Question Should we stick with Phil Brown?

[graingerroad54]

I believe pb doesn't yet know what he's going to do about staying. His ego will tell him not to stay but the fact is his opportunities in football here have more or less disappeared completely. This may be a factor in staying. No one wants him. Swindon - a month. India not long.... And lots of time out.
He's the best mate\bloke\manager in the world when winning, and the biggest pain in the butt you could wish for when losin g. And before people say 'isn't that what you want in a manager', it's at these times he starts the favourites stuff and stops any motivation. MM stayed 'up' and motivational for the players no matter what the circumstances. PB will simply stay a bear with a thorn in its side until a draw or win. Motivation stops and the players learn the only way to put a stop to his demeanor is conjure a win. It usually ends in splitting the camp and player power taking over -forcing the tactics or using different tactics , going against him etc. It's been seen wherever he's been including here.
Having said all that, when it's going well, he's amongst the best there is for players in those situations.
He is what he is, old school into the channels with varying degrees of physicality.
He might be ideal with a whole squad of fit seasoned pro's but a rebuilt non league squad..... I'm doubtful.
I've a feeling if he wants to stay RM will keep him. It will then have a knock on affect who gets new offers from existing players or recruited from lower leagues.
The saying that ' anyone can manage when things are going well.....it's when things aren't that you find out who the best managers are' ..... Is so very true
I just hope we survive in non league and stop the decline. That would be a realistic first season for me. Make it somewhere players want to come and play.

Great analysis ITK! Now lets get Steve Evans as his no2 and we will have the perfect set up!

 

[bluesfansince1952]

I really doubted whether PB was a going to be any kind of short term solution, let alone a long term one. I suppose there is still time for me to be proved wrong, and, I hope I can be although it is not looking very likely.
However, in truth I doubt if it matters who manages be it Phil Brown, or, someone more or less qualified. No organisation can be successful without having competent administration in place. Forget winning matches; try paying all of our employees on time (playing and non playing staff) avoiding transfer embargoes and not defaulting on your tax payments for a start. If it looks like Micky Mouse it probably is, and, I have been one of many foolish enough to delude myself that we could somehow succeed on the field while we were a shambles off it.
So far Ron has always eventually found the money, and, for that, at least, we should be thankful. Was I the only one who was resigned to us doing 'a Macclesfield' late last year?
Unfortunately, each time the money is found to keep us going (seemingly against all odds) it comes at a cost. This process which has repeated all too often in the past few years is self destructive. So far the funds have always been found to keep us going, but. only at the cost of our standing as a credible commercial (and footballing) entity which continues to diminish.
Presumably there is a reason for Southend's erratic financial standing. Logic would dictate that Ron does not always have the funds available to support the enterprise.
If going forward we could be sure that the money would be in place for Southend to function as a proper business I suspect it might not much matter who was in charge. Regardless of the abilities of either MM or Phil Brown both would have a much better chance of success if they were backed by efficient administration and credible financial management.
By credible financial management I do not mean that we have to be able to pay for expensive players but that we are able to support what ever liabilities we might enter into. To use a cliche we are going have to cut our suit to fit our cloth, especially if we do find ourselves in the National League.
The club has no assets and is in debt to RM for at least 15 million. Who would, or, could buy it even if Ron was willing to sell? And if I were him why should I sell to any so called 'investors', or, potential new ownership and not be repaid.
I have reached the conclusion that it is irrelevant who manages. We should be demanding that regardless of whether we stay up, or, are relegated, our finances are in sufficient order to pay our employees, creditors and tax man throughout the coming season. I suggest that only when we are credible off the pitch can we be hope to be successful on it.
Then, and only then, can Phil Brown, or whoever else, hope to lift us out of our present predicament.
Can Ron be made to see it this way?

 

[Ricky Otto]

He had a good run last time, I like the guy but we should never have brought him back. Ron was correct when he talked about short termism and how we needed to build again, which is why sacking Molesley when he we had seen improvement was stupidity IMO and this was when I finally lost all faith in Ron. It was highly likely we were going down and I think Molesley could have continued his build and made us competitive. I'm sure we will be looking at a complete reshuffle with PB and probably anyone else. I don't think PB is the man for this job or the long term. It's an awful mess and we need to get it sorted early, we need to know who is leading this club next season before this season finishes.

 

[Joolz]

I've recently voted yes, but if he keeps spouting the same crap as he has been recently I may well change my mind.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

He had a good run last time, I like the guy but we should never have brought him back. Ron was correct when he talked about short termism and how we needed to build again, which is why sacking Molesley when he we had seen improvement was stupidity IMO and this was when I finally lost all faith in Ron. It was highly likely we were going down and I think Molesley could have continued his build and made us competitive. I'm sure we will be looking at a complete reshuffle with PB and probably anyone else. I don't think PB is the man for this job or the long term. It's an awful mess and we need to get it sorted early, we need to know who is leading this club next season before this season finishes.

My feelings totally

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

It's all really a terrible mess. Given the choice of PB or MM in the National League I would've prefered the latter, even allowing for his sometime bizarre selections and substitutions. There are issues with PB which have been well aired on the Zone and as far as I know he has no experience at that level of football. I could strangely have understood the logic of bringing him back at the start of this season but not now. I'm always one for looking forwards, not backwards. PB is a yesterday man and it risks ending in even more tears; don't know who's for tomorrow? I did suggest a number of possible managerial names on an earlier thread but would anyone of any standing want to come until the future of the club is on a more solid footing? As I said, it's a terrible mess.

 

[sunnydays66]

I think they could have. Don't get me wrong we've not been good enough this season and I'm not advocating that. However even in this late part of the season it's been down to fine margins. Akinola slots the penalty in, Oxley tips the ball over against Bolton and we'd still be fighting for survival right now. An extra addition even with just 3-5 goals could have made a difference.

