new ground in 2 years.

[Firestorm]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ April 08 2005,13:35)]

Quote[/b] (C'mon you Blues @ April 08 2005,11:53)]Matt however I do agree 2 years seems optimistic. I think the sticking point at presen s Ron buying out Delancey. I should imagine it's stalled because Ron is offering less than Delancey want. However I think he may hold the aces. Hopefully it'll be sorted soon.

I'm not sure he is buying out Delancey, is he?

My impression is that IF the Hall gets developed and IF the new stadium gets built then Delancey get their pay off from those projects.  Don't forget, Delancey are only financial backers, not owners.  So once they have been paid off, they're gone.  Nothing to buy out.

This level of debt is small change to Delancey so they are hardly likely to a) call it in, or b) settle for less than the debt now as they don't need the money.

I also think that because the development was called before 2 jags and subsequently passed, that's it.  The whole development allows for a football stadium doesn't it?  I'm not sure exactly what hurdles are left to overcome but I don't think there are many and whatever ones are left aren't particularly high.

My own view is that work on the stadium will start at some point in the next 18 months and we'll be in by August 2007.  Not quite 2 years, but not far out.

My understanding was that RM was trying to buy Delancey out of the deal before the Stadium was built, etc

Delancey have wanted out for a while now, the deal has dragged on a bit for them. So I believe Ron was trying to get to an agreement were the debt and a projected profit figure would be paid over to Delancey and then MD/SEL would be the sole beneficiaries of the FF/RH developments (Plus of course the financiers of the buy out )

But the last thing I heard was that the two parties were a little apart in their numbers and RM was reaching his limit...

 

[TerryintheWest]

Delancey hold 50% of the SEL shares in the club, 50% of Roots Hall and 50% of the training ground. These holdings have to be purchased!

 

[Firestorm]

Correct me if I am wrong Terry, but the value of these shares when purchased was next to nothing, and that is what was paid for them, the "cost" to delancey was that they would have to lend the club money to keep it going in order to realise the asset. The value of the shares is in the potential profit available in the development of B&L / RH.
In order to buy Delancey out the estimated final value of the share(ie the profit) has to be negotiated. Thats the stumbling block

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ April 08 2005,13:35)]Don't forget, Delancey are only financial backers, not owners.  So once they have been paid off, they're gone.  Nothing to buy out. This level of debt is small change to Delancey...

Well, quite. How long they're prepared to wait for that is, frankly, a far more pressing issue than a new stadium. A £7-8m liability, morevover, is not small-change in anyone's profit and loss books, particularly at a time when the market for commercial rent (the main Delancey business in terms of property development) is struggling (cf. Canary Wharf).

C'mon you Blues - the B&Q planning application was called in. Since there is likely to be considerable public outcry from Skarers, and given what has happened in places where there have recently been other stadium developments, I should have thought a call-in was an odds-on bet.

The B&Q application had, as I recall, two elements which related to it. One concerned the "change of use / designation" of the FF land which, on the Borough Plan had been designated (I think) as green belt. For a B&Q Warehouse, it needed that to be changed for a retail / light industrial user on the Borough Plan, so that would always need to be considered by the SSETR. That change of use has been approved, so far as I know.

In addition, it was my understanding that there had been some sort of deal between Lansbury and SEL such that any negotiations for sale/purchase of lands around and including B&L and FF was contingent on the B&Q application being approved. That then gave the club a certain amount of time in which to exercise a purchase option, provided (or at least I thought it was) that the club lodged its application for planning consent. So far as I know, that hasn't been done. Whether that causes problem with exercising the option to purchase is, alas, something I don't know.

I'm afraid that until I see an official press release stating that a planning application has been lodged with the Council, then I shall continue to treat a new stadium as rather pie-in-the-sky... which is not exactly my definition of "2 years away", at any rate.

Matt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (TerryintheWest @ April 08 2005,14:52)]Delancey hold 50% of the SEL shares in the club, 50% of Roots Hall and 50% of the training ground. These holdings have to be purchased!

I understood that Delancey held 75% of SEL (which in turn has 75% of the shares in SUFC Ltd) and 75% of Roots Hall Limited (which 100% owns Roots Hall and B&L).

In other words, I thought that Delancey control 56.25% of the club and 75% of the land.

However, I may well be wrong about that...

