Mitchell Cole

[Yoda]

Quote[/b] (Prodigal Son @ Aug. 09 2005,13:59)]I believe alot of us think to criticise but are not vocal, is that allowed? The players now are 100% in contrast to years ago which resulted in a rapid decline. We should also remember there is a reason why these players are in the lower leagues, so what do people expect?

The thing is, EVERYTHING is "allowed". If you want to scream and shout abuse at a player, it's certainly "allowed" - and I'm speaking generally Prodigal Son, not pointing at you.

What's more relevant is that shouting abuse at a player (for what might be a mistake) is hardly going to make him play better.

Everyone gets frustrated at a game when things don't go according to plan. Criticism is only justified if it is constructive - which abuse isn't.

 

[Winkle]

Quote[/b] (SUFCFARAWAY @ Aug. 09 2005,13:43)]

Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Aug. 09 2005,13:37)]I'm torn between the right to voice your opinion having paid your money and the constructiveness of shouting abuse at players that have $%&*ed up.

I'm pretty sure 90% of the crowd heaved a collective and audible groan when Jupp made the error for the second goal. That, to me, seems an entirely instinctive reaction.

The verbal tirade needs some degree of pre-thought and I'm sure is done more to 'impress' everyone around the perpetrator who, for the most part will regard the prat with the contempt he deserves.

The worst offenders are those that so obviously look at the teamsheet hoping xyz is playing so they can abuse them at every opportunity. The West has its resident Maher abuser for this very purpose and had/has any number of Tes, Drewe, Jupp, Che, Gray abusers.

of course the groaning will occur. When we are in a good position to score and it goes wrong of course the natural reaction is to groan. or in jupps case (these things happen) when he made the error we all wanted to slap him but you have to remember these players week in, week out play 110% for us and they will feel even worse for not just letting themselves down, but the team, Tilly and the fans. And players learn from their mistakes and chances are Jupp will not make the same mistake again (well at least I hope not).

My point is that this was his Mitchells first senior game , with respect to juppys mistake at some point in the season all footballers will make an error. I just felt that for people to make up there mind up after one game is shere lunacy!!! I remember S.Clarks last game,it wouldnt have mattered if he had scored a hat-trick,he new that supporters had allready made their mind up

 

[Technician]

I think the problem stems from Cole NOT scoring on his debut.

Since he came from the same club as Freddy Eastwood, who not only scored on his debut, but scored the fastest goal in nearly 100 years of football and went on to get his first senior hattrick, all in the same game, it is (perhaps) understandable that folk will get on Cole's back!

I don't condone it of course!

FWIW, I thought he played well, but needs to sharpen his skills.

 

[canveyshrimper]

I presume that perpatrators of all the abuse (not criticism) are without sin in their own professions.

I just wonder what the reaction would be if one of the was told he was an effing useless to55er and sh*te because he had made a mistake in his job.

There will always be a collective groan of agonised disappointment when a chance or whatever goes begging, equally as there will be a massive roar when we score.

Criticise constructively by all means, but please no mindless foul mouthed invective.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison  

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

 

[SUFCFARAWAY]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,15:28)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison  

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

ok guys. everyone is entitled to their own opnions - thats what the forum is for but lets not take this too far.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,15:28)]Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

Yup! Me letting out a groan obviously ranks the same as shouting something like "$%&* off you useless w%&ker!". I assume you make no noises at all when watching football.

 

[overseas shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,16:28)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison  

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

But all he said was that he groaned. That's different to the outright abuse some 'fans' dish out.

 

[SUFCFARAWAY]

Quote[/b] (overseas shrimper @ Aug. 09 2005,15:32)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,16:28)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison  

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

But all he said was that he groaned. That's different to the outright abuse some 'fans' dish out.

groans are going to be let out - it shows emotion toward the beautiful game. It was the point that King Cole was receiving verbual abuse that he did not deserve. Not just him but what no player deserves. Cole knows he can play better, we have seen that already in pre-season so he wil be disappointed enough without some plonker insulting him more. I can almost guarantee that we wil see a better performance from the lad, as well as the rest of the team, tonight.

2 - 1 to the shrimpers.

 

[Yoda]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:30)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,15:28)]Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

Yup! Me letting out a groan obviously ranks the same as shouting something like "$%&* off you useless w%&ker!". I assume you make no noises at all when watching football.

Easy tiger!

