Maddie - the plot thickens

[palexander]

My personal theory is that they (prob Kate accidently, then Gerry discovered the situation) killed Maddie, then in the panic, called in some help - maybe that Robert Murat fella to help store/dispose of the body.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I think you find a few storys that have only happened recently of mothers killing their own children look at that women in Barking not 3 weeks ago who stabbed her little girl

Don't confuse those tragedies that may occur during post-natal depression with the general stats of maternal infanticide. The twins were two, so Kate McCann ought to be beyond PND; I'll say it again, the notion that she has murdered her own daughter is so fanciful that it has to be the explanation of possible resort.

When one looks at the general shambolic investigation conducted by the Portuguese police - failing to secure the scene of crime, failing to carry out detailed forensic searches, failing to secure international borders - I think this one has got "Police F**k Up" screaming all over it in every way.

I feel sorry for the McCann's. It looks like people are ready to crucify them for making a stupid misstake on holiday and, in the process, losing their daughter. I just cannot believe for a nanosecond that Kate McCann is in any way guilty of this.

I'll reserve judgement on the father; but there's just no way I can believe that Kate killed Maddie. No way.

 

[C C Csiders]

My personal theory is that they (prob Kate accidently, then Gerry discovered the situation) killed Maddie, then in the panic, called in some help - maybe that Robert Murat fella to help store/dispose of the body.

Based purely on a hunch I reckon Quasimodo has got something to do with it.

 

[Einstein]

I dont think they did it but if we assume they did the fact they left them alone is the basis of the "kidknapping" so would have been why they did it...

I've tried not to get involved in this thread since it was created, but I've got a question or maybe more of a statement, which I've never seen asked before on here or any other forum/news report.

If (heaven forbid) they did murder their own daughter, then why did they not kill their two other Children as well?

I know their have been cases in the past where Mothers have murdered their own babies, but from my (very) limited medical knowledge it is because of a condition they have developed (I believe some kind of stress) after the baby was born. Madeline was 3, so that condition is ruled out. If she no longer wanted Children then surely she would have made out a case for all three to have been 'kidnapped'?

Personally, I just think the Portugese Police are clutching at straws. I know we live in a sick world sometimes, but I just cannot imagine any Mother killing their own sweet 3 year old daughter.

I also think that there is a long way before the actual truth comes out, so speculating will continue for months, maybe years before it is revealed, if at all.

 

[southend_shrimp]

I'll reserve judgement on the father; but there's just no way I can believe that Kate killed Maddie. No way.

Why not it was the father who was making most of the appeals whilst she just held his hand in the background and kept quiet.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I think you find a few storys that have only happened recently of mothers killing their own children

Number 1: The women in Barking not 3 weeks ago who stabbed her little girl.


Number 2: Chandler Grafner was a 7-Year old boy from the Denver area who was beaten and eventually starved to death on May 6, 2007 by his father Jon Phillips and his girlfriend Sarah Berry.

Number 3: Victoria Climbié killed by her guardians Marie-Thérèse Kouao and Carl Manning in London, England, in 2000.

Those stories merely back up my position.

Sadly, the stories of fathers abusing and murdering their off-spring are legion. In any police investigation relating to child abuse / murder, the father is inevitably one of the first suspects.

But the cases of a mother doing it to her own child are incredibly, incredibly rare - almost unheard of outside post natal depression cases. As men, we will never understand the bond formed between mother and child whilst she carries it, and it grows inside her, during nine months of pregnancy - which is why it is so, so rare for a mother to be involved.

The Climbie case, tragic that it was, also proves nothing - neither of the people involved were little Victoria's parents.

As I say, Gerry McCann has to remain a suspect - fathers, sadly, are often found to be responsible. But Kate McCann? No way.

Matt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Why not it was the father who was making most of the appeals whilst she just held his hand in the background and kept quiet.

Because quite clearly she was utterly and visibly consumed and paralysed by grief. Crikey, you must have a heart of granite not to have seen that!

