The continuing hoofball debate

[hockleyshrimper]

If someone hoofed the ball 2 seconds before Northampton scored their first goal no one would have complained.

 

[Angell Delight]

Thank you Paul.

Could you give me some facts like what percentage of the 90 minutes has the ball been in the air vs on the deck this season ? LOL

I'll give you a fact - I'm absolutely delighted with how the season has gone so far and think Sturrock has done an incredible job in a very short space of time - fact! :thumbsup: :smile:

 

[Leoblue]

I'll give you a fact - I'm absolutely delighted with how the season has gone so far and think Sturrock has done an incredible job in a very short space of time - fact! :thumbsup: :smile:

What he said - FACT

 

[McNasty]

I just love it when people post on here to get a reaction.

 

[jamesmut2000]

I just love it when people post on here to get a reaction.

are you referring to Cluniemore???:hilarious:

 

[Ricky Otto]

Firstly there were plenty of people on here who complained at our style of play when Dervitte and Clarke were hoofing it to Robinson to run onto. We played some amazing football under Tilly, we also played some garbage in his last two seasons.

The point is that you can't moan about the style of play in certain matches and not in others because I suspect that if you asked cluniemore (s)he'd say that the style of play has been pretty consistent. What hasn't been consistent is its effectiveness. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, which is the same as any tactic.

Sturrock plays a style of football which gets results at this level and his CV backs that up. I'm sure that he could send a team out on Saturday to pass the ball around in triangles and play pretty football, but he clearly doesn't think that we'll get as many points if we play a different style. And if we have a choice between two styles of play then I, personally, would rather us play the one which sees us score two goals a game and gets us the most points. I've seen plenty of posts on here from people who seemingly would choose a better style of play that may result in fewer points but have yet to see a single decent argument for why.

I wasn't one of them, like I have explained in my post there is a difference between playing the ball long into space for a quick player to run onto and playing a long ball up to a big target man to hold up. IMO the long ball into space with the right player chasing can be entertaining that's why I was a massive fan of JCR when he was here.

The point is that we have played hoofball, this is what Clunniemore is disputing in this thread, that is what I am answering to. I don't think I'm moaning as you say, my post was balanced, I acknowledged that Sturrock is doing a good job and alluded that the hoofball may not be by design. Rome wasn't built in a day, and whilst it is pure speculation, I believe the signings we have made will allow Sturrock to play a slightly more attractive brand of football.

I like to watch attractive football, I'll never stop supporting Southend but I do get other offers on a saturday, I have several friends who are pro's and if I'm not enjoying the way we play I'll go see them. I'm ok with us doing the necessary to get out of this division or to play to the strengths of the players we have as long as the long term plan is to change to a more attractive style. I'd guess you haven't seen a decent argument for a better style of play with fewer points because your opinion differs from those arguing it, I don't however see why playing an attractive passing game would mean we don't pick up as many points?

 

[southchurch]

Insane.

Southchurch, I accept your point of view, you're perfectly entitled to it. But please, are you seriously trying to say that Sturrock, a manager of exceptional experience, will have changed any part of his tactics, transfers, views on the game because a few people complained on a message board that we weren't entertaining enough? I'd wager not.

We play decent football for this level. We get it forward to an increasingly talented bunch of strikers, with one of the best wingers outside the top two divisions on one wing playing in excellent set-pieces, and chipping in with goals. But frankly, we could camp in our own half and continually surrender possession for all I care if it got us promoted, or better yet, won us the division. Yes £20 is a lot of money for something you're not being entertained by. But playing nicer football and losing doesn't feel any better.

Keep going Luggy, you're doing an incredible job. But even when you've dragged this club up to League 1 you might still be surprised, because they'll inevitably be some saying something isn't good enough.

