The NHS thread

[Member]

People aren't suggesting that.

Our current government is.

 

[GBJ]

Our current government is.

And what proposals has any other would-be government put forward?

 

[rigsby]

Our current government is.

I thought we were on shrimperzone.

The current government are the same as all the others, including Blair, going back nearly 40 years. They all wanted more for less from any front line public service......Apart from MP's of course.

 

[Perth Bambi]

Talking about Ambulances, in Australia you have to pay for an Ambulance and people take out Ambulance cover health insurance (very cheap) It certainly stops people using Ambulances when they don't need to. (the health insurance pays the full amount in emergencies and life threatening situations and a smaller percentage in non emergencies.

 

[Perth Bambi]

I have been out of the NHS for a fair while but it isn't possible to take a simplistic view of what is going on. There are countless reasons.
A lack of social care meaning patients stay on wards longer.
Families unwilling to provide any type of social care to older family members meaning patients stay on wards longer.
Ageing population
Obesity epidemic.
etc etc
I don't think increasing nurses wages would help at all (obv it would help the nurses) but we need to be increasing the number of nurses. Nurses are so busy and overworked that their salaries don't seem enough. Being overworked and underpaid relative to this leads to people leaving the profession, sickness etc etc and its a snow ball problem.
Generally things in Australia work very well (in my opinion)

People pay a small fee for certain GP appointments (not young or old etc) or pay a full fee and a high percentage of this is then rebated by medicare. There are a lot more GP clinic, a lot more GP's and almost every single time you can ring up on the morning and get in on the day. People then tend to go to a GP when they def need to.
Some of the hospitals are privately owned with both public and private parts of the hospital and I have to say it works perfectly. I have only ever used our local hospital as a patient (wife giving birth twice, appendix out once, child sickness) but I have to say it has been quick, easy and works very well. I do have clients (nurses mainly) who work at said hospital, in a mix of ward and Emergency departments who have worked when it was both a publicly run and privately run hospital and they have found that it runs just as well (if not better) when it was bought and run by Ramsey Health care.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I thought we were on shrimperzone.

The current government are the same as all the others, including Blair, going back nearly 40 years. They all wanted more for less from any front line public service......Apart from MP's of course.

Nope.The Blair/Brown governments actually put a lot of cash into the NHS, raising the level of spending in line with other middle ranking EU countries but not as high as in Germany or France.The Tory governments since 2010 have cut government spending in real terms (ie as a % of GPD) thus causing the NHS to fall way down in the WHO rankings.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Haven't you found a hobby yet ?



Glad to see your back. Surely you could remind us of your qualifications as new zoners won't know how smart you are.

Think you've confused me with Barna.

Oh I dunno.After all, it was you who told us you had a PhD.That makes you better qualified than me, as I stopped at Master's level back in the early 90's.:raspberry:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Talking about Ambulances, in Australia you have to pay for an Ambulance and people take out Ambulance cover health insurance (very cheap) It certainly stops people using Ambulances when they don't need to. (the health insurance pays the full amount in emergencies and life threatening situations and a smaller percentage in non emergencies.

(Sorry to go off topic) but I've heard from a couple of people in recent months (one of them a strine) that pensions in Oz are means tested.

Not sure that's a road I'd want the UK (or any EU country) to go down either.:nope:

 

[londonblue]

Nope.The Blair/Brown governments actually put a lot of cash into the NHS, raising the level of spending in line with other middle ranking EU countries but not as high as in Germany or France.The Tory governments since 2010 have cut government spending in real terms (ie as a % of GPD) thus causing the NHS to fall way down in the WHO rankings.

One of the first things the tories did was reduce NHS targets because they knew a lack of funding would eventually lead to the very high targets set by Blair being missed. The NHS has also missed the reduced targets.

 

[Member]

Oh I dunno.After all, it was you who told us you had a PhD.That makes you better qualified than me, as I stopped at Master's level back in the early 90's.:raspberry:

The only time I can think about mentioning that I have a PhD (apart from now) was in response to Napster's thread about setting up a new health research charity in tribute to ldnfatso. If people interpret that as bragging/bigheaded then fine, but it was only intended as an offer of specific/niche help for a good cause. We get told that people are 'sick of experts', but sometimes it is possible to be an expert in certain things and that be helpful/relevant.

If anyone wants to talk more about my qualifications then happy to do that via PM. let's not side-track this thread, there have been some interested posts/points made.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Haven't you found a hobby yet ?



Glad to see your back. Surely you could remind us of your qualifications as new zoners won't know how smart you are.

