West Ham in Monday's Programme

[* ORM *]

Quote[/b] (SUFCFARAWAY @ Sep. 01 2005,12:25)]Must of taken his medication today!

I fear your response is going to result in lengthy explanations of grammatical errors.

 

[Fish]

Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Sep. 01 2005,12:27)]

Quote[/b] (SUFCFARAWAY @ Sep. 01 2005,12:25)]Must of taken his medication today!

I fear your response is going to result in lengthy explanations of grammatical errors.

Hoo, mi?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I took large quantities of certain medications last night, and am feeling a wee bit tender today...

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Sep. 01 2005,12:27)]

Quote[/b] (SUFCFARAWAY @ Sep. 01 2005,12:25)]Must of taken his medication today!

I fear your response is going to result in lengthy explanations of grammatical errors.

*MtS chomps at the bit*

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>Must of?&#33; Must of?&#33; AAAARGH&#33;</span>

 

[Prodigal Son]

Fair enough MtS, I will eventually get over my WHU problem.

Anyway, The Goat celebration photos from Monday where he is sitting in the South East corner has someone visible in an Arsenal shirt so maybe it is time I backed off. The said person is&#39;nt facing the pitch though&#33;

Up the Hammers&#33;

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Prodigal Son @ Sep. 01 2005,12:36)]Fair enough MtS, I will eventually get over my WHU problem.

Up the Hammers&#33;

Good lad, you&#39;ll see the light eventually...

(For the record, I hate the Hammers, but (a) we&#39;re not rivals with them; and (b) I&#39;m rather fond of their habit of paying money to come through our turnstiles)

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Sep. 01 2005,12:41)](For the record, I hate the Hammers, but (a) we&#39;re not rivals with them;

But we do compete for fans and income, in my book that makes us big rivals.

Personally, I&#39;m with Prodigal on this one. If we think and aim small we&#39;ll always be small. Aim high and you never know what you might acheive (this is not the same as spending beyond your means), after all ManUre we&#39;re once a small club.

We should not feel inferior in any way shape of form to the Spamsters, in fact quite the contrary. Belittling ourselves sends out the wrong message to new and casual fans. It also gives West Sham fans ammunition to put us down.

This is not a dig at your article, is always a cracking read and thought provoking, just a personal view. And yes, for the avoidance of doubt, I do hate West Ham with a passion.

I shall now return to my parrallel universe where the mighty Shrimpers are without question the best team on the planet.

Nurse, where&#39;s my medication?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,12:55)]This is not a dig at your article, is always a cracking read and thought provoking, just a personal view.

*blushes*

Aww, shucks...

And it&#39;s a very fair point about competing for fans &amp; income, &quot;aiming high&quot; and not belittling ourselves.

Note to self: do not put SUFC down; we are at least as big as West Ham, honest guv...

 

[Prodigal Son]

Great posting &#33; I think we will all continue to be split down the middle on this one but a common theme seems to be that the nearer you are down the c2c line towards West Ham the stronger we feel about it.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,12:55)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Sep. 01 2005,12:41)](For the record, I hate the Hammers, but (a) we're not rivals with them;

But we do compete for fans and income, in my book that makes us big rivals.

Personally, I'm with Prodigal on this one.  If we think and aim small we'll always be small.  Aim high and you never know what you might acheive (this is not the same as spending beyond your means), after all ManUre we're once a small club.  

We should not feel inferior in any way shape of form to the Spamsters, in fact quite the contrary.  Belittling ourselves sends out the wrong message to new and casual fans.  It also gives West Sham fans ammunition to put us down.

This is not a dig at your article, is always a cracking read and thought provoking, just a personal view.  And yes, for the avoidance of doubt, I do hate West Ham with a passion.

I shall now return to my parrallel universe where the mighty Shrimpers are without question the best team on the planet.  

Nurse, where's my medication?

Good points UB, Reading are a good example of a former small club who have managed to raise their profile in the last decade. I don't have stats to back me up but I don't recall them having a particularly large following in the nineties when they played at Elm Park.
Geographically speaking they have compete with the likes of Chelsea, QPR & Fulham juslt as we have WHU, Spurs etc

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Prodigal Son @ Aug. 31 2005,21:24)]I hope Mr. Scriven can answer this post. The bigger programme is good but I refer you to page 27 where Matt Walker says ''we are a minnow compared to West Ham'' ,'' West Ham have always been a giant compared to us'' and ''we should continue to welcome Hammers fans to home games with welcome arms''.......

I have no idea who Matt Walker is but is this the club's official stance? Do you have editorial control?

Apologies to those who had to witness an anti-WHU thread recently do we have o have this in the programme glorifying WHU?  

