Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 0-0 Stevenage

[MisterStubbs]

Barrow fans thought the same. But look at them now with a new manager bounce, 3 wins in their last 5.

This notion that it's MM or the highway and no other manager in the whole wide world couldn't do even marginally better is just boring now.

We will be in the national next year cause we didn't act and we will be thinking "why didn't we gamble for a new manager bounce?"

While Barrow will still be in the football league and thinking how well they done acting quickly. Snooze you lose


*copied this post from another thread I posted*

I was having a debate with someone on twitter who as you mentioned, thought that there was no one out there who could come in and turn this sinking ship around and that we might as well stick with MM because of it.. he was rather stumped when I asked how many people thought Kevin Bond would have come in and save us from relegation first time round? I somewhat agree that it's unlikely that someone will come in and get a tune out of this squad given that games are running out etc but I agree, this "it's MM or no one" notion is bollocks.. for all we know Craig Fagan could take over and change the way we play and win every game from now till the end.. that's the beauty of football, nobody knows what could happen.. one thing I do believe is though that under MM we are getting relegated and for me that doesn't sit right.. I'd rather gamble and take a chance with someone else.

 

[Evening Echo]

SOUTHEND United manager Mark Molesley was disappointed to secure just a share of the spoils against Stevenage.

Read more on this story


Help with Echo links

 

[amsemp]

We've gambled several times before to get a quick fix and it doesn't work. It just papers over the cracks at what has been a long-diseased football club which is, despite the league position, slowly starting to repair itself. What the club needs is a settled period so that somebody can have a clean slate and truly change the club's identity and culture. Molesley is doing that but needs time as he started out with everything against him. It has always looked as though a second successive relegation out of the EFL was going to happen, it was being discussed on this forum 10 games into last season. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was talked about even further back before the Sunderland game when Bond was struggling to keep us up. This was called 2 years ago. Nobody wants it but that's the price we're going to pay for 4 years of gross mismanagement of the club. I'd rather Molesley continue trying to turn this around, and I think he'd do well in the VNL if he can head into the summer without a transfer embargo over his head and with a long, full and undisrupted pre-season with a mostly new squad.

Barrow is a false equivalence. They were never anywhere near as shocking as we have been. Look at their GD. Jolley wanted to play a certain style, it didn't work, their Caretaker manager has changed the style and they're now grinding out wins. Their squad is of a better quality than our's. Our style of play was changed radically and we're still dog ****. We don't have the quality for anyone to get us out of this easily, just face up to facts.

Great post BB - totally agree. I’m very much behind MM and still think he’s a long term appointment. This season has been a horror show, mostly due to the off the pitch situation.

I’ve been asking myself the question recently about what happens if we go down and what happens if we stay up. In either scenario, I think Molesley is the right man to sort us out. He embarked on a project at this club that wasn’t going to be resolved overnight, not even within a season. He’s given us a good base and it’s clear we need a goal scorer, but the foundations are there. If we stay up, I think he’ll know where we need to improve and if we sign a couple of good strikers, I fancy us to do very well next season. If we go down, given MM’s knowledge of the lower leagues and promotions he’s had, I think he’s the ideal manager to give us the best chance of getting back out again.

The idea of sacking him, incurring more debt and rolling the dice with someone like Jolley or the usual suspects that sniff around is just not something that sits well with me. When we hired Bond and Campbell I knew they weren’t going to be long term appointments and the chopping and changing has done us no favours.

I say we keep the faith in MM and he remains in charge whether we stay up or go down.

 

[Chalky]

We've gambled several times before to get a quick fix and it doesn't work. It just papers over the cracks at what has been a long-diseased football club which is, despite the league position, slowly starting to repair itself. What the club needs is a settled period so that somebody can have a clean slate and truly change the club's identity and culture. Molesley is doing that but needs time as he started out with everything against him. It has always looked as though a second successive relegation out of the EFL was going to happen, it was being discussed on this forum 10 games into last season. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was talked about even further back before the Sunderland game when Bond was struggling to keep us up. This was called 2 years ago. Nobody wants it but that's the price we're going to pay for 4 years of gross mismanagement of the club. I'd rather Molesley continue trying to turn this around, and I think he'd do well in the VNL if he can head into the summer without a transfer embargo over his head and with a long, full and undisrupted pre-season with a mostly new squad.