I agree with a lot of what you say. And I would also agree that a manager would not usually read fans forums and take much notice. However, if Cluniemore is either the manager or some one connected with him. Then it would seem he is interested in our opinions and is regularly reading our posts. He would not be human if he did not take some of what he reads on board. He may have thought to himself that there was some element of truth to what we were saying and made slight adjustments to style and personnel, as he has. As my self and the other hooferites have said many times we think Paul has dome a absolutely fantastic job, no doubt about it. We did ask for a bit more football on the deck and it looks like we just might now be getting that. Did he listen to fans ? who knows? I hope he did as that would make me respect him more than ever. Please don't say things along the lines of 'who do you think you are telling our manager what to do'. He is now openly asking for input. If however Cluniemore is an 8 year old girl In Glasgow having a laugh then Paul is not listening so no harm done.
Finally I would like to say that every time I watch Southend and we do have spells of good passing we look at our very best and most likely to win. I dont just want pretty football for the sake of it, it does actually win games if you have the players. We do have the players and thats what has been so frustrating up to now.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Why run the risk of getting caught with the ball in your own half.
More often than not the receiver will be facing his back four. Not the ideal position. Far better to push up
and receive the ball from the front men. I would call it percentage football.

M

You could argue that you also run the risk of bypassing the midfield, many would agree that our midfield is the strongest part of our team. I'm not saying that there isn't a time for a hoof up the field but many seem to see it as black or white with no middle ground (I'm not claiming you are one of them)

 

[shrimpfan]

:

I just love it when people post on here to get a reaction.

...........................................:finger2:

 

[McNasty]

Perhaps our manager ( or someone close to him and the wee birdie ) comes on here to get an idea of what he may be asked at next week's Q & A session.

Sounding out the crowd ?

 

[shrimpfan]

A wee birdie told me that the gaffer is still surprised at some of the fans interpretation of our style of play. The stats show we played more balls into the final third at crewe port vale and rotherham than any other away game and those games have been dubbed as great football games the wee birdie feels an explanation from these learned gentleman would be appreciated.

Bet your loving this :thumbsup:

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

A wee birdie told me .

...... This 'wee birdie' seems to me, to be nothing more than a 'snitch' or 'grass'?.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

News on Luggys future and contract in tomorrows Echo apparently.

 

[McNasty]

News on Luggys future and contract in tomorrows Echo apparently.

I hope he isn't putting a contract on any of his detractors on the Zone. The hit-man would be quite busy. :flamer:

 

[Piece of String]

It's funny how there are a couple of earlier posts in this thread stating that over the past 18months the question was asked that if a direct style was adopted then would people be happy about it. Evidently the majority are.

However, As a long time lurker, I seem to remember amongst those mourning Tilsons departure, the caveats that Blair would be signed as well as a lot of Sturrock's ex players and a radical "un-Southend like" style adopted. This is definitely the case I'd say & has again come to the fore of discussion in the wake of December's slump in form. This obviously has got the backs up of those who put results first over style & substance, not to mention the manager &/or Cluniemore!

Funny the Rotherham game gets quoted as an "entertaining spectacle" by Mr Sturr....Cluniemore, I honestly don't think I've ever seen a Southend game where we scored two carbon copy goals, let alone ones where the ball didn't hardly touch the ground from being thrown back into play! Very direct & not very Southend!

Contract news in the Echo on Thursday, was PS given a 2 or 3 year deal in 2010? With his health issues will he take more of a back seat & prime GC to take over the reigns say in 13/14?

Also, those who say the quality being brought in is to cement promotion push & build for Lg1, I'd say a change in style is definitely needed after promotion, look at the Lg1 table, Chesterfield were so strong (& direct) last year, as to a lesser extent were Wycombe!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shrimp and two veg]

For me, the style of our play will matter when we face the top teams. We need to start playing better and have more possession, i fear in those tight games we may just throw it away.
I believe the fact we have two good wingers and Moshni to use as a sub is a great weapon in our armoury and will change the face of our play. It means we can get around the back of teams and turn defences around, facing their 'keeper and they will find it increasingly difficult to cope against us. So, we don't need to pass through teams, we will go around them. BUT, like i say, we'll need possession of the ball against the top few and that's an issue i'm concerned with.

