British educational system condemned

[Tangled up in Blue]

[video]http://gu.com/p/3xfj6[/video]

Are we either luvvies or boffins? Shouldn't we be a bit of both?
I certainly agree on his comments about iplayer.

 

[OldBlueLady]

While I don't agree entirely with the "two camp" theory - there are definitely those that fall in between - he does have a point. As a manufacturing nation we simply can't compete with the Far East, so therefore the "boffins" are certainly in decline in that area however, in research I think we do rather better.

It's not really as simplistic as that though, my own view is that with the emergence of "soft" degree courses, the value of a degree is not always necessarily as well thought of as it was...unless it's from a more traditional subject base. I think a lot of the softer degrees probably come under the "luvvy" umbrella.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Let's not carried away by the Far East. A lot of their stuff is "reverse engineered" and then mass produced.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Let's not carried away by the Far East. A lot of their stuff is "reverse engineered" and then mass produced.

However they do it, it appeals more to the buyers world wide as it's cheaper.

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

Let's not carried away by the Far East. A lot of their stuff is "reverse engineered" and then mass produced.

I assume your TV was handbuilt by artisan crafstmen in the Midlands?

 

[shrimpfan]

Let's not carried away by the Far East. A lot of their stuff is "reverse engineered" and then mass produced .

cant beat a good old baird televisor.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Actually, to be fair, I do think the British educational system is ****ed. Look lower down the ladder, we now have students taking GCSEs in core subjects in year 9 and there's soon going to be the position where bright students amass enough UCAS points to not need to go to college because they will have taken their A-levels early too! It's beginning to happen now, students make their GCSE selections in year 8 (old 2nd year Seniors for those not up to speed!) and for those who are the brightest, this means they will take their GCSE in a subject at the end of year 9. Students can at the moment, choose to study their chosen GCSE over 3 years, so that's helpful to those who struggle but for those who excel at school it does mean they could take their GCSEs by the end of year 9 and spend years 10 and 11 doing their A-levels, so no need for a year 12 and 13 college course. I'm not sure what's supposed to happen, are they supposed to go on to uni 2 years early or have an extended (and early) gap year or two (remembering they'll still be 16 and 17) or take more subjects?

 

[osymandus]

Ah if only we had listen more to this man ;) http://sirkenrobinson.com/skr/

However we didn't what we did was tried to educate people in a formulaic manner to operate service industries or finacial system's . There are many creative types who were once upon a time lured away for the big buck... because that's what our society advocates as the best example of success in our society TO THE SOLE EXCLUSION of everything else .
They doesn't mean to say we flip over to a luddite/hippy stereo type leftie society either , or the near slavery and emotional nilaishum of the Gorden Gecko days .

We need balance Brunell was an artist , Hawksmoore and Wren were artists as well as being scientificly trained . Tesla , Marconi, Parson's .

 

[canveyshrimper]

Ah if only we had listen more to this man ;) http://sirkenrobinson.com/skr/

However we didn't what we did was tried to educate people in a formulaic manner to operate service industries or finacial system's . There are many creative types who were once upon a time lured away for the big buck... because that's what our society advocates as the best example of success in our society TO THE SOLE EXCLUSION of everything else .
They doesn't mean to say we flip over to a luddite/hippy stereo type leftie society either , or the near slavery and emotional nilaishum of the Gorden Gecko days .

We need balance Brunell was an artist , Hawksmoore and Wren were artists as well as being scientificly trained . Tesla , Marconi, Parson's .

By the very nature of any system it's bound to be formulaic, unless of course schools could haveone on one tutoring, and unless parents can afford a private tutor it's never going to happen. It doesn't happen in Public Schools, let alone Grammar or Comprehensive schools.

One of the things that has been over looked by many Governments and for that matter employers is offering school leavers apprenticeships. The coalition have at least taken steps to get companies to offer school leavers apprenticeships, and long may it continue. It's certainly better than paying kids to stay on when there's bugger all for them at the end.

 

[osymandus]

By the very nature of any system it's bound to be formulaic, unless of course schools could haveone on one tutoring, and unless parents can afford a private tutor it's never going to happen. It doesn't happen in Public Schools, let alone Grammar or Comprehensive schools.

One of the things that has been over looked by many Governments and for that matter employers is offering school leavers apprenticeships. The coalition have at least taken steps to get companies to offer school leavers apprenticeships, and long may it continue. It's certainly better than paying kids to stay on when there's bugger all for them at the end.

Which then is not formulaic ;) . I know what you mean but i sued then word in a dogmatic sense teh once size fits all social class etc .

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I assume your TV was handbuilt by artisan crafstmen in the Midlands?

Ours is German.:raspberry:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I've often been struck by how many members of my (French)wife's family are engineers.That would be a pretty non-u occupation in the UK, I suspect but it still remains prestigous enough in La Belle France.I suppose it helps that they still make things there.