:eek:

 

[southend_shrimp]

But the cases of a mother doing it to her own child are incredibly, incredibly rare - almost unheard of outside post natal depression cases.

Think this proves it isnt incredibly rare this is just a few cases from the US i managed after a 2 second google session. All outside of post natel depression.



Debra Jean Milke was 25 when she killer her four-year-old son in Arizona in 1989.

Dora Luz Durenrostro killed her two daughters, age four and nine, and her son, age 8, when she was 34 years old in San Jacinto, California in 1994.

Caro Socorro was 42 years old when she killer her three sons, age five, eight and 11, in Santa Rosa Valley, California in 1999.

Susan Eubanks murdered her four sons, ages four, six, seven, and 14, in San Marcos, California, in 1996 when she was 33.

Caroline Young was 49 in Haywood, California when she killed her four-year-old granddaughter and six-year-old grandson. ( <they were grandchildren so dont really count as much as im arguing the case of parents killing their own children]

Robin Lee Row was 35 years old when she killed her husband, her 10-year-old son and her eight-year-old daughter in Boise, Idaho in 1992.

Michelle Sue Tharp was 29 years old in Burgettstown, Pennsylvania when she killed her seven-year-old daughter.

Franic Elaine Newton was 21 when she murdered her husband, seven-year-old son and two-year-old daughter in Houston, Texas.

Darlie Lynn Routier was 26 in Rowlett, Texas when she killed her five-year-old son.

 

[Jam_Man]

Why not it was the father who was making most of the appeals whilst she just held his hand in the background and kept quiet.

Yeah not sure why the father would be any more likely.

If the parents did it (and a big IF), then they must have been both involved as I cant see how either of them would have been able to hide it from the other. After all if she had accidentally drugged her and disposed of the body how could she do so without him seeing as the body would have to be miles away.

Sounds too unlikely either of them could have done it.

 

[Davros]

im in full agreement with everythign MTS has to say on this matter

 

[southend_shrimp]

There was that case in the US when the women who's two babys had been killed was on TV everyday crying, appealing for help and allsorts and it was found out she did it < or something along the lines of it cant remember exactly what happened

Here is the above story

On October 25, 1994, Smith drove to John D. Long Lake outside Union, South Carolina, to contemplate a letter written to her by her married lover: he did not want to see her any longer. She claims she attributed this to the fact that she had two children by another man, her former husband, which her lover did not want around. To Smith's mind, there was only one thing to do.
She parked on the gravel boat ramp and thought about what to do while Michael, 3, and Alex, age 14 months, were asleep in the back. She had to kill them both, she believed, and then herself&#8212;or so she claimed. Smith put the car into neutral and felt it move toward the water. She got out, hesitated, and then reached into the car to release the emergency brake. The Mazda, lights still on, rolled forward into the water. Alex and Michael were securely strapped in. It would all be over in moments.
Smith watched as the car floated and filled with water. Finally it went under and she ran to a nearby house, screaming that a black man had accosted her at a traffic light and taken her car with her sons inside. It wasn't long before investigators figured out what she had done, found the car, and brought the two small bodies out of the water. Smith was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison.

 

[moneypit23]

Think this proves it isnt incredibly rare this is just a few cases from the US i managed after a 2 second google session. All outside of post natel depression.



Debra Jean Milke was 25 when she killer her four-year-old son in Arizona in 1989.

Dora Luz Durenrostro killed her two daughters, age four and nine, and her son, age 8, when she was 34 years old in San Jacinto, California in 1994.

Caro Socorro was 42 years old when she killer her three sons, age five, eight and 11, in Santa Rosa Valley, California in 1999.

Susan Eubanks murdered her four sons, ages four, six, seven, and 14, in San Marcos, California, in 1996 when she was 33.