He also mentions ''bragging rights'' but I have never met a Col U fan despite spending all of Sunday in Col******r so just who exactly do we brag to? It's a bit like North and south Korea in that you never see them.

Maybe we can give the WHU fans their own section of Roots Hall?

With apologies to the Flying Scotsman, that is post of (yester)day.

I'm sure all those who (a) realise our existence is dependent on attracting football fans in SE Essex to Southend and not to the hamsters and (b) are fed up with being patronised by wet shammers will agree.

For the record, its not just the hamsters I dislike, its also the likes of Man Ure, Liverpool, Ar$enal etc paper fans living in SE Essex.

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Prodigal Son @ Sep. 01 2005,13:22)]a common theme seems to be that the nearer you are down the c2c line towards West Ham the stronger we feel about it.

You may well be right. Surrounded by the inbreds in Upminster. You can spot them a mile off - mono-syllabic, amoeba like creatures.

I either have to come home early or late when the Sham are at home mid-week. Can&#39;t bear to come out of Upminster station through hoards of the morons.

 

[Prodigal Son]

HKB, post of the day in terms of a good post or talking tosh?

I also think the club has a part to play in SE Essex that if you could at least buy a SUFC shirt in places like Basildon/Brentwood it would raise the profile of the club.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Upminster Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,12:55)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Sep. 01 2005,12:41)](For the record, I hate the Hammers, but (a) we&#39;re not rivals with them;

But we do compete for fans and income, in my book that makes us big rivals.

Spot on.

What makes us rivals is that we are competing off the pitch for fans, income and the other thing I would add is respect.

We&#39;ve never had to compete with Col Ewe for any of those things (and have hardly played them in the league _that_ often).

Growing up in Southend, supporting Southend, I had the p%&amp;s ripped out of me for being a Southend fan, more often than not by hasmters. I like to think that although outnumbered, I use to give as good as I got. Surely that is what a rivalry is all about? Beating wet sham on 07 April 1993 ranks as one of the sweetest moments of being a Southend fan, alongside Cardiff, alongside promotion etc.

I enjoyed Monday&#39;s win immensely, but there is no-one to gloat over. I don&#39;t know, nor can I even recall having even ever met a single Col Ewe fan. There can be no fan-rivalry if there is no fans to be rivals with.

In fact, as far as I can see, any rivalry is based on a history of football violence. I choose not to associate myself with that scene (and these days you get to make the choice whether you get caught up in it, which previous generations might not have had). Apart from the honour of being best team in Essex (one of which we have had by stint of our league position for much of our history) there is IMHO no cause for rivalry.

 

[Upminster Blue]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,13:54)]Beating wet sham on 07 April 1993 ranks as one of the sweetest moments of being a Southend fan, alongside Cardiff, alongside promotion etc.

Exactly!  At the final whistle there were several grown men near me in the West Stand crying (and before you ask, they were Shrimpers).  

In my mind, that night definitely ranks up there with any promotion or LDV final and definitely surpasses the Col U derbies I've been to over the last 20 years (the only one that came close was the Roots Hall LDV semi but that was because we were going to Cardiff, not because it was Col U).

 

[* ORM *]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,13:54)]In fact, as far as I can see, any rivalry is based on a history of football violence. I choose not to associate myself with that scene (and these days you get to make the choice whether you get caught up in it, which previous generations might not have had). Apart from the honour of being best team in Essex (one of which we have had by stint of our league position for much of our history) there is IMHO no cause for rivalry.

Eh ? Sorry ? WTF ?

When SUFC/Col Ewe league fixtures were a regular thing violence was there for those who chose to follow that path but the vast majority saw it as an Essex derby and a game that had to be won. In those days the thought of playing competitive matches with WH were a pipe dream, other than a memorable cup and double-replay.

Orient, was and still is, not considered a derby. Just a game between two relatively close teams geographically with good communication links. Hence the bigger gates. To a lesser extent Brentford/Gillingham games were in a similar vein. Fulham weren&#39;t even in the picture in my early days, though I do remember playing Crystal Palace in a league match at the Hall.

In those days I&#39;m not sure teams like Canvey were even a member of the Essex Senior league. If Canvey, or Billericay, or Grays, Dag/Red etc got promoted to the FL (which would be fantastic), these too would be considered major Essex derbies, almost surpassing Col Ewe in their importance, except that the Col Ewe derby has history and rightly so.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Sep. 01 2005,14:16)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,13:54)]In fact, as far as I can see, any rivalry is based on a history of football violence. I choose not to associate myself with that scene (and these days you get to make the choice whether you get caught up in it, which previous generations might not have had). Apart from the honour of being best team in Essex (one of which we have had by stint of our league position for much of our history) there is IMHO no cause for rivalry.

Eh ? Sorry ? WTF ?