Do you get your jollies by deliberately winding people up, what is wrong with you? BTW, it's spelt you're.

 

[rigsby]

Do you get your jollies by deliberately winding people up, what is wrong with you? BTW, it's spelt you're.

Only those that try it first...Perhaps you should read the whole thread or even the Jon Venables thread.

I don't have any qualifications not even one 0 level due to the fact I am Dyslexic.....Which is probably noticeable from my posts. One of the reasons I joined the forum was to try and improve a life long problem that is still openly discriminated against.

I went to school in the 70's and was good at math so teachers accused me of being lazy with English and spelling etc. Being left handed and forced to use a fountain pen meant I smudged most of my badly spelt poorly written work. Lots of teachers back then would openly mock anyone like me, so up until the arrival of computers I have never even wrote a letter.

So if you could, try and cut me some slack because others on here have been mocked by the spelling police and don't come on anymore.......Which is a real shame.

 

[GBJ]

Do you get your jollies by deliberately winding people up, what is wrong with you? BTW, it's spelt you're.

Hold up, let's have it right, yesterday MK actually told Rigsby that he was on a quest to solely wind up right-wing people? What's good for one, is surely good for the other?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Hold up, let's have it right, yesterday MK actually told Rigsby that he was on a quest to solely wind up right-wing people? What's good for one, is surely good for the other?

On twitter. As a joke. :facepalm:

 

[GBJ]

On twitter. As a joke. :facepalm:

Which is your prerogative. FWIW, it doesn't offend or bother me, just thought I'd inject some balance into GYS' one-sided post towards Rigsby.

 

[GBJ]

The only time I can think about mentioning that I have a PhD (apart from now) was in response to Napster's thread about setting up a new health research charity in tribute to ldnfatso. If people interpret that as bragging/bigheaded then fine, but it was only intended as an offer of specific/niche help for a good cause. We get told that people are 'sick of experts', but sometimes it is possible to be an expert in certain things and that be helpful/relevant.

If anyone wants to talk more about my qualifications then happy to do that via PM. let's not side-track this thread, there have been some interested posts/points made.

Still waiting for you to reply to my questions (post 56, 59 & 62)

Dont do your usual thing & slip off at the first sign of difficult questions please

 

[Member]

Still waiting for you to reply to my questions (post 56, 59 & 62)

Dont do your usual thing & slip off at the first sign of difficult questions please

I'll try and take a look when I can. Think it's presumptuous to expect people to reply to every question/comment/post - if people want to not respond then that's fine. I'm really busy today, for example.

 

[Member]

In what example would it not be clinically right to refuse someone paracetemol, that cost 14p in a shop?

If im not mistaken, Paracetemol is usually prescribed by a hospital, in the cases of sprains, bumps & bruises. Or in other words, the trivial things, which can easily be self-medicated.

Paracetamol is prescribed/recommended for much more than just trivial things, and will be prescribed during hospital care (e.g. post operative/pain management), discharge (e.g. part of discharge prescription) and in primary care - e.g. a GP may prescribe paracetamol. For example, post-operative discharge will see patients get given a whole list of items such as compression stockings, pain relief, anticoagulation treatment, PPIs etc. It's easier and probably more appropriate to give the patient the whole lot rather than expect them to pop to the shops because they're out of paracetamol - especially because hospitals are under severe pressure to get patients out of hospital faster - often they're not really in a state to be out and about in Tescos, and may not have the support needed to care for them fully. If a patient doesn't take pain relief then it can lead to other things - slower recovery, readmission/GP visits etc which can have cost implications. A GP may prescribe paracetamol again for similar reasons... wanting to increase the chances of the patient actually taking pain relief, or bundling it into a medication plan to ensure it is taken.

The tl;dr version is that doctors are trained to give out prescriptions/provide medical care, if they have a reason to prescribe paracetamol then fine, they are not ignorant to the fact you can buy it for a few pence in the shops.

Because the NHS has suffered systemic abuse from top to bottom. Throwing more money at it may cure some symptoms, but it won't eradicate the disease from within

Not sure what the question is.

To talk in analogies, the way I was taught about NHS health policy is that it's a bit like building a wall. Over times you fix things, patch things up, add a bit more on top, knock a bit down. In the end all you end up with is a weird looking wall. It might be effective, but it could probably be improved. If you want to change and improve the NHS/the wall, you have to invest in materials, plan for it, and make the significant change. Often that means breaking down recently added parts, as well as older parts, and using the latest technology/knowledge/experience to ensure its going to last a long time. Feel a bit Trump dirty talking about walls.

My personal view is that the foundations of the NHS are sound - taxation-funded, comprehensive, free at point of use, prioritised by need, evidence-based etc. So we don't need to demolish the whole thing and start again, but we need to do more to plan for the future - significant infrastructure investments, IT investments, better training, recruitment, more innovation from within, more R&D. But all of those things cost money, and also they need experienced and skilled managers as well as front line staff. The idea that you could save loads of money and keep the NHS the same by sacking management is a joke.

And what proposals has any other would-be government put forward?

labour - https://labour.org.uk/issue/healthcare/
lib dem - https://www.libdems.org.uk/health
ukip (2015) - http://www.ukip.org/ukip_manifesto_summary
greens - https://www.greenparty.org.uk/green-guarantee/our-nhs-and-public-services.html
snp - https://www.snp.org/health

NHS manifesto comparisons:
Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-vote-for-the-uk-election-manifestos-compared
BMA - https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-voice/influence/nhs-breaking-point/political-party-manifestos
Nuffield trust - https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/research/nhs-funding-choices-and-the-2017-general-election

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The only time I can think about mentioning that I have a PhD (apart from now) was in response to Napster's thread about setting up a new health research charity in tribute to ldnfatso. If people interpret that as bragging/bigheaded then fine, but it was only intended as an offer of specific/niche help for a good cause. We get told that people are 'sick of experts', but sometimes it is possible to be an expert in certain things and that be helpful/relevant.

If anyone wants to talk more about my qualifications then happy to do that via PM. let's not side-track this thread, there have been some interested posts/points made.

I seem to remember it also coming up (some time ago now) in the What's making you happy today? thread too.

No need to apologise.Getting a PhD, in my book at least, is a major life achievement.I was made up when our older daughter got hers,a few years ago now.

 

[GBJ]

Paracetamol is prescribed/recommended for much more than just trivial things, and will be prescribed during hospital care (e.g. post operative/pain management), discharge (e.g. part of discharge prescription) and in primary care - e.g. a GP may prescribe paracetamol. For example, post-operative discharge will see patients get given a whole list of items such as compression stockings, pain relief, anticoagulation treatment, PPIs etc. It's easier and probably more appropriate to give the patient the whole lot rather than expect them to pop to the shops because they're out of paracetamol - especially because hospitals are under severe pressure to get patients out of hospital faster - often they're not really in a state to be out and about in Tescos, and may not have the support needed to care for them fully. If a patient doesn't take pain relief then it can lead to other things - slower recovery, readmission/GP visits etc which can have cost implications. A GP may prescribe paracetamol again for similar reasons... wanting to increase the chances of the patient actually taking pain relief, or bundling it into a medication plan to ensure it is taken.

Theres the key - becuase it's easier. What's stopping people stocking up on paracetemol, before they go to hospital for surgery? it costs the NHS millions, but it's more appropriate and easier than asking able-bodied patients to stop an a Shop and get some first.

Not sure what the question is.

To talk in analogies, the way I was taught about NHS health policy is that it's a bit like building a wall. Over times you fix things, patch things up, add a bit more on top, knock a bit down. In the end all you end up with is a weird looking wall. It might be effective, but it could probably be improved. If you want to change and improve the NHS/the wall, you have to invest in materials, plan for it, and make the significant change. Often that means breaking down recently added parts, as well as older parts, and using the latest technology/knowledge/experience to ensure its going to last a long time. Feel a bit Trump dirty talking about walls.

My personal view is that the foundations of the NHS are sound - taxation-funded, comprehensive, free at point of use, prioritised by need, evidence-based etc. So we don't need to demolish the whole thing and start again, but we need to do more to plan for the future - significant infrastructure investments, IT investments, better training, recruitment, more innovation from within, more R&D. But all of those things cost money, and also they need experienced and skilled managers as well as front line staff. The idea that you could save loads of money and keep the NHS the same by sacking management is a joke

It wasn't so much a question, more a stating the obvious. The NHS has been abused & pretty much misappropriated. Your analogy is nice, but doesn't Include these factors.

Your idea to simply throw money at the problem, and do some better planning is too idealistic. Where does this funding come from? And what's to stop it being wasted by the same management that's currently draining it today? A plethora of Business consultants on £150k a year is a joke.

Labour vow to appoint the Secretary of State as head of the NHS & make it their legal responsibilty. That's Emily Thornberry. Jesus ****ing Christ. Might aswell make Dianne Abbot the head of race relations & maths whilst they're at it