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I've put up with a lot of grief on Twitter recently concerning this from people who maintain that it's "no pyro, no party". It's not been nice, though I've tried to be civil and polite. Unfortunately some have confused criticism over the smoke bombs with criticism of those who do a good job otherwise in trying to maintain an atmosphere in the ground and there's been an awful lot of disrespect to those of us who prefer to sit at games - whether for age or health reasons. Seems such a shame that there is a total lack of respect to those of us who've been around for some time and that it's clouded (no pun intended) the very valid arguments concerning smoke bombs. I've had to block a couple of people now and also change my Twitter settings.

We are all on the same side, we are all supporting our football club, just have a little respect for others please.
 
is another reminder that the use of smoke bombs and pyrotechnics is strictly prohibited by the Football League

Presume UEFA have different rules for their games?. Did'nt see Cologne fans being ejected or nicked when they held their own 'torchlight display' at The Emirates on Thursday?.

Saw an article about this earlier..

"[FONT=&quot]The German club have been hit with four charges, including one of crowd disturbances and also acts of damage, setting off fireworks and throwing of objects."[/FONT]
 
I think the pyro thing is pretty pointless really and it only looks good if it is part of a huge display like they do abroad.

But I can't help feeling there is frustration from the younger fans in this country. They are so heavily regulated in comparison to their counterparts in foreign countries. They read things from Germany about the atmospheres and the ultras of European clubs and these are young lads desperate to create an atmosphere for their club but they run into legislation wherever they turn. They can't drink in view of the pitch (ergo they get hammered before and after), they're not allowed to stand so they do it anyway and therefore inconvenience some fans who do want to sit, they are discriminated against generally in the media and by local residents/the police for being football supporters. It has created a climate of rebellion and at the end of the day, if you treat people like animals for long enough, they will start to behave like them.

I've stood on a terrace in Germany. The atmosphere was incredible. The average age was probably about 20. Everyone was having the time of their lives and there was no trouble, not even a hint of menace. Most people were enjoying a beer. These people were free to enjoy themselves and they did. I'm sure there were plenty of fans who prefer a quieter life, and they either stood around the sides of the end terrace or sat in the side stands. From what I could tell, not only was it a raucous atmosphere, it was a pretty happy atmosphere.

I do understand the concerns of fans around the use of smoke bombs. What we really need is a situation where these fans can **** about and pyro to their hearts content without inconveniencing or annoying other supporters. They seem to manage it well enough on the continent.

I can see both sides really. I'm young enough to still enjoy away games with my mates and have a few beers on the train etc, but too old to be in the thick of the singing or not be ****ed off when you see people acting like ********s cos they can't take their ale. But I know a few of those lads that were on that boat at Charlton and they are all decent people who have supported the club through thick and thin for many years and if they hired a boat to **** about for an away game then arguably that's the best place to do it. Hard to see many fish kicking up a fuss.
 
Jai, I respect that, but why do they have such a cavalier attitude to the effect on the club in having to pay fines and to other supporters? I've seen scared children in close proximity to W block just after one has been let off, it's illegal and it's therefore unacceptable.

And, with the greatest of respect, the majority of those on that boat were under 25, so I would question whether they have been there "through thick and thin"! There's a long way to go to catch up with some of us older supporters.
 
I think the pyro thing is pretty pointless really and it only looks good if it is part of a huge display like they do abroad.

But I can't help feeling there is frustration from the younger fans in this country. They are so heavily regulated in comparison to their counterparts in foreign countries. They read things from Germany about the atmospheres and the ultras of European clubs and these are young lads desperate to create an atmosphere for their club but they run into legislation wherever they turn. They can't drink in view of the pitch (ergo they get hammered before and after), they're not allowed to stand so they do it anyway and therefore inconvenience some fans who do want to sit, they are discriminated against generally in the media and by local residents/the police for being football supporters. It has created a climate of rebellion and at the end of the day, if you treat people like animals for long enough, they will start to behave like them.

I've stood on a terrace in Germany. The atmosphere was incredible. The average age was probably about 20. Everyone was having the time of their lives and there was no trouble, not even a hint of menace. Most people were enjoying a beer. These people were free to enjoy themselves and they did. I'm sure there were plenty of fans who prefer a quieter life, and they either stood around the sides of the end terrace or sat in the side stands. From what I could tell, not only was it a raucous atmosphere, it was a pretty happy atmosphere.

I do understand the concerns of fans around the use of smoke bombs. What we really need is a situation where these fans can **** about and pyro to their hearts content without inconveniencing or annoying other supporters. They seem to manage it well enough on the continent.

I can see both sides really. I'm young enough to still enjoy away games with my mates and have a few beers on the train etc, but too old to be in the thick of the singing or not be ****ed off when you see people acting like ********s cos they can't take their ale. But I know a few of those lads that were on that boat at Charlton and they are all decent people who have supported the club through thick and thin for many years and if they hired a boat to **** about for an away game then arguably that's the best place to do it. Hard to see many fish kicking up a fuss.

agree with everything you've said but smoke bombs are potentially dangerous, they're rightly banned, in comparison to safe standing/drinking
 
Jai, I respect that, but why do they have such a cavalier attitude to the effect on the club in having to pay fines and to other supporters? I've seen scared children in close proximity to W block just after one has been let off, it's illegal and it's therefore unacceptable.

And, with the greatest of respect, the majority of those on that boat were under 25, so I would question whether they have been there "through thick and thin"! There's a long way to go to catch up with some of us older supporters.

I can only speak of the fans I know. They are in their mid to late 30s and have been going longer than me. I wouldn't argue though that most were of the younger bracket. There's not much they can do about not going as long as you have. That stuff about going longer makes you a better fan is total rubbish anyway. I could show you some people in the South Upper who have been going for donkeys years and still shout the same rubbish every week, abusing their own players. Anyway, I fail to see what the chaps on the boat were doing wrong. I've been tempted to sign up for one of those boat trips myself.

I agree the smoke bombs in the ground while the club is getting fined, and around other fans who are not like-minded, is stupid. It doesn't help anyone. I am convinced though that we are overregulated as football supporters and actually giving fans more leeway would actually reduce some of the issues. Safe standing hopefully is on the way and that will help but there are so many issues with how football fans are legislated against that need to be addressed.

As I say, I can see both sides. But I think we in this country work so hard to put young, working class fans off the game and it's working. There have never been so few attending games. We all did silly things when we were young and I while I do find some of the things these fans do irritating (thowing beer on the concourse is my pet hate), I understand these lads are the beating heart of the club. Many of them go everywhere, they also are the group of fans who spend the most money in proportion to their income.

Believe me I understand your point of view and agree with much of what you say. But youngsters will always rebel, which is what my tongue in cheek comment about legalising pyro at the start of this thread alluded to.
 
agree with everything you've said but smoke bombs are potentially dangerous, they're rightly bad, in comparison to safe standing/drinking

They are not my cup of tea and I do think they are a bit tinpot but they are a by-product of the climate. The over-regulation and the contempt football fans are held in.
 
I can only speak of the fans I know. They are in their mid to late 30s and have been going longer than me. I wouldn't argue though that most were of the younger bracket. There's not much they can do about not going as long as you have. That stuff about going longer makes you a better fan is total rubbish anyway. I could show you some people in the South Upper who have been going for donkeys years and still shout the same rubbish every week, abusing their own players. Anyway, I fail to see what the chaps on the boat were doing wrong. I've been tempted to sign up for one of those boat trips myself.

Believe me I understand your point of view and agree with much of what you say. But youngsters will always rebel, which is what my tongue in cheek comment about legalising pyro at the start of this thread alluded to.

I'm not throwing how long I've been a supporter as opposed to them about as if it's giving me some kind of "right" - the "thick and thin" comment meant that they've really not been about through much "thin".

I'm saying that they should respect that there are many different ways to show your support for the club and standing as part of the pack in W block is not the only way. Being there also doesn't make them any better than any of the rest of us.
 
Sadly their are older supporters on FB and on Twitter who really should know better and laugh along with those causing the incidents. Once a "lad" forever a "lad" I guess, even though you're married with kids. #midlifecrisis
 
For info, the National League commenced a 'Smoke - No Joke' campaign 2 years ago in relation to the use of flares, smoke bombs and pyros. This is from Aldershot's website...


Aldershot Town Football Club reiterates its full support for the National League’s Smoke No Joke campaign to reduce and eradicate the indiscriminate use of flares, smoke bombs and pyrotechnics at matches.[FONT=&quot]Flares and smoke bombs disrupt play and people’s enjoyment of games, and the toxins they contain can seriously damage health and/or cause life-threatening injury or concern.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have been directed to take the strongest action available against anyone found in possession of a Flare, Smoke Bomb or any other such pyrotechnic article(s). Spectators are warned that we and The National League apply a zero-tolerance approach to anyone attempting to bring such article(s) into The EBB Stadium or at any away fixture.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Due to their chemical make-up, a Flare, Smoke Bomb and all such pyrotechnic article(s) can lead to serious health consequences for those with pre-existing medical conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In order to protect all supporters, we reserve the right to search your person and/or effects, and we further reserve the right to pursue legal action, civil or criminal, against any person who contravenes current legislation or our stadium regulations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To further safeguard all who attend any event at The EBB Stadium, we welcome the receipt of any information which will assist us to deter, apprehend, detain and, where appropriate, prosecute anyone in possession of, or found discharging or being a party to the discharge of, such an article.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Courts have a sentencing guideline of three months’ imprisonment and a three-year football banning order. Those prosecuted face not only a criminal record and imprisonment but also many future difficulties, including restrictions on travel overseas.[/FONT]
 