Barrow is a false equivalence. They were never anywhere near as shocking as we have been. Look at their GD. Jolley wanted to play a certain style, it didn't work, their Caretaker manager has changed the style and they're now grinding out wins. Their squad is of a better quality than our's. Our style of play was changed radically and we're still dog ****. We don't have the quality for anyone to get us out of this easily, just face up to facts.

I agree that papering over the cracks is a terrible long term solution, but right now we should exhaust every possible option to avoid exiting the football league. Getting relegated into non-league isn't what I would consider 'settled'.

I strongly disagree that Barrow have a better squad than us. They can't even dream of competing with our wage bill. Oxley, Ricky Holmes, Jacob Mellis, Olayinka, McCormack are levels above any Barrow player. Also, they don't come cheap, trust me.

Barrow I believe have the second lowest wage budget in the league (Harrogate being the lowest).

I'm just so bored of it all, when we win it's "Molesleys best thing since sliced bread, doing wonders with nothing" and when we lose it's "Ron Martins fault all of this, nothing to do with MM" So, which one is it?

The weirdest take of all is "If MM keeps us up he deserves a knighthood blah, blah.." but if we go down its Rons fault. You can't have both. If he is responsible for us staying up, he is also responsible if we go down. Thats the facts I'm facing up to. Praising wins due to his influence and saying his defeats aren't his influence is ****ing stupid.

 

[MisterStubbs]

I agree that papering over the cracks is a terrible long term solution, but right now we should exhaust every possible option to avoid exiting the football league. Getting relegated into non-league isn't what I would consider 'settled'.

I strongly disagree that Barrow have a better squad than us. They can't even dream of competing with our wage bill. Oxley, Ricky Holmes, Jacob Mellis, Olayinka, McCormack are levels above any Barrow player. Also, they don't come cheap, trust me.

Barrow I believe have the second lowest wage budget in the league (Harrogate being the lowest).

I'm just so bored of it all, when we win it's "Molesleys best thing since sliced bread, doing wonders with nothing" and when lose it's "Ron Martins fault all of this, nothing to do with MM" So, which one is it?

The weirdest take of all is "If MM keeps us up he deserves a knighthood blah, blah.." but if we go down its Rons fault. You can't have both. If he is responsible for us staying up, he is also responsible if we go down. Thats the facts I'm facing up to. Praising wins due to his influence and saying his defeats aren't his influence is ****ing stupid.

This.

Getting relegated out of the football league could very well be the end of this football club and that's no exaggeration. Look at some of the football clubs that have fallen out of the league and have struggled to get anywhere close to getting back. Yet some are happy to give MM a free pass and time to try and get things right in the non league.. sorry, if and when we get relegated MM should get the sack.

 

[amsemp]

I was having a debate with someone on twitter who as you mentioned, thought that there was no one out there who could come in and turn this sinking ship around and that we might as well stick with MM because of it.. he was rather stumped when I asked how many people thought Kevin Bond would have come in and save us from relegation first time round? I somewhat agree that it's unlikely that someone will come in and get a tune out of this squad given that games are running out etc but I agree, this "it's MM or no one" notion is bollocks.. for all we know Craig Fagan could take over and change the way we play and win every game from now till the end.. that's the beauty of football, nobody knows what could happen.. one thing I do believe is though that under MM we are getting relegated and for me that doesn't sit right.. I'd rather gamble and take a chance with someone else.

We gambled by sacking Powell and hiring Bond. It paid off in the short term, but not in the long term. In hindsight, would we have been better off letting Powell continue and accepting our fate (whatever it may have been), therefore avoiding the whole Bond/Waddock/Campbell saga? I say we would’ve been. Not a dig at anyone, as despite loving CP, I was in the out camp at the time.

But we need to learn from past mistakes and sacking Molesley now and hiring a replacement at extremely short notice just seems bonkers. We might get a new manager bounce and stay up, but we may not. Either way, we go into next season, in who knows what league, with a manager we hired in a hurry who may not even be the right fit for this club. Then this whole saga continues. I don’t think MM’s a bad manager. Just been dealt a very bad hand. But I think he’s the right man for this club long term.