Caroline Young was 49 in Haywood, California when she killed her four-year-old granddaughter and six-year-old grandson. ( <they were grandchildren so dont really count as much as im arguing the case of parents killing their own children]

Robin Lee Row was 35 years old when she killed her husband, her 10-year-old son and her eight-year-old daughter in Boise, Idaho in 1992.

Michelle Sue Tharp was 29 years old in Burgettstown, Pennsylvania when she killed her seven-year-old daughter.

Franic Elaine Newton was 21 when she murdered her husband, seven-year-old son and two-year-old daughter in Houston, Texas.

Darlie Lynn Routier was 26 in Rowlett, Texas when she killed her five-year-old son.

But that is America you're talking about - population 300m at last estimate.

 

[C C Csiders]

Robin Lee Row

Wasn't he the singer in Van Halen?:confused:

 

[londonblue]

I think you find a few storys that have only happened recently of mothers killing their own children

Number 1: The women in Barking not 3 weeks ago who stabbed her little girl.


Number 2: Chandler Grafner was a 7-Year old boy from the Denver area who was beaten and eventually starved to death on May 6, 2007 by his father Jon Phillips and his girlfriend Sarah Berry.

Number 3: Victoria Climbié killed by her guardians Marie-Thérèse Kouao and Carl Manning in London, England, in 2000.

There is 3 prime examples of parents who murder there own children i could probably list dozens more so it is not uncommon as you suggested! so therefore not even the parents can be ruled out of any murder or dissaperance of their children no matter how teary eyed they come acrossed!

Ben Needham
Kenny Ohia
Sarah Benford
Charlene Downes
Daniel Entwhistle
Tulay Goren

There's more missing children than there are children murdered by their parents. (Missing Kids). Agreed you can never rule out parents, but it's not always that simple.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

That's 8, in the space of 20 years, in a country with a murder rate about 10 times as high as the UK per capita of population thanks, in no small part, to the ready accessibility to firearms.

How many of those cases, above, were there no mental history issues (which, given that Kate McCann is doctor, she will have been screened for prior to being given her practising certificate by the GMC)?

I'll say it again, the chances that Kate McCann is guilty of this are so infinitessimally small that they can be discounted as fanciful or ludicrous; sadly, the same cannot yet be said for Gerry - although given the gross incompetence of the Portuguese police, the likeliest outcome must be that the killer (since I think we must presume that Madeleine is dead) will never be found.

As a final thought - and pardon my cynicism, but I am married to a former journalist, so I've been a bit closer to the coal-face than most - the job of newspapers is not merely to tell the news - it's also to shift copy.

What's the more lurid headline that's likely to grab your attention?

Kate McCann Probably Not Guilty

or

Kate McCann Named As Suspect

:confused:

 

[stickyboy]

How many of those cases, above, were there no mental history issues (which, given that Kate McCann is doctor, she will have been screened for prior to being given her practising certificate by the GMC)?

Didnt we have "doctors" trying to bomb Glasgow airport the other week though?!

 

[fatshrimp]

One thing to point out. The BBC link says:

"Justine McGuinness said officers believed that traces of Madeleine's blood were in the McCanns' car, hired 25 days after she vanished."

Assuming that they are in some way implicated in her disappearance, how on earth would they manage to get her blood in their car without arousing suspicion in some way? For instance, if they were seen bundling a blood stained roll of carpet in the boot, someone might have mentioned it.

Seems like a strange thing to mention.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Didnt we have "doctors" trying to bomb Glasgow airport the other week though?!

Yes. The scary thing is, they were perfectly sane too.

:(

Still, blowing up strangers is a rather diffierent type of activity from murdering your own child...?

Matt

 

[southend_shrimp]

Assuming that they are in some way implicated in her disappearance, how on earth would they manage to get her blood in their car without arousing suspicion in some way? For instance, if they were seen bundling a blood stained roll of carpet in the boot, someone might have mentioned it.

Seems like a strange thing to mention.

There is so many ways it can be explained

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

There is so many ways it can be explained

You've got the bit between your teeth on this one, haven't you?!

:thump: