Alleged Racism at Woking game

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Actually the mods have done the right thing by keeping it open. We have had first hand accounts and a clearer picture that there is fact nothing clear about this allegation.

No one is claiming we are perfect but even going back to the 70's we have always been a lot better than most other clubs. How many clubs had a muslim as one of their top boys back then? For those that know him he is still a top lad.

Some clubs wouldn't sign black players or the fans wouldn't clap their own black player if he scored. Pick an all time Southend best 11 and many slots are up for debate. Apart from Chris Powell and Stan. They start in anyones 11. If you never see them play ask your parents or grandparents.

I remember Ian Benjamin rocking up in the stand for an away game a few years back. The genuine warmth and smiles on peoples faces was a joy to witness.

Did Woking p*** me off...Absolutely but like 99% of you lot my target was the Woking shirt not the colour of anyones skin. Equally we aren't triggered by the words cage, ponce or pink. We know who and what we are and we don't feel the need to virtue signal at every opportunity.

I saw him at R.W.s party a couple of years ago. He still looks the same, just older. Whereas other North Bankers like me have bloated out a bit. We talked of the old days of course and the many adventures. If you're interested rigsby as to why he stopped going, I can tell you in a pm.

 

[Tribal Chief]

Surely the only context here is that a Woking player acted like a tit and our fans responded in kind. The player happened to be black. Silly question, but does that give him immunity from criticism?

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

At thread #342, things have morphed from being an alleged racist comment to a comment first heard by a white Woking player and passed to his black team-mate.
I fail to see how this dilutes the intent of the comment if it was aimed at the black player?
There are a lot of Zoners now convinced this wasn't aimed at the black player, but without definitive evidence.
Have asked this already, but was there anyone within 10 yards of the guy (?) who shouted the comment?
And therefore can they comment?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

At thread #342, things have morphed from being an alleged racist comment to a comment first heard by a white Woking player and passed to his black team-mate.
I fail to see how this dilutes the intent of the comment if it was aimed at the black player?
There are a lot of Zoners now convinced this wasn't aimed at the black player, but without definitive evidence.
Have asked this already, but was there anyone within 10 yards of the guy (?) who shouted the comment?
And therefore can they comment?

Where is the evidence is was A. aimed at the black player and B. a racist comment

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Where is the evidence is was A. aimed at the black player and B. a racist comment

Exactly!
There is no evidence either way about who the comment was aimed at.
One way to find out whether a black person would like being told to get back in his cage is to ask them.
I did that today to four friends who are black and of colour; light skinned in one case - and they were not impressed.
'What? You mean like coming out of the jungle sort of thing" said one.

 

[Danshrimper]

Exactly!
There is no evidence either way about who the comment was aimed at.
One way to find out whether a black person would like being told to get back in his cage is to ask them.
I did that today to four friends who are black and of colour; light skinned in one case - and they were not impressed.
'What? You mean like coming out of the jungle sort of thing" said one.

And there never will be any evidence either way. Because only the person who said the comment knows who it was aimed at and in what context it was said.

However, you can use common sense to deduce that the comment most likely related to multiple Woking players acting like animals a couple of minutes prior, rather than a reference to race or a ‘coming out of the jungle sort of thing’.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

And there never will be any evidence either way. Because only the person who said the comment knows who it was aimed at and in what context it was said.

However, you can use common sense to deduce that the comment most likely related to multiple Woking players acting like animals a couple of minutes prior, rather than a reference to race or a ‘coming out of the jungle sort of thing’.

Agreed!
As you say, we may never know. But it was unfortunate there was a black player amongst the Woking players.
In addition, everyone seems agreed it was 'get back in your cage' - as in one cage, and one player.
It's the one player it was aimed at is the crux of the matter.

 

[choggy]

18 pages of comments says something about our attitude towards racism in the modern era.

When I started supporting Southend as a kid in the mid 80's, racism in the stands at Roots Hall was fair game. Any black winger playing for the oppo on the wing would be greeted by the West Stand with gorilla hoots, cries of 'Go back to your own country', and similar racist insults.

But this isn't the 1980's, it's 2022. And if a SUFC supporter told a black oppo player to 'Get back in your cage', then he is no fan of this club and should be banned for life.

There any plenty of ways of winding up the oppo without resorting to racism.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Exactly!
There is no evidence either way about who the comment was aimed at.
One way to find out whether a black person would like being told to get back in his cage is to ask them.
I did that today to four friends who are black and of colour; light skinned in one case - and they were not impressed.
'What? You mean like coming out of the jungle sort of thing" said one.

Again, why are you making it about a black person?

In your scenario,, did you make the stipulation that your black friends had just been involved in a bit of a fight, acting like an animal before you told them to get back in their cage? Of course you didn't. You asked them something out of context.

 

[blueblueblue]

Agreed!
As you say, we may never know. But it was unfortunate there was a black player amongst the Woking players.
In addition, everyone seems agreed it was 'get back in your cage' - as in one cage, and one player.
It's the one player it was aimed at is the crux of the matter

You agree, then don't agree.

Move on mate.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

18 pages of comments says something about our attitude towards racism in the modern era.

When I started supporting Southend as a kid in the mid 80's, racism in the stands at Roots Hall was fair game. Any black winger playing for the oppo on the wing would be greeted by the West Stand with gorilla hoots, cries of 'Go back to your own country', and similar racist insults.

But this isn't the 1980's, it's 2022. And if a SUFC supporter told a black oppo player to 'Get back in your cage', then he is no fan of this club and should be banned for life.

There any plenty of ways of winding up the oppo without resorting to racism.

'IF'. You need to go back and read all the posts of people who witnessed the alleged incident and the context it was made in. A bunch of lads fighting like animals. A comment of 'get back in your cage' aimed at both black and white players. Please don't make it something it isn't

 

[Kat_r]

I’m sorry that the guy was offended, I deplore racism in any way shape or form, but the racist card is played far to easily these days. I would hate for us to slip back to the banana throwing days, and monkey chants, but I honestly think this is an unfortunate comment misinterpreted.

agreed. Did the Woking players say anything abusive to our fans? should report them.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

but even going back to the 70's we have always been a lot better than most other clubs. How many clubs had a muslim as one of their top boys back then? For those that know him he is still a top lad.

His brothers ( who also used to come to games ) son is a good mate of my eldest son, & they still keep in touch.

 

[Supershrimper]

At thread #342, things have morphed from being an alleged racist comment to a comment first heard by a white Woking player and passed to his black team-mate.
I fail to see how this dilutes the intent of the comment if it was aimed at the black player?
There are a lot of Zoners now convinced this wasn't aimed at the black player, but without definitive evidence.
Have asked this already, but was there anyone within 10 yards of the guy (?) who shouted the comment?
And therefore can they comment?

I've already commented. The guy sits on my row and is 5/6 seats away.

As the players were making their way back from clapping their fans in the North the Woking players started getting stick from the East (More so than usual given the melee)

As they come closer to their subs bench a few of the Woking players started to goad the East. Things such as cupping their ears, making 1-1 signs with their hands, responding back to the East verbally (unable to confirm what they said)

The guy shouts to them the much discussed phrase Get back in your cages.

At no point that I heard did the gentleman single out a particular player and aim the comment at them. The comment was aimed at all of them for what had gone on the pitch (and slightly off it) The one that took the most offense was the 8 who looked like he was wound as tight as a spring ready to go off.

If I'm honest I thought that the reaction of the 8 someone had said something personally about him directly the way he was kicking off. No other Woking players reacted in the same way.

 

[choggy]

'IF'. You need to go back and read all the posts of people who witnessed the alleged incident and the context it was made in. A bunch of lads fighting like animals. A comment of 'get back in your cage' aimed at both black and white players. Please don't make it something it isn't

18 pages of comments about something that you say 'Please don't make it something it isn't'. The damage has already been done.

 

[Kat_r]

So I was in the front row where it kicked off and the Woking no 6 clearly directed the word c##ts towards the Southend fans.

As its a sexually expletive word derived to describe a female body part can it not be claimed he was using inappropriate sexist language?? Surely any female in that area who heard that could have been offended .....

That's how far accusations are going now just to screw over your opposite....

Certainly if racism was used and meant, its unacceptable, though I'm not convinced what was said was meant in that way as much as the example I've given. However, what is disappointing is that the thuggish behaviour of the Woking players has been completely overlooked. They started the brawl, had a number of aggressors including the manager, and only got a couple of yellows for it which is a disgrace. No further action taken I doubt by the FA ....

Seems fans are being judged Morley strictly than players. No equality there.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

18 pages of comments about something that you say 'Please don't make it something it isn't'. The damage has already been done.

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Again, why are you making it about a black person?

In your scenario,, did you make the stipulation that your black friends had just been involved in a bit of a fight, acting like an animal before you told them to get back in their cage? Of course you didn't. You asked them something out of context.

I explained the reason for the question, of course.
Do you seriously think I wouldn't add the context?
i also explained the circumstances, and when you say: 'of course you didn't' - why wasn't I surprised?
You're telling me what I did before you knew.
You could have ended your point at the end of the third last sentence, but that would spoil the narrative perhaps?
Even in Tuesday's heated scenario, a black person might not like being told to get back in his cage.
Now, whether it was directed at him or others, or everyone, is now in its 18th web page of debate.
It started with a great deal of concern at the incident(s), and has now become something akin to 'prove it'.
I await the official reports, as I'm sure you do.

 

[Shrimptastic]

I've already commented. The guy sits on my row and is 5/6 seats away.

As the players were making their way back from clapping their fans in the North the Woking players started getting stick from the East (More so than usual given the melee)

As they come closer to their subs bench a few of the Woking players started to goad the East. Things such as cupping their ears, making 1-1 signs with their hands, responding back to the East verbally (unable to confirm what they said)

The guy shouts to them the much discussed phrase Get back in your cages.

At no point that I heard did the gentleman single out a particular player and aim the comment at them. The comment was aimed at all of them for what had gone on the pitch (and slightly off it) The one that took the most offense was the 8 who looked like he was wound as tight as a spring ready to go off.

If I'm honest I thought that the reaction of the 8 someone had said something personally about him directly the way he was kicking off. No other Woking players reacted in the same way

Exactly as I saw it 100%
Same as you
Probably seated in the same area and if anything was aimed at the number 8 who was kicking off and goading the crowd, the same player that did so after they scored (which is fair enuff)
And I also said this earlier like yourself so I think he’s only reading the posts he wants to read !
A form of ignorance

The shout of ‘get back in your cage’ seemed almost certainly directed mainly at him, the 8, certainly if not to their players involved collectively
Black or white irrelevant
Does anyone have 100% proof ?
Of course not
But do you have any proof it was meant racially…..no of course you don’t and personally I associate cages with animals not black people and I think if YOU do there’s something seriously warped with your mind

Personally I’d stop giving this idiot who is surely on a wind up the satisfaction of replying to his utter drivel

The most ignorant person on the thread blindly screaming ‘racism’ when he wasn’t even there
Just stop feeding his fire.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I explained the reason for the question, of course.
Do you seriously think I wouldn't add the context?
i also explained the circumstances, and when you say: 'of course you didn't' - why wasn't I surprised?
You're telling me what I did before you knew.
You could have ended your point at the end of the third last sentence, but that would spoil the narrative perhaps?
Even in Tuesday's heated scenario, a black person might not like being told to get back in his cage.
Now, whether it was directed at him or others, or everyone, is now in its 18th web page of debate.
It started with a great deal of concern at the incident(s), and has now become something akin to 'prove it'.
I await the official reports, as I'm sure you do.

Honestly, I don't believe for one minute you went up to X number of black friends and asked them anyway, context or no context.

Firstly, I don't see what value it adds. Secondly, even if you did, it proves diddly squat.