When SUFC/Col Ewe league fixtures were a regular thing violence was there for those who chose to follow that path but the vast majority saw it as an Essex derby and a game that had to be won. In those days the thought of playing competitive matches with WH were a pipe dream, other than a memorable cup and double-replay.

Orient, was and still is, not considered a derby. Just a game between two relatively close teams geographically with good communication links. Hence the bigger gates. To a lesser extent Brentford/Gillingham games were in a similar vein. Fulham weren&#39;t even in the picture in my early days, though I do remember playing Crystal Palace in a league match at the Hall.

Apologies, I&#39;m not old enough to fully remember the days when we lost to Col Ewe. Why was it a game that had to be won?

Were there a large number of Col******r fans living in and around Southend? Would Southend fans work in the same office/factory/farm as Col******r fans? Would the local media be ramming it down Southend&#39;s fans throats if we lost?

The Southend-West Ham game for me was a must win, because I&#39;d know that if we lost my life would be made a misery, but if we won, I&#39;d be making the hamsters fans&#39; lives a misery. If we lost, it would be impossible to escape them, whether at school, or later at work or down the pub. That is to me, what makes it a rivalry.

Heretical though it may seem, I have never had that experience with Col Ewe. Col Ewe seem to inhabit a different sphere to Southend (and I don&#39;t just mean non-league football compared to Southend&#39;s ever present league status since 1920). If you look in the local newspaper, the Echo will carry (occasionally) stories on Southend and (shamefully) Wet Sham, but nothing on Col******r. Col******r&#39;s profile in SE Essex is neglible.

I like to think I&#39;m fairly au fait with Southend&#39;s history and folklore, but I can&#39;t think of too many stories to do with Southend-Col******r games, other than Peter Daley&#39;s solo goal relegating them back to the conference. This is the reason I linked it with football violence, as the majority of stories are to do with run ins between both sets of supporters rather than events on the pitch. Also many of the songs sung about Col Ewe are songs glorifying football hooliganism against Col Ewe (ie pulling down Layer Road, Col Ewe fan on a piece of string).

Any views.....

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 01 2005,17:07)]Any views.....

Total number of league games against Col Ewe:    55
Total number of league games against West Ham:  2

You do the math.

 

My view is that for geographical reasons we don't have any real rivals.  Other than that, take your pick... we've all got reasons to dislike West Ham, Orient, Col Ewe, Cambridge, Birmingham, Aldershot, Brighton, Brentford... etc. etc.

I also agree for financial and population/migration reasons we are vying with West Ham for people and cash.

But that does not  make the game a derby, which was the point of my article.  A derby signifies two-way emnity, two-way rivalry.  You cannot have a one-sided derby relationship - it simply doesn't work like that.

And if you think it would mean more to a Hamster (other than, for purely geographical reasons, a Hamster fan who happens to live in Southend) to beat us rather than, say, Barnsley - then I'm afraid you're dreaming.

Matt

 

[(S)(U)(F)(C)]

Quote[/b] (Prodigal Son @ Aug. 31 2005,21:24)]I hope Mr. Scriven can answer this post. The bigger programme is good but I refer you to page 27 where Matt Walker says ''we are a minnow compared to West Ham'' ,'' West Ham have always been a giant compared to us'' and ''we should continue to welcome Hammers fans to home games with welcome arms''.......

I have no idea who Matt Walker is but is this the club's official stance? Do you have editorial control?

Apologies to those who had to witness an anti-WHU thread recently do we have o have this in the programme glorifying WHU?  

He also mentions ''bragging rights'' but I have never met a Col U fan despite spending all of Sunday in Col******r so just who exactly do we brag to? It's a bit like North and south Korea in that you never see them.

Maybe we can give the WHU fans their own section of Roots Hall?

I agree 100% with that. Fair enough if they want to come and watch us I have no problems with that, and neither do I think they are big rivals to us. But to write stuff like that in OUR OWN matchday programme just makes us look stupid to be honest.

If some Shrimpers fans have connections with West Ham then fair enough, but please dont put us down as a club and say 'we are a minnow compared to West Ham'. If you feel this then its up to you but please dont make it look like all of us Shrimpers fans think it.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] ((S)(U)(F)(C) @ Sep. 01 2005,17:23)]But to write stuff like that in OUR OWN matchday programme just makes us look stupid to be honest.

If some Shrimpers fans have connections with West Ham then fair enough, but please dont put us down as a club and say &#39;we are a minnow compared to West Ham&#39;. If you feel this then its up to you but please dont make it look like all of us Shrimpers fans think it.

Look, it&#39;s just my opinion on my feature article page. It&#39;s not the club&#39;s view, it&#39;s my view.

Sorry if you don&#39;t like it, but I&#39;m not going to stop expressing my opinion just because my views may be unpopular.

Matt