Matt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ April 08 2005,14:50)]My understanding was that RM was trying to buy Delancey out of the deal before the Stadium was built, etc

Delancey have wanted out for a while now, the deal has dragged on a bit for them. So I believe Ron was trying to get to an agreement were the debt and a projected profit figure would be paid over to Delancey and then MD/SEL would be the sole beneficiaries of the FF/RH developments (Plus of course the financiers of the buy out )

But the last thing I heard was that the two parties were a little apart in their numbers and RM was reaching his limit...

Mr. C - I know you've done a "back of the envelope" calculation of these sorts of issues before, which is where I've come up with my Delancey buy-out figure of £7-8m.

Do we really think that Ron has that sort of money?

Matt

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 08 2005,15:19)]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ April 08 2005,14:50)]My understanding was that RM was trying to buy Delancey out of the deal before the Stadium was built, etc

Delancey have wanted out for a while now, the deal has dragged on a bit for them. So I believe Ron was trying to get to an agreement were the debt and a projected profit figure would be paid over to Delancey and then MD/SEL would be the sole beneficiaries of the FF/RH developments (Plus of course the financiers of the buy out )

But the last thing I heard was that the two parties were a little apart in their numbers and RM was reaching his limit...

Mr. C - I know you've done a "back of the envelope" calculation of these sorts of issues before, which is where I've come up with my Delancey buy-out figure of £7-8m.

Do we really think that Ron has that sort of money?

Matt

Thanks, you've all cheered me up no end this afternoon....! Been out for 3 pints of Guinness, log on to SZ and find that a.) I don't really understand what you're talking about. b.) What I do understand makes me nervous.

Anyway must go, got a weak bladder etc..!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

As they say in The Fly:

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 08 2005,15:32)]As they say in The Fly:

Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

Is Ron Martin a giant fly then?

FFS don't sit in front of the directors box, he may chunder after a dodgy prawn vol aux vent and then you'll be in trouble...!

 

[Firestorm]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 08 2005,15:19)]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ April 08 2005,14:50)]My understanding was that RM was trying to buy Delancey out of the deal before the Stadium was built, etc

Delancey have wanted out for a while now, the deal has dragged on a bit for them. So I believe Ron was trying to get to an agreement were the debt and a projected profit figure would be paid over to Delancey and then MD/SEL would be the sole beneficiaries of the FF/RH developments (Plus of course the financiers of the buy out )

But the last thing I heard was that the two parties were a little apart in their numbers and RM was reaching his limit...

Mr. C - I know you've done a "back of the envelope" calculation of these sorts of issues before, which is where I've come up with my Delancey buy-out figure of £7-8m.

Do we really think that Ron has that sort of money?

Matt

Now I don't honestly know what the debt to Delancy is but as the Club owes 8M (as at June 03 accounts) and SEL, MD and SUFC Ltd do not have this sort of money I guess it must be owed to Delancey. So Assuming that they will want a return on this investment I would guess that they buy back value is nearer 10-12M.
Now either RM has got the go ahead for the buy out or he has completely given up on it, so either way he is able to start to take things forward.

Will a change of use be required ? B&L is designated on the borough plan as Sports Stadia development land, The new stadium will not be there but the B&Q Access road will be, or are we looking at two changes of use ?

I still don't think the Stadium will be called in as long as the plans are watertight regarding traffic access etc, as I believe the B&Q was called in as a matter of course due to the DOE's dictum about out of town retail developments rather that anyones campaigning

 

[TerryintheWest]

Quote[/b] ]I understood that Delancey held 75% of SEL (which in turn has 75% of the shares in SUFC Ltd) and 75% of Roots Hall Limited (which 100% owns Roots Hall and B&L).

Matt,

South Eastern Leisure UK Limited own 76% of Southend United FC Limited and in their annual report and accounts for the year ending 31/3/01, it states that " The company is under the joint control of Delancey Estates Limited and Martin Dawn Plc. There is therefore no ultimate controlling party."

Roots Hall Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of SEL UK Ltd  so I presume there is no controlling interest there either.

I am not sure of the company owning the B&L land (Mailtrace?) but Roots Hall Limited do not own it but I bet that the directors are the same!!

All pretty dry stuff but useful to know about!  

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ April 08 2005,15:50)]So Assuming that they will want a return on this investment I would guess that they buy back value is nearer 10-12M.

Come on, realistically, this club aren't going to be able to make that profit in the short run or guarantee it in the long run. I think inj teh circumstances, they'd be happy to break even on their investments.

 

[SUFC Employee]

not even the staff know whats goin on in relation to the new stadium