canveyshrimper
R.I.P
England win the toss and bat.
52/0 off 13 overs.
52/0 off 13 overs.
-
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3rd Test v Palistan
- Thread starter canveyshrimper
- Start date
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- Tags
- toss
Bluesmanager
I'm a Barbie Girl
67-2 now.
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
109/2. Plenty of luck for England with two very bad decisions apparently.
Both Cook and Pietersen scoring at quite a rate. Intriguing start.
Both Cook and Pietersen scoring at quite a rate. Intriguing start.
C C Csiders
Life President
110/3 at lunch - not quite the start we would have been looking for. I suspect that this could be a low-scoring match though, and anywhere just over 300 could be a good 1st innings total.
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
Pietersen has other ideas mind. Seems like he wants to explode but knows the sense behind playing sensibly on day one. Bear in mind also that Collingwood and Bell are both on excellent form, something I doubt many of us expected to say or hear a few months ago. Beyond Bell, probably not much but it will be a good test for Read if he comes in with some runs on the board to see if he can score in the position that Jones, unfortunately, has failed to capitalise on recently.
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
224/4 at Tea.
Pietersen looking in good nick on 82 not out.
Pietersen looking in good nick on 82 not out.
Hong Kong Blue
Guest
Well done KP Nuts.
Apparently ever England batsman to have reached 50 this series has turned it into a ton.
Apparently ever England batsman to have reached 50 this series has turned it into a ton.
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
Indeed a ton for KP but unfortunately he's retired hurt from suspsected cramp. As long as nothing goes seriously wrong today, next man in could be Pietersen resuming on 104!
Read seems to have made a confident start. Touch wood.
Read seems to have made a confident start. Touch wood.
Bluesmanager
I'm a Barbie Girl
300-4. Read on 20, that's probably more than Jones at any stage in this series. Looks like another good wicket for batting, just hope we can knock them over cheap again.
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
Positive stuff from England after the hammering they took yesterday. Looks like they want to get a total up as quickly as possible. I like the attacking intent, particularly from Strauss who seems to be leading by example.
sufcintheprem
This is a modified caption
and then Pietersen gets out
Bluesmanager
I'm a Barbie Girl
190-1 to 258-5. Oh dear.
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
299/6 - Collingwood just played on.
Lead of 276 with about 18 overs left today.
Lead of 276 with about 18 overs left today.
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
Well, a staggering performance in the field from England - Pakistan were 155 all out before tea, so England have wrapped up a 167-run victory and taken an unassailable 2-0 lead in the series.
Simply brilliant, and a huge performance in particular from Monty Panesar and Saj Mahmood today, and Strauss yesterday. Big mention for Chris Read, whose glove-work was as good as advertised (two catches, one really difficult according to Cricinfo, and a stumping in the second innings alone) but who also crucially tucked in with the bat in a big way. GO Jones has going to have to go some to get back into the side, what with the reservations about his glove-work.
I reckon Read & Panesar can already get their orders of sun-cream in for Christmas, and Mahmood should make sure his passport is up to date. It's also very nice to be compensating for a disappointing Test Series and a truly diabolical one-day series against the Lankans by wrapping up a series win against Pakistan - something which cannot be taken for granted at all. Then again, perhaps we underestimated the Lankans - they've just chased down 359 in the fourth innings (the sixth highest chase in Test history) to win the second test against South Africa by one wicket and seal a 2-0 series win. 359/9- that must have been some innings to watch!
Suddenly, we're two up with one to play against Pakistan and - perhaps - thinking of this winter. Here's the dream-team (if all injuries miraculously heal):
Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan ©
Pietersen
Cook
Flintoff
Read (wk)
Hoggard
Harmison
Mahmood
Panesar
I think Cook just edges it for me over Bell... there's something about Cook's unflappable nature that earmarks him for a massive future in Test cricket. It's staggering to think he's only 21 - he is going to be an England colossus, I have no doubt. He already enjoys a Test average of almost 60... not bad, given he already has 12 innings under his belt. I hope that's not just my Essex bias talking there, though!