We talk about managers losing the dressing room, but I really don’t think he has. And I don’t think he’s lost the fans either. There’s still a large amount of fans who recognise the difficulties and want to give him a chance. Sacking him now just makes no real sense to me. From an on the pitch and off the pitch perspective.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

This.

Getting relegated out of the football league could very well be the end of this football club and that's no exaggeration. Look at some of the football clubs that have fallen out of the league and have struggled to get anywhere close to getting back. Yet some are happy to give MM a free pass and time to try and get things right in the non league.. sorry, if and when we get relegated MM should get the sack.

That is an exaggeration. Nobody wants to go out of the league, of course, but it wouldn’t be the end of the football club.

 

[Holy Joe]

I agree that papering over the cracks is a terrible long term solution, but right now we should exhaust every possible option to avoid exiting the football league. Getting relegated into non-league isn't what I would consider 'settled'.

We haven't exhausted the MM option yet.

 

[MisterStubbs]

We gambled by sacking Powell and hiring Bond. It paid off in the short term, but not in the long term. In hindsight, would we have been better off letting Powell continue and accepting our fate (whatever it may have been), therefore avoiding the whole Bond/Waddock/Campbell saga? I say we would’ve been. Not a dig at anyone, as despite loving CP, I was in the out camp at the time.

But we need to learn from past mistakes and sacking Molesley now and hiring a replacement at extremely short notice just seems bonkers. We might get a new manager bounce and stay up, but we may not. Either way, we go into next season, in who knows what league, with a manager we hired in a hurry who may not even be the right fit for this club. Then this whole saga continues. I don’t think MM’s a bad manager. Just been dealt a very bad hand. But I think he’s the right man for this club long term.

We talk about managers losing the dressing room, but I really don’t think he has. And I he hasn’t lost the fans either. There’s still a large amount of fans who recognise the difficulties and want to give him a chance. Sacking him now just makes no real sense to me. From an on the pitch and off the pitch perspective.

I don't believe that he has lost the dressing or that the players aren't playing for him. I just happen to think he isn't the right man for the job, there is no shame in that. Some are suggesting he should be kept because he knows the non leagues.. that in itself is somewhat of an insult to this football club. And what if he does somehow get us straight back up (which very rarely happens) does he then get a pass again if we go down because he knows the non league?

 

[amsemp]

I agree that papering over the cracks is a terrible long term solution, but right now we should exhaust every possible option to avoid exiting the football league. Getting relegated into non-league isn't what I would consider 'settled'.

I strongly disagree that Barrow have a better squad than us. They can't even dream of competing with our wage bill. Oxley, Ricky Holmes, Jacob Mellis, Olayinka, McCormack are levels above any Barrow player. Also, they don't come cheap, trust me.

Barrow I believe have the second lowest wage budget in the league (Harrogate being the lowest).

I'm just so bored of it all, when we win it's "Molesleys best thing since sliced bread, doing wonders with nothing" and when we lose it's "Ron Martins fault all of this, nothing to do with MM" So, which one is it?

The weirdest take of all is "If MM keeps us up he deserves a knighthood blah, blah.." but if we go down its Rons fault. You can't have both. If he is responsible for us staying up, he is also responsible if we go down. Thats the facts I'm facing up to. Praising wins due to his influence and saying his defeats aren't his influence is ****ing stupid.

Good point well made, but I do disagree on MM being responsible if we stay up and responsible if we go down.

If I send you into battle armed with nothing more than a toothpick and you defeat all the enemies, you deserve all the credit in the world. If you lose that battle, it’s on me for sending you into it armed with a toothpick. That’s my take on it anyway. I think people underestimate the **** show Ron made of this season.

 

[amsemp]

I don't believe that he has lost the dressing or that the players aren't playing for him. I just happen to think he isn't the right man for the job, there is no shame in that. Some are suggesting he should be kept because he knows the non leagues.. that in itself is somewhat of an insult to this football club. And what if he does somehow get us straight back up (which very rarely happens) does he then get a pass again if we go down because he knows the non league?

In hindsight, could we have done with a Sturrock type manager with a little book of contacts who want to come and play for him? Absolutely. But we are where we are and very few people thought MM was a bad appointment.

He doesn’t have a book of contacts like Sturrock, so he’s had to contend with our reputation being on the floor and no one wanting to come here. People criticise him like he was blissfully unaware that we needed a goal scorer in January. He obviously knew and obviously tried his bollocks off to get someone in. But I highly doubt there was a queue of agents and great goal scorers lining up to join our relegation battle given our well publicised struggles off the pitch.

