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New Stadium update

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
7,102
it is not even a remotely sensible thing either for him or us though- particularly as there is already a developer in place who has contracts agreed with SBC and regarding the stadium with Populous (for the build) and Housing England (for enabling funding). The co-developers are the billionaire Dellals. What would starting again and selling to someone else achieve?

As for the club itself its value to a new buyer will be when a new stadium with the attached revenue streams is there. That will be the optimal time to sell and the new owner could buy club and stadium (if very deep pockets) or just club and lease stadium (if normal owner sized pockets). Ron has already said all this. And again selling now when the club is integral to the ongoing development would throw everything up in the air.

So in summary the chances of Ron selling before the new stadium is built is precisely zero. Which is a reality for which I think there is general acceptance..
 

Ghost of C.F.

Ghost of Christmas Past
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
123
Location
Rochford
it is not even a remotely sensible thing either for him or us though- particularly as there is already a developer in place who has contracts agreed with SBC and regarding the stadium with Populous (for the build) and Housing England (for enabling funding). The co-developers are the billionaire Dellals. What would starting again and selling to someone else achieve?

As for the club itself its value to a new buyer will be when a new stadium with the attached revenue streams is there. That will be the optimal time to sell and the new owner could buy club and stadium (if very deep pockets) or just club and lease stadium (if normal owner sized pockets). Ron has already said all this. And again selling now when the club is integral to the ongoing development would throw everything up in the air.

So in summary the chances of Ron selling before the new stadium is built is precisely zero. Which is a reality for which I think there is general acceptance..
Yes., you have made some good points there and I will rethink my position on this . I always like to tread carefully on this issue because I don't want people to think I am just part of the anti-Ron brigade . Its really just about trying to see what actions bring about the best results for everyone . In the end I just think right now that both the club and Ron need a lot of cash in order to survive - and the one good thing about selling things is that a big cheque arrives on your doormat - hopefully .
 

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
7,102
Yes., you have made some good points there and I will rethink my position on this . I always like to tread carefully on this issue because I don't want people to think I am just part of the anti-Ron brigade . Its really just about trying to see what actions bring about the best results for everyone . In the end I just think right now that both the club and Ron need a lot of cash in order to survive - and the one good thing about selling things is that a big cheque arrives on your doormat - hopefully .
Indded. I don't think its a question of being pro-Ron, anti-Ron or indifferent. Its just the reality and I think people therefore can come to the same place on that whatever their view.
 

Pak Power

Manager⭐
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
2,451
Location
Judea
I wonder how much the materials for building the stadium have gone up since it was first talked about
 

RHB

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
26,859
Location
Westcliff riviera
I wonder how much the materials for building the stadium have gone up since it was first talked out in about
It all started up in pounds shillings and pence when there were 12 pennies to a shilling and 20 shillings to a pound, unless you had 21 shillings then it was a guinea. In those days bricks were cheaper by the dozen. I think I've been very guilty of bullshite overload here.:Winking:
 

Sherif H

Omar's older brother
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
1,819
Location
Southend
I wonder how much the materials for building the stadium have gone up since it was first talked about
I can tell you first hand that steel, aluminium and composite materials (e.g. GRP) which we predominantly use to design & build semi-permanent / modular stadia have gone up some 30% from pre-Covid, and we are only now just starting to see some signs of plateauing.
Suppliers are using Brexit and Covid as a convenient excuse to essentially price fix across the sector.
No supplier worth their salt is holding a price for more than 30 days, and payment terms have become more draconian than ever.
Ron may have long discussed a target cost with a preferred Contractor which would then be negotiated on an 'open-book' basis at the appropriate time, but, if the works happened to be tendered, whereas Contractors would be requested to fix prices, sometimes for more than 6 months, now, that would be nigh on impossible.
 