I think if you re-read all the posts, you'll see that no-one has a problem with moaning, groaning, disappointment, criticism, high expectations, etc..

People have been arguing the case against shouting abuse at players - and, specifically it would seem, young players making their debut in the football league. If that's you, feel free to take umbrage. If not, then there appears to be no problem.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison  

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

Thinking about it more... your argument doesnt hold any water at all...

School leavers 'starting a job they've never done' - surely they should have done all of the component parts at least to some extent - otherwise what were they doing at school/college/university and on what basis did they get the job? They would have been working on those skills for years, similar to Mitchell playing footy as a boy.

He also hadnt played pro football with the pressure of such a large crowd, so he could suffer from the same nerves as anyone in a new job. I wonder how many teenagers starting a new job have 6000 people scrutinising their every move and loudly criticising any small error?

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

 

[Winkle]

Quote[/b] (MilkeySUFC @ Aug. 09 2005,12:33)]I groaned when Cole's crosses didn't come off. I grumbled when Jupp messed up the attempted interception that lead to the 2nd goal. I moaned when Guttridge kept being dragged inside and leaving our right flank exposed. Not because I think they are crap but because I always expect perfection from my team and the players in it. But I certainly didn't barrack or shout at them or any of the team/management/owners even though we were collectively p%&s-poor in the 1st half and only marginally better 2nd.

The thing is nobody is perfect,When I make mistakes it is not in front of 5000 odd supporters and in general no one other than me would notice.It just goes to show how fussy some football supporters can be.I saw enough in our game on saturday to suggest we are not going to be anyone whipping boys in fact I am probably getting a bit over optimistic with regards to how well we will do this season!!!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (overseas shrimper @ Aug. 09 2005,15:32)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,16:28)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:09)]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,13:25)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,12:38)]Yes I groaned about Coles crosses, especially in the first half. Call it being picky, but I would expect a professional footballer to be able to kick it in the air!

I'd like to know how perfect you were as a teenager on your first (proper) day at work...

 

Good comparison  

Someone leaves school to start a job they've never done against someone who has been playing football all his life. I apologise unreservedly for daring to let out a groan when his crosses were crap. I also apologise for cheering when his crosses were good. Thank god football isn't a game of emotion.

Fair enough, if thats your attitude then feel free to rip the p%&s out of him - clearly he's got it coming!

But all he said was that he groaned. That's different to the outright abuse some 'fans' dish out.

It wasn't the 'groan' in his sentence that was contentious - it was the fact that 'he expects a pro footballer to be able to kick a ball in the air'... I'm sure we all do.

However he doesn't seem able to reconcile this with the fact that not everyone does thing perfectly every time - and that a teenager on their debut might make more mistakes than they would normally due to nerves!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (Winkle @ Aug. 09 2005,15:54)]

Quote[/b] (MilkeySUFC @ Aug. 09 2005,12:33)]I groaned when Cole's crosses didn't come off. I grumbled when Jupp messed up the attempted interception that lead to the 2nd goal. I moaned when Guttridge kept being dragged inside and leaving our right flank exposed. Not because I think they are crap but because I always expect perfection from my team and the players in it. But I certainly didn't barrack or shout at them or any of the team/management/owners even though we were collectively p%&s-poor in the 1st half and only marginally better 2nd.

The thing is nobody is perfect,When I make mistakes it is not in front of 5000 odd supporters and in general no one other than me would notice.It just goes to show how fussy some football supporters can be.I saw enough in our game on saturday to suggest we are not going to be anyone whipping boys in fact I am probably getting a bit over optimistic with regards to how well we will do this season!!!

Precisely!

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Spiff

Lighten up!

I've apologised for groaning. I should have remembered that teenagers can't kick the ball in the air when making their debuts.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

quote]
How could we possibly hope to win any debate when faced with such astute and persuasive argument...

 

[Mad Cyril]

Quote[/b] (Spaceman Spiff @ Aug. 09 2005,15:52)]I wonder how many teenagers starting a new job have 6000 people scrutinising their every move and loudly criticising any small error?

I had a very large paper round when I was 13.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Aug. 09 2005,15:57)]Spiff

Lighten up!

I've apologised for groaning. I should have remembered that teenagers can't kick the ball in the air when making their debuts.

Tell Mitchell when he's wondernig what he did to deserve abuse...

I'm sorry but I dont find abusing kids on their first day at the club a light hearted matter - frankly I'm surprised anyone would...