If Vaughan isn't fit, then move Cook up to 3, Freddy up to 5 and Bell in at 6, where he's had a superb summer - it's somehow as if the shackles are off, and he just plays his natural game.
If Freddy isn't fit, we've got problems. Big, big problems. Difficult to know what to suggest - whoever you bring in is going to be sloppy seconds, in a sense. I can't really see who is the natural replacement, bowling-wise. Jon Lewis? Not for me. I imagine Plunkett will get the nod - indeed, he may get the nod over Saj Mahmood. I'm not sure about that. Plunkett's height would tend to suggest that there would be plenty for him to extract out of most Australian pitches bar the SCG (a traditional bunsen); however, as Tait proved last summer and as Lee proved in his early career, there's no substitute for raw pace, so I'd be inclined to go with Mahmood first, and Plunkett only if Freddy is injured.
Of course, that would require Read to move up to six and Bell up to five, placing even more pressure on them... but there are plenty of runs in that top 5, for sure.
One final conundrum... what happens if the King of Spain is fit? I have to say that, as things stand, I'd stick with Panesar, who is a genuine match-winner with the ball. Gile-o ties down an end, is an important squad member, score important runs... but has he ever won a match with his bowling? Panesar has only been in the side for three series, and yet he has turned games already with his bowling against the sub-continentals, supposedly the arch-players of spin. He's had Inzy as his bloomin' bunny - at Headingley - one of the least spin-friendly grounds in the country. Perhaps I'm getting caught up in the hype, but I rather suspect that Giles has lost his test place for a very long time indeed, if not permanently.
So, my injury-hit XI is..... and the "Freddy's Fit!" XI is…
Trescothick Trescothick
Strauss © Strauss ©
Cook Cook
Pietersen Pietersen
Bell Flintoff
Read (wk) Bell
Plunkett Read (wk)
Hoggard Hoggard
Harmison Harmison
Mahmood Mahmood
Panesar Panesar
12th man: Collingwood
Note - the captain for the latter XI is deliberate. Freddy has enough on his plate, and I think Fletcher has missed a trick by not rewarding Strauss with the captaincy for this winter - the current situation creates unneccessary confusion.
Incidentally, I think the Freddy's Fit XI has just as good a chance as the "injury free XI" of retaining the Ashes (in that, in effect, we've only swapped Cook for Vaughan - which says a lot about how good Cook is)... but without Freddy, I'm bound to say that I think we'll struggle.
Come on England!
Matt
Simply brilliant, and a huge performance in particular from Monty Panesar and Saj Mahmood today, and Strauss yesterday. Big mention for Chris Read, whose glove-work was as good as advertised (two catches, one really difficult according to Cricinfo, and a stumping in the second innings alone) but who also crucially tucked in with the bat in a big way. GO Jones has going to have to go some to get back into the side, what with the reservations about his glove-work.
I reckon Read & Panesar can already get their orders of sun-cream in for Christmas, and Mahmood should make sure his passport is up to date. It's also very nice to be compensating for a disappointing Test Series and a truly diabolical one-day series against the Lankans by wrapping up a series win against Pakistan - something which cannot be taken for granted at all. Then again, perhaps we underestimated the Lankans - they've just chased down 359 in the fourth innings (the sixth highest chase in Test history) to win the second test against South Africa by one wicket and seal a 2-0 series win. 359/9- that must have been some innings to watch!
Suddenly, we're two up with one to play against Pakistan and - perhaps - thinking of this winter. Here's the dream-team (if all injuries miraculously heal):
Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan ©
Pietersen
Cook
Flintoff
Read (wk)
Hoggard
Harmison
Mahmood
Panesar
I think Cook just edges it for me over Bell... there's something about Cook's unflappable nature that earmarks him for a massive future in Test cricket. It's staggering to think he's only 21 - he is going to be an England colossus, I have no doubt. He already enjoys a Test average of almost 60... not bad, given he already has 12 innings under his belt. I hope that's not just my Essex bias talking there, though!
If Vaughan isn't fit, then move Cook up to 3, Freddy up to 5 and Bell in at 6, where he's had a superb summer - it's somehow as if the shackles are off, and he just plays his natural game.
If Freddy isn't fit, we've got problems. Big, big problems. Difficult to know what to suggest - whoever you bring in is going to be sloppy seconds, in a sense. I can't really see who is the natural replacement, bowling-wise. Jon Lewis? Not for me. I imagine Plunkett will get the nod - indeed, he may get the nod over Saj Mahmood. I'm not sure about that. Plunkett's height would tend to suggest that there would be plenty for him to extract out of most Australian pitches bar the SCG (a traditional bunsen); however, as Tait proved last summer and as Lee proved in his early career, there's no substitute for raw pace, so I'd be inclined to go with Mahmood first, and Plunkett only if Freddy is injured.
Of course, that would require Read to move up to six and Bell up to five, placing even more pressure on them... but there are plenty of runs in that top 5, for sure.
One final conundrum... what happens if the King of Spain is fit? I have to say that, as things stand, I'd stick with Panesar, who is a genuine match-winner with the ball. Gile-o ties down an end, is an important squad member, score important runs... but has he ever won a match with his bowling? Panesar has only been in the side for three series, and yet he has turned games already with his bowling against the sub-continentals, supposedly the arch-players of spin. He's had Inzy as his bloomin' bunny - at Headingley - one of the least spin-friendly grounds in the country. Perhaps I'm getting caught up in the hype, but I rather suspect that Giles has lost his test place for a very long time indeed, if not permanently.
So, my injury-hit XI is..... and the "Freddy's Fit!" XI is…
Trescothick Trescothick
Strauss © Strauss ©
Cook Cook
Pietersen Pietersen
Bell Flintoff
Read (wk) Bell
Plunkett Read (wk)
Hoggard Hoggard
Harmison Harmison
Mahmood Mahmood
Panesar Panesar
12th man: Collingwood
Note - the captain for the latter XI is deliberate. Freddy has enough on his plate, and I think Fletcher has missed a trick by not rewarding Strauss with the captaincy for this winter - the current situation creates unneccessary confusion.
Incidentally, I think the Freddy's Fit XI has just as good a chance as the "injury free XI" of retaining the Ashes (in that, in effect, we've only swapped Cook for Vaughan - which says a lot about how good Cook is)... but without Freddy, I'm bound to say that I think we'll struggle.
Come on England!
Matt
The Flying Scotsman
Gaffer
Seems a bit harsh on the 2nd highest England run scorer this year, especially in your injury-hit team. I would take out Plunkett for Collingwood.
In Freddy XI, I would be probably drop Mahmood for Collingwood as well. Our bowling attack would be Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard & Panesar, with Collingwood and Pieterson able to throw down a few. This bowling attack would threaten any batting line up, and gives us a decent batting line up and not such a long tail, with Chris Read coming in at 8.
In Freddy XI, I would be probably drop Mahmood for Collingwood as well. Our bowling attack would be Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard & Panesar, with Collingwood and Pieterson able to throw down a few. This bowling attack would threaten any batting line up, and gives us a decent batting line up and not such a long tail, with Chris Read coming in at 8.
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
Oddly if you replace Bell, Collingwood or Cook, with Flintoff on paper it actually makes our batting weaker.
Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, Collingwood, Pietersen, Bell & Vaughan all average well over 40 in Tests, with Vaughan I think the only one under 45. Even if I go back to the halcyon days of May, Cowdrey, Graveney, Barrington, Dexter, Sir Geoffrey et al can I ever remember an English top 6 with such a high average.
Freddy has an average of something like 30. Therefore there is a case to drop Flintoff to 7 with Read/Jones at 8, and play only 4 regular bowlers, however this will put a big strain on Flintoff, when he is expected to bat, field at slip and probably captain the side against the convicts. Therefore one of the existing top 6 will have to make way for Freddy, so that England can play 5 bowlers, but with a weaker tail.
If Ashley Giles is fit he should go to Oz, but as a back up to Panesar, and he may possibly get a game at Sydney. I would also go for Stuart Broad over Plunkett, and would like to see him called up for the final test at the Oval. England have won the series so an experiment will do no harm.
As good a bowler as Jon Lewis is he will get nothing out of the Aussie pitches, but saying that their pitches are harder and bouncier than their English counterparts appears to be wrong now. According to Tom Moody the WACA at Perth is flat as a witches tit these days. The SCG is always a bunsen, with probably the Gabba having the truest surface. Both the MCG and Adelaide Oval are good for batting and normally full of runs.
The England selectors have an interesting dilemma ahead of them for the winter, and I would say that the eleven who finished today are nailed on, plus IMO and subject to fitness Flintoff, G. Jones, Broad, Giles, Plunkett & one young batsman for experience.
I think we have a team to beat Australia on their own soil and retain the Ashes.
All we need to do is find a one day side!!
Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, Collingwood, Pietersen, Bell & Vaughan all average well over 40 in Tests, with Vaughan I think the only one under 45. Even if I go back to the halcyon days of May, Cowdrey, Graveney, Barrington, Dexter, Sir Geoffrey et al can I ever remember an English top 6 with such a high average.
Freddy has an average of something like 30. Therefore there is a case to drop Flintoff to 7 with Read/Jones at 8, and play only 4 regular bowlers, however this will put a big strain on Flintoff, when he is expected to bat, field at slip and probably captain the side against the convicts. Therefore one of the existing top 6 will have to make way for Freddy, so that England can play 5 bowlers, but with a weaker tail.
If Ashley Giles is fit he should go to Oz, but as a back up to Panesar, and he may possibly get a game at Sydney. I would also go for Stuart Broad over Plunkett, and would like to see him called up for the final test at the Oval. England have won the series so an experiment will do no harm.
As good a bowler as Jon Lewis is he will get nothing out of the Aussie pitches, but saying that their pitches are harder and bouncier than their English counterparts appears to be wrong now. According to Tom Moody the WACA at Perth is flat as a witches tit these days. The SCG is always a bunsen, with probably the Gabba having the truest surface. Both the MCG and Adelaide Oval are good for batting and normally full of runs.
The England selectors have an interesting dilemma ahead of them for the winter, and I would say that the eleven who finished today are nailed on, plus IMO and subject to fitness Flintoff, G. Jones, Broad, Giles, Plunkett & one young batsman for experience.
I think we have a team to beat Australia on their own soil and retain the Ashes.
All we need to do is find a one day side!!
BILLERICAY BLUE
Rose Tinted Brigade Member⭐⭐🦐
I agree with the Freddie fit XI, but we couldn't go in with the unfit XI, Read at 6 and Plukett at 7, is just asking for trouble agaianst Warne. 200-4 would become 250 all out. I'm not 100 % sure about Cook, he's had a lot of luck in his innings so far, although being a lucky batsman is never a problem, but I just feel that Bell is a far better bet at 3, with Collingwood at 5, and Dalrymple at 6. Read 7 and Mahmood at 8.[b said:
It's just a shame that we haven't got another out and out quick who can bat above 8, although Tudor could probably do the job if you could guarantee the his fitness......
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
In a word:[b said:
No.
blues_r_best
Entertainment 7wenty
Where is Palistan anyway?
And can't believe that in your miracle injury free team you'd leave out Simon Jones Matt.
And can't believe that in your miracle injury free team you'd leave out Simon Jones Matt.
Shrimper2thecore
Members
Simon Jones in every time!!
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