Quoting OBL, above. "As I mentioned elsewhere on this forum, there was footage on Twitter after the Charlton game of a group of "lads" on a boat on the Thames going under Tower Bridge with a blue smoke bomb and singing Southend chants. Whilst that in itself is not illegal, I would have thought this group of lads are probably worth some scrutiny."

Actually it can be, if they were found in possession of a ticket to the game it could be argued that there was intent to take one to the game which is an offence. If the perpetrator was under 18 then he/she has committed an offence by simply being in possession in a public place when aged under 18.
In fact there are offences that can be committed which would, in normal everyday life, not be an offence but become so as soon as you leave your home with a ticket to a football match, mostly around travelling and alcohol.
 
Im not sure how the liftetime ban works? Even if you are caught bang to rights so to speak, whats to stop you turning up at away games and carrying on the fireworks? I dont think Ive ever been mugshot tested?
 
I've put up with a lot of grief on Twitter recently concerning this from people who maintain that it's "no pyro, no party". It's not been nice, though I've tried to be civil and polite. Unfortunately some have confused criticism over the smoke bombs with criticism of those who do a good job otherwise in trying to maintain an atmosphere in the ground and there's been an awful lot of disrespect to those of us who prefer to sit at games - whether for age or health reasons. Seems such a shame that there is a total lack of respect to those of us who've been around for some time and that it's clouded (no pun intended) the very valid arguments concerning smoke bombs. I've had to block a couple of people now and also change my Twitter settings.

We are all on the same side, we are all supporting our football club, just have a little respect for others please.

Yeah, they've just started on me; only trouble is, for them, they've made potentially physical threats, which I've screen-shotted and copied in to the police. Not the brightest move on the individual's part...
 
Quoting OBL, above. "As I mentioned elsewhere on this forum, there was footage on Twitter after the Charlton game of a group of "lads" on a boat on the Thames going under Tower Bridge with a blue smoke bomb and singing Southend chants. Whilst that in itself is not illegal, I would have thought this group of lads are probably worth some scrutiny."

Actually it can be, if they were found in possession of a ticket to the game it could be argued that there was intent to take one to the game which is an offence. If the perpetrator was under 18 then he/she has committed an offence by simply being in possession in a public place when aged under 18.
In fact there are offences that can be committed which would, in normal everyday life, not be an offence but become so as soon as you leave your home with a ticket to a football match, mostly around travelling and alcohol.
How could you argue that setting it off hours before the game, nowehere near the stadium is intent to take it to the game? If they intended to take it into the game they wouldn't have set it off there would they.
 
Yeah, they've just started on me; only trouble is, for them, they've made potentially physical threats, which I've screen-shotted and copied in to the police. Not the brightest move on the individual's part...

Just read the exchange on Twitter - wow that lad's an embarrassment.

Good for you copying the Police in and quite right too.
 
This has been a long standing debate here in Oz, where the different cultural backgrounds of fans from all over the world mean that 'Pyro' is a part of fan culture. However the authorities take the same view as they do in the UK and have a zero tolerance so we have the same issues with clubs giving warnings and facing fines if it happens.

Now I have to say that I really like Pyro at games. I think it looks great, especially at a night game.

However if it's not tolerated within the league then sadly all fans who light them are doing is putting their club at risk of a fine their club probably can't afford and a themselves at risk of prosecution or arrest.

Ideally i'd like to see what they've done at some grounds in the US and have controlled pyro displays where it can be safe but where you still get the fantastic visual effect of a burning flame and smoke rolling across the pitch. Don't know why a compromise solution can't be found.
 
Ideally i'd like to see what they've done at some grounds in the US and have controlled pyro displays where it can be safe but where you still get the fantastic visual effect of a burning flame and smoke rolling across the pitch. Don't know why a compromise solution can't be found.

..what if the game is delayed (a fine) or even called off, because the smoke doesn't clear ?
 
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