I’m not suggesting he should be kept on just because he knows the leagues. I think he’s a good manager and the right man. Totally respect your opinion though!

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

That is an exaggeration. Nobody wants to go out of the league, of course, but it wouldn’t be the end of the football club.

On what basis ? A 22,000 seater stadium, with 220 supporters in it ?

 

[MisterStubbs]

In hindsight, could we have done with a Sturrock type manager with a little book of contacts who want to come and play for him? Absolutely. But we are where we are and very few people thought MM was a bad appointment.

He doesn’t have a book of contacts like Sturrock, so he’s had to contend with our reputation being on the floor and no one wanting to come here. People criticise him like he was blissfully unaware that we needed a goal scorer in January. He obviously knew and obviously tried his bollocks off to get someone in. But I highly doubt there was a queue of agents and great goal scorers lining up to join our relegation battle given our well publicised struggles off the pitch.

I’m not suggesting he should be kept on just because he knows the leagues. I think he’s a good manager and the right man. Totally respect your opinion though!

I was one of the few it would seem who was a bit spectacle of his appointment. I was eager to see how it would pan out but I was very much in favour of bringing in someone with more league experience at least. That's not to say of course that they wouldn't have struggled.

Where I have sympathy with MM is that behind the scenes this football club is somewhat on it's knees. His job can't have been made any easier for it and I actually have huge respect for him for leaving a very safe job at Weymouth to come to this club in the situation it is.

 

[amsemp]

That's a scenario which I haven't thought yet of cause I'm just so frustrated. Christ, it's depressing ain't it?

I just think it's a bit of lose-lose situation if we keep MM despite going down. It will always hang over him. He has huge doubters now including me and nothing wholly substantial has actually happened yet.

If he becomes the man who relegates us into non-league (rightly or wrongly, bad hand/not his fault etc) it will never leave him. If he lost just a standard game the claws would come out so fast cause of the confirmation bias in our heads.

I pray, I really do pray he keeps us up and I look a mug. The only time I am prepared and willing to look a stupid football fan.

It really is unfortunately mate! It’s just an impossible situation to know what’s best. But I do agree, if he’s the manager that is at the helm when we cease being a league club, history will remember him for all the wrong reasons.

I think there’s a lot of people happy to be proven wrong right now. If we sack MM next week and the new manager keeps us up, I’ll happily look like an idiot!

 

[Chairman Trigg]

We started at the right tempo but yet again its glaring where our problems are and home form will cost us dearly.After the embargo fiasco It's just the Jan transfer that really grates .....we all knew we needed strikers and yet MM seemed more interested in other positions.Again we don't know how heavily Ron was involved with the transfer targets ....was Nile really wanted by MM as an example?
Making a comparison with the last time Ron tried to sink the club ,Luggy knew what this division was like and what was needed to survive and had the contacts and player knowledge.....this time Ron knew better and chose a untried novice in league football.
We are now left with a premier league size backroom staff with the prospect of the best 3 sided stadium in the NL ......great times to be a blues fan.
Could we find another Steve Thompson to perform a miracle at this late stage .Could someone actually motivate and drastically change our system and style of play at this late stage....Time is running out

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

On what basis ? A 22,000 seater stadium, with 220 supporters in it ?

Blimey. You think that many would **** off? Outnumbered in our own stadium by Col Ewe, I think I’d do one myself if that happened.

 

[blueblueblue]

I think the lack of comments on this post match thread says a lot, people are sick and tired now and can't be arsed.

 

[sufc4life21]

I think the lack of comments on this post match thread says a lot, people are sick and tired now and can't be arsed.

Got to that stage. I would say sack MM and try the new manager bounce but not sure if it would work with us.....

 

[Gorgy21]

its a challenge ... but one a talented manager could overcome

I think we should have gone for a striker when he bought in Sterling, Halford and the guy from Crawley, it was plain to see after three games that Goodship and Acquah were not up to it, and it look so long before Ranger came in even though it did not work out. There are many players out of contract who could have a done a better job than the strikers we have, think it is to late now.

 

[CanveyCastle]

Look on the bright side, relegation will mean non-league but at least will have a non-league manager in place.