 

[applelover]

I got 28-1 on us winning the title so I don't give two hoots how we play as long as I get to withdraw a tidy four figure sum from my online betting account in May.

The problem for me is the home form for me and I think that we as fans have to take some resposibility for this. We have a substantial proportion of home fans who have got on our players backs ever since Luggy took over and this has dented our players confidence at Roots Hall. This lack of confidence has resulted in players being scared to retain the ball instead resorting to the safe options of chipping it into the channels.

I believe that there are those who would welcome poor results and ever administration as they believe that this would be a means to get rid of Ron Martin. As a supporter who didn't miss a home game during the Tilson era I don't remember the guaranteed free flowing beautiful football that some seem to romanticise about. I remember some great performances and some truely breath-taking skill from Freddy Eastwood, Mark Gower etc but I also remember a lot of hard fought gritty performances with wins achieved through hard work and endeavour.

I believe that a lot of this hoofball debate is a direct result of a clouded memory of the Tilson era fuelled by anti-Martin sentiment. I've loved this season and with players like Hall, Timlin, Barker, Moshni etc really look forward to every game. Given the situation he took over I don't think any manager could have done a better job than PS.

Up the blues.

 

[leeblue]

I got 28-1 on us winning the title so I don't give two hoots how we play as long as I get to withdraw a tidy four figure sum from my online betting account in May.

The problem for me is the home form for me and I think that we as fans have to take some resposibility for this. We have a substantial proportion of home fans who have got on our players backs ever since Luggy took over and this has dented our players confidence at Roots Hall. This lack of confidence has resulted in players being scared to retain the ball instead resorting to the safe options of chipping it into the channels.

I believe that there are those who would welcome poor results and ever administration as they believe that this would be a means to get rid of Ron Martin. As a supporter who didn't miss a home game during the Tilson era I don't remember the guaranteed free flowing beautiful football that some seem to romanticise about. I remember some great performances and some truely breath-taking skill from Freddy Eastwood, Mark Gower etc but I also remember a lot of hard fought gritty performances with wins achieved through hard work and endeavour.

I believe that a lot of this hoofball debate is a direct result of a clouded memory of the Tilson era fuelled by anti-Martin sentiment. I've loved this season and with players like Hall, Timlin, Barker, Moshni etc really look forward to every game. Given the situation he took over I don't think any manager could have done a better job than PS.

Up the blues.

couldnt agree more, I still think that many people are still dealing with what i dubbed the post tilly strop out syndrome and even being top of the league and looking certs for promotion is not good enough, IMO ridiculous

 

[Tommy2holes]

I think paul has done an amazing job since he has been here.

This is league two football. There is no top draw sides they are all in the top six of league 1 or well above.

Slowly but surely we have continued to improve the quality of the side and as we have done so the quality of our play has improved.

In short with the players we had at our disposal we played accordingly to get results.

Now we have a better balance and quality we should see an improvement in style.

That is the way of things.

Im sure as time goes on and confidence builds that the style and mix of our play will change especially if we go up to league 1.

I didnt at first , but i do now trust luggy and i also tara brady to take the club places tilly and ron probably couldnt towards the end of tenure.

 

[fbm]

Luggy has done a fantastic job here, it's great that we are top (equally great when we're 3rd!) and we have had some brilliant results.

However, for me and the friends I go with there is almost a feeling of "Hmm... could be better" after every home game. Not so away, where, aside from the 3 defeats, we've been majestic.

There have been certain home games - Oxford, Dagenham, Plymouth and Morecambe immediately spring to mind - where we have been incredibly lucky to get anything at all and it has been down to our opponents awful finishing rather than our good defending that we didn't lose all those games and by some margin.

Even last Saturday against Northampton, at 2-2 they were all over us and could have scored 4 goals in a 10 minute spell before we got the 3rd.

My point is that there is always room for improvement and despite us being top, scoring all these goals, etc., fortune has played no small part in our rise. For me it's not about hoofball at all which I've never really got.

We only have to show relegation form from here on in to get in the playoffs and be mediocre to get promotion. I just hope that luck doesn't suddenly start going against us.