJ... http://www.wsj.com/articles/migrants-pose-as-syrians-to-open-door-to-asylum-in-europe-1442013612

And this ... http://www.wsj.com/articles/migrants-pose-as-syrians-to-open-door-to-asylum-in-europe-1442013612 Sorry, it's the Mail so must be ********.

And this paragragh from your very own Guardian

'The most common nationality by far of those currently arriving in Greece and Italy is Syrian. Other common nationalities are Eritrean, Afghan, Somali, and Iraqi. In most cases they are fleeing civil war, violence and oppression. Those who do make it to the UK are highly likely to be granted refugee status or humanitarian protection. Legally and morally, they are not illegal immigrants, still less “bogus asylum seekers”. But that’s not the whole story by any means: a considerable number are from countries in west Africa, including Nigeria and Ghana. Here the motivations for most are likely to be primarily economic. (my bold)

I hope these help.

 

[callan]

Unlike you, (I suspect),I'd be extremely sorry to see it go.It encapsulates the European ideal,IMO.

I'm in in favour of Brexit, as a Uk citizen, and I have stated why on many different threads.

I believe that we are strong enough to forge our own way outside of the EU, economically, politically, socially and most importantly democratically.

Schengen may have worked, had it purely existed between the original members of the EEC where standards of living and the original currencies of those states not too far apart.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Oh come on Comrade. We all know that any evidence to back up a claim made but us racists and 'Kippers' will immediately be tagged as political scaremongering or a down right lie.

Blinkered socialists of your ilk refuse and cannot see anything beyond their own political ideal. It's all consuming and eradicates and rational thought process that may have been there before it took hold.

But just to placate you try this from The WSJ... http://www.wsj.com/articles/migrants-pose-as-syrians-to-open-door-to-asylum-in-europe-1442013612

And this ... http://www.wsj.com/articles/migrants-pose-as-syrians-to-open-door-to-asylum-in-europe-1442013612 Sorry, it's the Mail so must be ********.

And this paragragh from your very own Guardian

'The most common nationality by far of those currently arriving in Greece and Italy is Syrian. Other common nationalities are Eritrean, Afghan, Somali, and Iraqi. In most cases they are fleeing civil war, violence and oppression. Those who do make it to the UK are highly likely to be granted refugee status or humanitarian protection. Legally and morally, they are not illegal immigrants, still less “bogus asylum seekers”. But that’s not the whole story by any means: a considerable number are from countries in west Africa, including Nigeria and Ghana. Here the motivations for most are likely to be primarily economic. (my bold)

I hope these help.

So frustrating when people start moaning about how they predict their post will be greeted. Just say what you think, don't start moaning about the reply before it's even happened.

 

[callan]

I'd be interested to see if you can produce any evidence for this claim.

Even if were true that there are "thousands" of "migrants" alongside people genuinely fleeing from the war in Syria, they still deserve the compassion and respect that all refugees are entitled too.

Shame on you.

So frustrating when people start moaning about how they predict their post will be greeted. Just say what you think, don't start moaning about the reply before it's even happened.

If certain posters weren't so predictable then perhaps this wouldn't happen?

If you scrutinise Barna's post, he requests evidence but then places a caveat on that evidence should it be provided....and then goes further by declaring shame on the OP!

Earlier on the thread he describes ''kippers'' as lunatics....that's before we get to closet racist stuff etc which he has come out with before.

No one complains (personally I couldn't care less), the irony of course being that this sort of lazy stereotyping on any other group would be lambasted by the left wing....but it's ok when it come's to us ''little englanders''.

Ultimately I agree with what you say AAS, but it can't just apply one way.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I'd be interested to see if you can produce any evidence for this claim.

Even if were true that there are "thousands" of "migrants" alongside people genuinely fleeing from the war in Syria, they still deserve the compassion and respect that all refugees are entitled too.

Shame on you.

Economic migrants, because that's the term that was used in the post that your replying to, are not refugees. Just thought I'd point that out for you as you seem to be confusing the two.

Also, are you saying that despite their reason for leaving their homeland, regardless of where that should be, that their destination of choice should accept them out of compassion?

 

[rigsby]

Economic migrants, because that's the term that was used in the post that your replying to, are not refugees. Just thought I'd point that out for you as you seem to be confusing the two.

Also, are you saying that despite their reason for leaving their homeland, regardless of where that should be, that their destination of choice should accept them out of compassion?

Just like to add the term 'economic migrant' is the PC way of saying illegal Immigrant who has avoided boarder controls and entered a country illegally. To legally claim refugee status you have to do so in the first country you arrive at not in the one you eventually arrive in.

So every person, regardless of motive, or reason, who is in a boat from Turkey to Greece is an illegal. This form of people smuggling has been fully encouraged by Merkel and a minority of naïve Europeans and look at what's happened. By encouraging these mainly single young men and parasitic gangs to smuggle them we now have drowning's at sea and much less harmony within Western Europe.

As we have already seen terrorists have used the unchecked refugee route to slip in and out of the ME. With numbers set to increase this year we will end up with further attacks like Paris. Unless we have a complete rethink on how to deal with a problem that the West has made into a crisis we have some very sad times ahead in more ways than one.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just like to add the term 'economic migrant' is the PC way of saying illegal Immigrant who has avoided boarder controls and entered a country illegally. To legally claim refugee status you have to do so in the first country you arrive at not in the one you eventually arrive in.

So every person, regardless of motive, or reason, who is in a boat from Turkey to Greece is an illegal. This form of people smuggling has been fully encouraged by Merkel and a minority of naïve Europeans and look at what's happened. By encouraging these mainly single young men and parasitic gangs to smuggle them we now have drowning's at sea and much less harmony within Western Europe.

As we have already seen terrorists have used the unchecked refugee route to slip in and out of the ME. With numbers set to increase this year we will end up with further attacks like Paris. Unless we have a complete rethink on how to deal with a problem that the West has made into a crisis we have some very sad times ahead in more ways than one.

People fleeing a warzone will leave by whatever methods are accessible to them, often they will be taking the same route as people travelling for other reasons. 'So every person, regardless of motive, or reason, who is in a boat from Turkey to Greece is an illegal' is not true. Those travelling to leave a warzone are refugees and not illegal. For all refugees to claim that status in the first country they land is not practical as then only countries with southern coastal regions would have any responsibility for ME refugees.


'the term 'economic migrant' is the PC way of saying illegal Immigrant who has avoided boarder controls and entered a country illegally' - that again is not exclusively true as most economic migrants are legal. The numbers for illegal immigration is tiny compared to the numbers for legal immigration and most of the 'legals' are here to work and therefore economic migrants.