The continuing hoofball debate

[cluniemore]

A wee birdie told me that the gaffer is still surprised at some of the fans interpretation of our style of play. The stats show we played more balls into the final third at crewe port vale and rotherham than any other away game and those games have been dubbed as great football games the wee birdie feels an explanation from these learned gentleman would be appreciated.

 

[Hotman]

don't worry sturrock, swindon fans say exactly the same, they love you for what you did there but it was crap football

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Tell Luggy what I tell everyone, if we are in League 1 next season, no one will give a rats arse how we got there. Just get us out of this horrid division, by whatever means.

 

[Jam_Man]

Most people only started complaining about the style of football when our unbeaten run came to an end. There was certainly some people grumbling about the type of play towards the end of the run but there was no major outcry until we lost.

Keep winning and you will get less complaints, but looking at the big picture will the same style of play be adopted if we are in League One ?

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

There's a difference between hoof ball and being direct.

We've been very direct at times this season but especially on Saturday at Northampton we showed we can play some superb football.

Teams that play hoof ball aren't sitting top of the league having scored 50 goals by January.

Teams that play hoof ball are sitting bottom of the league with Aidy Hoofroyd in charge.

 

[Jam_Man]

There's a difference between hoof ball and being direct.

We've been very direct at times this season but especially on Saturday at Northampton we showed we can play some superb football.

Teams that play hoof ball aren't sitting top of the league having scored 50 goals by January.

Teams that play hoof ball are sitting bottom of the league with Aidy Hoofroyd in charge.

You dont remember John Becks Cambridge or the twin towers of Lincoln then :)

 

[Kent Shrimper]

Tell Luggy what I tell everyone, if we are in League 1 next season, no one will give a rats arse how we got there. Just get us out of this horrid division, by whatever means.

Spot on, by hook or by crook (don't panic Ron) do whatever you need to

 

[southchurch]

A wee birdie told me that the gaffer is still surprised at some of the fans interpretation of our style of play. The stats show we played more balls into the final third at crewe port vale and rotherham than any other away game and those games have been dubbed as great football games the wee birdie feels an explanation from these learned gentleman would be appreciated.

Good timing to come on here just after a 5-2 win in which, especially in the 2nd half we did play some nice passing football. I don’t think you could have interpreted the defenders hoofing it as hard and high as they could without a second thought of where the ball is going (Swindon , Bradford and Dagenham at home) as anything other than hoof ball. Quoting stats such as those never really works because we all know stats can be very deceptive, What we could see with our own eyes was the ball being continuously knocked over midfield and avoiding all our best playmakers , so don't be surprised when we call it hoofing. I am not quite sure the games you mention were dubbed 'great games’. They were however considered great wins which is a slightly different matter. The hoof ball debate could well be over forever if we continue to knock it about as we did 2nd half V Northampton.
No one is saying never hit it long. That would be ridiculous but a good blend of passing mixed with the occasional long ball and if in any danger at the back then god bless the hoof out of trouble. This is my explanation as asked for. And as I have said before thanks for listening.

 

[greyerfox]

This thread raises an interesting point as to the difference (if any) between cluniemore, the wee birdie and the gaffer. This conundrum is worthy of the attentions of Morse or perhaps Inspector Clouseau. Meanwhile, roll on Saturday and the game at Shrewsbury which will require the full attention of all three, two, or one of the aforementioned characters, the detectives excepted.

 

[NZamba Legend]

As everyone who played 'championship manager' (not the new versions) will know- 'long ball' and 'direct passing' are two very different options. For me it is clear that Luggy is still playing a 2002/03 version and has clicked on the latter.

 

[techfire1]

When it's going well people are gonna say it's brilliant, direct, effective football, when it's not going so well they're gonna crow and call it hoofball. It's the same with teams like arsenal, when they're playing well it's "beautiful, free flowing football, the way it's meant to be played" and when they lose it's "ineffective, aimless, one pass too many" you can't win either way. But as others have said, if promotion is secured, no-one will give a moneys

 

[MK Shrimper]

This thread raises an interesting point as to the difference (if any) between cluniemore, the wee birdie and the gaffer.

Must be one and the same as people having multiple log ins and various ID's is not allowed.

 

[palexander]

Some people will never be happy Luggy and hanker after the beautiful free flowing Barcelona-esque football played EVERY game under our previous management :dim:

Ignore it, keep going as we are looking to have a very good system now with 2 out and out wingers, Dicko in inspired form (which I believe is the real secret to your system - having a willing target man where the ball will stick in the final 1/3) and goals coming from all angles.

How people can complain is beyond me and must be really frustrating for the management and players.