 

[pickledseal]

To take exams early you need to teach to the exam. My old school, which was full of bright kids who could take some exams early instead got taught more broadly and ended up with lots of A/A*s. I have a big question mark over schools who get them to do exams early if they have nothing else in place to enable students to continue learning. Cramming exam content just to take an exam is not enabling students to learn, develop, mature as students and will probably struggle with uni learning styles.

To the original article, an interesting idea. There was a time not so long ago in schools were labelling students as audio/visual/kinaesthetic learners... For some the result was a kid sitting there saying "I'm a visual learner, I need to watch something" ie limiting themselves through labels.

It's hard when trying to help students but making choices, for example A-Level choice, I always suggest to students they take 1 that is a bit different to keep that broadness... ie Maths, Chemistry, Physics and then Music or History.

There may be some redeeming features to the Victorian system but a lot of negatives too...

I think there is a real place for enterprise education in the school which better prepares students for the world they are about to enter. It would be best delivered by outsiders, because as so many of you on here point out so frequently teachers don't have ant experience of the real world (!).

I think the fear of unemployment makes some students so focussed on one area, which is understandable as they want to excel in it. Education for me, shouldn't just be about qualifications (but they are the judgement factors for them as students and me as a teacher!) but about something broader. I don't have all the answers but I do think the Google chap has a point about the demise of the Great British businesses.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

To take exams early you need to teach to the exam. My old school, which was full of bright kids who could take some exams early instead got taught more broadly and ended up with lots of A/A*s. I have a big question mark over schools who get them to do exams early if they have nothing else in place to enable students to continue learning. Cramming exam content just to take an exam is not enabling students to learn, develop, mature as students and will probably struggle with uni learning styles.

To the original article, an interesting idea. There was a time not so long ago in schools were labelling students as audio/visual/kinaesthetic learners... For some the result was a kid sitting there saying "I'm a visual learner, I need to watch something" ie limiting themselves through labels.

It's hard when trying to help students but making choices, for example A-Level choice, I always suggest to students they take 1 that is a bit different to keep that broadness... ie Maths, Chemistry, Physics and then Music or History.

There may be some redeeming features to the Victorian system but a lot of negatives too...

I think there is a real place for enterprise education in the school which better prepares students for the world they are about to enter. It would be best delivered by outsiders, because as so many of you on here point out so frequently teachers don't have ant experience of the real world (!).

I think the fear of unemployment makes some students so focussed on one area, which is understandable as they want to excel in it. Education for me, shouldn't just be about qualifications (but they are the judgement factors for them as students and me as a teacher!) but about something broader. I don't have all the answers but I do think the Google chap has a point about the demise of the Great British businesses.

One clear sign of this is the decrease in the number of patents being taken out each year.I don't have the figures to hand but I believe this has fallen dramatically in the UK(as it has in Spain).

 

[pickledseal]

One clear sign of this is the decrease in the number of patents being taken out each year.I don't have the figures to hand but I believe this has fallen dramatically in the UK(as it has in Spain).

I'd love to get Peter Jones and Theo into school to work with my kids!

 

[Rudi Luftwaffe]

It's hard when trying to help students but making choices, for example A-Level choice, I always suggest to students they take 1 that is a bit different to keep that broadness... ie Maths, Chemistry, Physics and then Music or History.

Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry would be better if you are serious about getting into a top notch university.

 

[Uncle Leo]

we now have students taking GCSEs in core subjects in year 9

Now? I got an A in one of my GSCEs in the third year back in 1992 *smug face*

Incidentally, not long after that, one of my teachers got me to do an O Level paper, also under exam conditions, and I only got a C - it was appreciably harder than the GCSE.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Now? I got an A in one of my GSCEs in the third year back in 1992 *smug face*

Incidentally, not long after that, one of my teachers got me to do an O Level paper, also under exam conditions, and I only got a C - it was appreciably harder than the GCSE.

The second part of your comment there is no surprise, and it's why there's an annual chorus about exams being easier these days.


As to your having taken a GCSE in year 9 back in '92, well, I know some schools have done this for years, to enable students to carry on with a new or more advanced subject (for instance, taking maths early allows a student to then do statistics) but what's happening now is that it will be an expectation in many cases.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'd love to get Peter Jones and Theo into school to work with my kids!

Funny you should mention that.My wife is doing a Dragon's Den project with her secondary kids this year.Using local dragons though(including my Head of Department at the UAB).:winking:

 

[osymandus]

Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry would be better if you are serious about getting into a top notch university.

Only if your actually good at those subjects , if not its going to be painful .
The main thing we do miss out here is developing the individual child into what they are good at . WE probably do have teh next Einstein/Hawking out there , but as she's a blond girl who likes ponies she's pushed towards more socially acceptable (yes im generalising) roles.