And hitting the posts or bar!

 

[Chrisb]

I think they could have. Don't get me wrong we've not been good enough this season and I'm not advocating that. However even in this late part of the season it's been down to fine margins. Akinola slots the penalty in, Oxley tips the ball over against Bolton and we'd still be fighting for survival right now. An extra addition even with just 3-5 goals could have made a difference.

Yes, had those things panned out differently we would be in a better position but all teams could probably point to similar things.

 

[Bay Shrimper]

I think the time has come to get in people who actually care about Southend United, people who live, breathe and sweat the Blues.
Surely Adam Barrett must feel our pain, as must Tilly. I for one would welcome that duo, if it were possible, to drag us back into the football league. People who actually give a f**k about the club. Oh and Mr. Fagan also as he's still here and there must be a reason why he's stuck around. Get some passion back in the players.

 

[LBBlue]

I've recently voted yes, but if he keeps spouting the same crap as he has been recently I may well change my mind.

He will always spout the same crap - he can’t help himself. His ego won’t allow it. It’s all about him.

 

[dannypav]

He had a good run last time, I like the guy but we should never have brought him back. Ron was correct when he talked about short termism and how we needed to build again, which is why sacking Molesley when he we had seen improvement was stupidity IMO and this was when I finally lost all faith in Ron. It was highly likely we were going down and I think Molesley could have continued his build and made us competitive. I'm sure we will be looking at a complete reshuffle with PB and probably anyone else. I don't think PB is the man for this job or the long term. It's an awful mess and we need to get it sorted early, we need to know who is leading this club next season before this season finishes.

exactly this

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

whatever we do we must do it quickly. Appoint the manager now. He needs to recruit, retain or get rid now. Preseason training (tough) needs to be set up. All players need regular contact preseason to make sure they are mentally fit and keeping fit. If we leave it all to the last minute like this season we are well and truly ****ed before we've started.

 

[KevinJH]

I voted 'no' as whatever waffle he spouts, he simply comes across as a closet Del Boy character. And don't forget, when Allardyce got the England manager's job, who was jumping up and down saying 'pick me, pick me' to join his coaching staff and leave us in the lurch ? He might be happy at the moment working under our narcissistic owner but just don't think he's the person to take us forward.

 

[rigsby]

I voted 'no' as whatever waffle he spouts, he simply comes across as a closet Del Boy character. And don't forget, when Allardyce got the England manager's job, who was jumping up and down saying 'pick me, pick me' to join his coaching staff and leave us in the lurch ? He might be happy at the moment working under our narcissistic owner but just don't think he's the person to take us forward.

Do you really think that PB would have to ask big Sam via the evening Echo?

If PB wasn't daft enough to turn down £600,000 a year to be the Sunderland assistant under SA, then he may well have gone with him as part of the England set up.

The truth is often funnier than the myth.

 

[jackj13]

I voted 'no' as whatever waffle he spouts, he simply comes across as a closet Del Boy character. And don't forget, when Allardyce got the England manager's job, who was jumping up and down saying 'pick me, pick me' to join his coaching staff and leave us in the lurch ? He might be happy at the moment working under our narcissistic owner but just don't think he's the person to take us forward.

Ah yes the same PB that turned down other roles to stay with us. Don't get me wrong i'm not sure he's the man for us in non-league but let's not make out he tried to jump ship the first time round when he clearly didn't.

 

[leeblue]

No way

 

[KevinJH]

I absolutely take your point, J but if SA hadn't been caught taking a back-hander it seemed pretty clear PB was happy to drop us and get back working with him. Guess we'll never know now but at the time it certainly brought his commitment to the club into question. Water under the bridge now of course but just left a bit of an after-taste.....

 

[kentblues]

It seems to me there is a real risk of fantasy getting in the way of reality with a result that time is wasted and we jeopardise next season.

I have kept out of all the threads relating to Stan. I have no doubt he has great passion for the club and his motives are good. But the distraction of believing the club ownership will change anytime soon is potentially as damaging as it is unreal for the reasons I have stated before (timing being the overwhelming factor).

This thread is the key one because the critical matter at hand and for now is the management team for next season. We are unlikely to attract Brendan Rogers, Klopp et al. Our available options will be limited, and existing NL managers are managing at that level for a reason. We can go again for the “young one for the future” but can we afford that risk or what whilst they become the one for now..

Probably the most likely way we will get a better manager than our league position and reputation deserves, is to find someone with an additional reason to be here.

Phil Brown without doubt won’t want to manage in the NL but will likely do so with us do to his history with the club and family connections to the area. Also he has promoted Ricky Duncan and Craig Fagan to his assistant manager and first team coach, further ensuring the involvement of people with a longer term connection to the club and who are well regarded.

This is the start point and as a NL club the real question is can we really find a better, more experienced, proven management team to take us forward both next year and hopefully back into L2?

And quickly? Not July, not August. We have to be planning to hit the ground running and getting next year right now. We need to be working on recruitment now.

For me I would keep the current team.

 

[southendkid]

PB does have an ego but given our reputation is so bad at the moment we need someone with contacts that will be able to convince agents that their players should come to us, I don't think the lack of good signings were MM's fault but I do think the fact no one knew he was meant that there was little reason for good players to want to come to a club well known to be a financial mess. We need someone well known in the game to convince players to give us a chance despite our reputation, I can't think of anyone like that except Brown that would be willing to manage us.

 

[fleabag1]

Stick with Phil brown you know what your getting. And he will get us some decent league players and hopefully near top of conference or whatever its called