 

[southchurch]

When it's going well people are gonna say it's brilliant, direct, effective football, when it's not going so well they're gonna crow and call it hoofball. It's the same with teams like arsenal, when they're playing well it's "beautiful, free flowing football, the way it's meant to be played" and when they lose it's "ineffective, aimless, one pass too many" you can't win either way. But as others have said, if promotion is secured, no-one will give a moneys

Not true ! Many people even after beating Vale 3-0 were saying it was ugly football and horrible to watch. One guy commented that he coulnt believe how flat he felt having just won 3-0 and that he had never had that feeling before after such a great win. When I read that I knew exactly how he felt.

 

[southchurch]

Some people will never be happy Luggy and hanker after the beautiful free flowing Barcelona-esque football played EVERY game under our previous management :dim:

Ignore it, keep going as we are looking to have a very good system now with 2 out and out wingers, Dicko in inspired form (which I believe is the real secret to your system - having a willing target man where the ball will stick in the final 1/3) and goals coming from all angles.

How people can complain is beyond me and must be really frustrating for the management and players.

If we had not mentioned we were unhappy with the hoofball it might not have been changed as it has been. And since new players arrived no one has complained because we are waiting to see how things develop. So far so very good .

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

Good timing to come on here just after a 5-2 win in which, especially in the 2nd half we did play some nice passing football. I don’t think you could have interpreted the defenders hoofing it as hard and high as they could without a second thought of where the ball is going (Swindon , Bradford and Dagenham at home) as anything other than hoof ball. Quoting stats such as those never really works because we all know stats can be very deceptive, What we could see with our own eyes was the ball being continuously knocked over midfield and avoiding all our best playmakers , so don't be surprised when we call it hoofing. I am not quite sure the games you mention were dubbed 'great games’. They were however considered great wins which is a slightly different matter. The hoof ball debate could well be over forever if we continue to knock it about as we did 2nd half V Northampton.
No one is saying never hit it long. That would be ridiculous but a good blend of passing mixed with the occasional long ball and if in any danger at the back then god bless the hoof out of trouble. This is my explanation as asked for. And as I have said before thanks for listening.

A perfect summary.

Cluniemore I assume you disagree with this ?

It's a compelling and very well written response, I would like to see you address the points raised, I think we all know by now the gaffer is "surprised". How about the gaffer giving us the benefit of his years of experience and explaining the finer technical points as he sees them in a way us lesser mortals can understand.

 

[Jam_Man]

If we had not mentioned we were unhappy with the hoofball it might not have been changed as it has been. And since new players arrived no one has complained because we are waiting to see how things develop. So far so very good .

Has it been ?

From the first post on this thread there is no mention that we are playing any different and he is basically asking why people arent complaining after winning certain games when we did emply the direct tactic.

One half against Northampton who have won one game in 16 isnt a yardstick to measure a change in style of play.

 

[Firestorm]

As I have mentioned before, a 40 yard pass from the back finds a team mate and starts an attack, its a good early ball
minutes later a similar 40 yard ball gets intercepted and its a hoof.

I believe that a lot of the longer ball is down to the full backs and midfield, if they show for the ball when the two CB's have got it then it is more likely to be knocked short and play can build, give the two CB's no one to pass to and what are they left with....

 

[fbm]

Cluniemore,

Personally I don't think it's hoofball but a lot of home games haven't been that entertaining. First halves have generally been dull, second halves generally better but we have been getting results, which has been the saving grace.

We seem to be a lot more entertaining away from home, Crawley, Swindon and Cheltenham being the exceptions. Unfortunately, most fans don't go away.

Port Vale for me was a very easy win against a poor side, but I would have loved us in the last half hour to have totally taken them to pieces as we did to Northampton last weekend. Instead we sat back and played keepball, which meant that once their guy got sent off the game effectively finished and we may as well have gone home. If the game had been the other way around, i.e. dull first half and then two goals in second half we'd all be saying what a wonderful game it was.

I guess it's a results v entertainment argument... we're league two so we ain't gonna play like Barcelona. Personally, I think I know enough about the game to realise that each league carries different challenges and the teams style generally has to change as they progress. Your record in this league is incredible and you certainly know how to get out of it in the right direction. The Plymouth side you had that won the title was one of the best at this level I'd ever seen and you only beat us 1-0 here. That performance however was similar to the Northampton one last week... direct and entertaining.

If the players played like that at home, you'd be an even bigger hero than you already are.

 

[Jam_Man]

What Id like to know is what people would say if we now started to try to play more passing football and lost out on promotion. There were comments in other threads that people would rather see us draw than win ugly, I just dont believe thats true.

I dont want us to be a team that relies on direct balls and hope it doesnt continue if we go up, but its working at the moment and if it gets us promoted great. Next season I hope for an improvement in style/entertainment.