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Fat Lot of good that done, then...

EastStandBlue

Life President
Joined
May 29, 2005
Messages
15,480
So, the day after Premier League squads had to announce their chosen 25 players, with 8 needing to be "Home Grown", and it's solved the square root of sod all.

Manchester City's Balotelli qualifies as a given because he's 20 years old. The likes of Fabregas and Clichy count towards Arsenal's home grown quota, allowing Arsenal to have over 70 players eligible for Premier League football this season.

In fact, it speaks volumes that the highest profile casualty is a crocked and retirement-bound Jonathan Woodgate, with Kightly next in line.


UEFA scrapped the "6+5" ruling following advice from the EU, but this is just far too lenient. It was supposed to encourage the development of a core base of English players, yet when one has to fight his way past 55 others just to find a spot on the Arsenal bench, it's pretty clear not much is being solved.
 

EastStandBlue

Life President
Joined
May 29, 2005
Messages
15,480
Is Bellamy not a casualty then?

Strictly speaking yes, but I'd regard that more as a result of him undermining Mancini in the press and being a disruptive influence within the camp, rather than as a result of his ability.
 

Davros

The Whippet
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
8,387
the home grown rule needs re-writing. I understand that the players in Arsenals squad have been through the youth developement, but i think the term home grown should be changed to insist upon the player holding a passport for the home nation, or at the least dual nationality
 

EastStandBlue

Life President
Joined
May 29, 2005
Messages
15,480
Just been told that Arsenal have, in fact, met the "Home Grown" quota without registering a single Englishman, as Jack Wilshere and Theo Walcott are eligible through being U21. Now that is ridiculous...
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,135
Location
London
the home grown rule needs re-writing. I understand that the players in Arsenals squad have been through the youth developement, but i think the term home grown should be changed to insist upon the player holding a passport for the home nation, or at the least dual nationality

Write to your MEP then and tell him that football needs a cultural exemption from Article 45(2) of the TFEU.

Of course we're on slightly shaky grounds here. Have you ever seen an English passport?
 

Beefy

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
18,901
Location
Old Leigh
The most ridiculous thing about this is that the players who don't make the cut (and there are very few of them) will now move on loan to Championship sides replacing young English players playing at that level. Luke Moore didn't make the 25 at West Brom and looks likely to go to Ipswich on loan now and stand in the way of Connor Wickham's development.
 

EastStandBlue

Life President
Joined
May 29, 2005
Messages
15,480
The most ridiculous thing about this is that the players who don't make the cut (and there are very few of them) will now move on loan to Championship sides replacing young English players playing at that level. Luke Moore didn't make the 25 at West Brom and looks likely to go to Ipswich on loan now and stand in the way of Connor Wickham's development.

In Ipswich's defence, they've sold Jon Stead and Jonathan Walters and Wickham is only just about to turn 18 years old, but I agree with your point that the backwards collapse won't benefit everybody.

The sticking point, for me anyway, is how a club like Arsenal can meet a supposed home grown quota without registering a single Englishman in their 25, purposefully leaving those precious few who were born on these shores out because they're eligible by some other means. Premier League managers objected to the 6+5 rule because they claimed it would be easy to avoid, well this is no better at all.

Arsenal should be applauded for investing so heavily in youth development, but to have 73 contracted, eligible players on their books is farcical. Bring in an overall contract limit of 50 or so players, with any given club able to negotiate Italy-styled part-own contracts with clubs lower down the league hierachy... Allowing players to seek regular football and stopping this ridiculous hoarding of talent shown by the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal.

Take Liverpool's capture of Jonjo Shelvy, supposedly one of the better players in England's youth system. Taken from regular, competitive football at Charlton and I don't think he's been included at Liverpool under Hodgson yet... If Liverpool were allowed to approach Charlton saying "Look, we want to take Shelvy on but we wouldn't want him just yet. Here's £1m for 50% of the player now, he remains with you until we need him, aiding his development, and we'll pay a further fee of £2m to sign him up fully when we feel he's ready," then it's a win/win situation.
 
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Shrimper

Life President
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
9,265
It should be changed so that you have to have 4 English players in your 25 regardless of age.
 

Fiftyone

Manager
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
1,435
ESB - where did you get the figure of 73 players on Arsenal's books?.
 

Shrimper

Life President
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
9,265
It's going by the youth teams I think, i.e Reserves and U18's.
 

steveo

mine to stay the same please
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
7,545
The sticking point, for me anyway, is how a club like Arsenal can meet a supposed home grown quota without registering a single Englishman in their 25, purposefully leaving those precious few who were born on these shores out because they're eligible by some other means.
.
But as you can have as many under 21's as you like, there was no need for them to name people like Walcott, Willshere and Gibbs in the squad. As a result they only named a 20 man squad.
 

southendkid

Director⭐
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
4,810
To be fair to Man City they do field quite a lot of Englishmen (Milner, Johnson, Hart, Bridge, Barry, Lescott and Richards, sorry if some of them didn't make the squad but they've all played this season to my knowledge)
 

steveo

mine to stay the same please
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
7,545
To be fair to Man City they do field quite a lot of Englishmen (Milner, Johnson, Hart, Bridge, Barry, Lescott and Richards, sorry if some of them didn't make the squad but they've all played this season to my knowledge)

? Surely the object of the game is to be the best team not field the most English players.

The old story about if there were more English players in the Prem the National team would be better is utter rubbish.
 

steveo

mine to stay the same please
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
7,545
Maybe not utter rubbish but if you remove foreign players from the premier div you can only replace them with English players who were not as good as them or they would already be playing. So teams would be filled with players who might have retired but have played on for a few more years, or players from the championship which in turn means players from league 1 would be playing in the championship and so on.
One argument is to say more youngsters would be given chance which would again lower the standard

England only need to find a squad of 22 players. They should be easily able to do that from the premier league. These players are playing against top class opposition every week.

There were no foreigners playing in the top English league in the 70's and 80's and look how poor our international record was then.
 
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