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
7,102
The other side to this somewhat negative reality is that the value of the overall development and the thousands of housing units will also have shot up in line with the housing market. The net net of all that is for us to wonder…
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
17,668
My understanding (and to be honest, I haven't really bothered to delve too deep as I've kind of lost the will to live trying to follow the various nuances of our ever-evolving development deal) is that the enabling developments don't necessarily have to be started before the stadium works commence.
I'm also assuming that the full breadth of site prep has been defined and can be commenced prior to the quoted date (e.g. utility redirections, ecological/arboricultural measures etc...)
@Sherif H, a question for you based on the stadium builds you've had experience of. How do the number of iterations we've been through compare to other builds?

I'm genuinely interested as it seems that our build saga is endless, but it may be that this is par for the course. Just interested to know how we compare.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
17,668
I wonder how much the materials for building the stadium have gone up since it was first talked about
I mentioned earlier in this thread about construction in general. Apparently it's very difficult to get builders to quote for work at the moment because prices are rising so if they give a price, by the time they do the work there is a good chance that they will lose money. The best you can get out of them is something along the lines of "cost + 20%".

That could well delay any build as the construction negotiations could rumble on for a long time, or at least until prices stabilise.
 
Last edited:

Sherif H

Omar's older brother
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
1,819
Location
Southend
@Sherif H, a question for you based on the stadium builds you've had experience of. How do the number of iterations we've been through compare to other builds?

I'm genuinely interested as it seems that our build saga is endless, but it may be that this is par for the course. Just interested to know how we compare.
It differs wildly - much depends on whether it is public or private funding being used for the development.
All new-build stadium projects take an age to progress from inception to completion for a few reasons - principally:
  1. They aren't of any obvious value / high priority to the presiding planning authority
  2. Particularly in large urban areas, there is typically limited opportunity for site acquisition, and when land is found, the planning hurdles can drag the matter out for some time - agreeing Section 106 obligations can sometimes be a project in itself
  3. If public money is being used, then the local authority needs to see some of their needs being satisfied within the development site (this somewhat reverts back to the earlier Section 106 point)
  4. If the project is of sufficient scale, then it may get called in by the Secretary of State (as per FF) which further increases the timesecales
As an example, the Colchester Community Stadium had a construction cost of about £15m. This was funded by the Local Authority, and they then set up a Stadium Management Company to operate the venue - this means the Club gets a serviceable venue for no outlay, but also means that the Council benefits from most of the revenue generation on a non-matchday.
Furthermore, it was placed on a site which enabled the longer term regeneration of the Northern Corridor of Colchester to be commenced - the Local Authority has since gone on to develop a new A12 junction, a Park & Ride site and the Northern Gateway Sports Complex to name but a few - it served a function for them.
This is probably where these opinions of a so-called 'identikit' stadium come from - the stadium is essentially the least important part of the longer term development, and therefore majors on bang for buck as opposed to architectural flair - not necessarily a bad thing in my book, as stadium architecture is extremely subjective...it is there to serve a function and looking aesthetically original or imposing is just a nice-to-have.

Ricoh Arena was another, albeit only partially owned by the Council and a Sports Trust which owns and operates most of the other leisure venues in the City - again though, it ticked many of the same boxes as the Colchester.

FF is a completely different story - because it is being funded solely by private capital, there is virtually no incentive for the Local Authority (other than the perceived benefits of housing a potentially successful football club in it's footprint - this is very subjective for various decision makers...) to move things on, except of course in the event that the structure of the land deal enables much needed regeneration in a certain area - this is why the current proposals seem to have struck a chord, as the levels of housing being delivered would satisfy the Council's massive quotas.
In the same vain, given the gargantuan size of the task involved in delivering such a behemoth, every element of the development plan needs to align - everything needs to happen at the right time - as most of you know, timing has not been kind to Ron, but it would appear that we now have the right development mix to proceed - it again now comes down to topping up the kitty to ensure everything can proceed, and that, unfortunately will always be a bit of a lottery.
As has happened in the past iterations of the FF masterplan, if the economic conditions change, the proposed development mix (and therefore funding model) might well need to change again, and there the planning clock needs to be wound back partially yet again...
 

Bumpkinblue1

Full Back
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
2
Just see a big old digger being unloaded in one of the fields at fossetts could be nothing but who knows.
Yeah - my wife actually got asked for directions by some guy who said he had heavy machinery to deliver to a field down there for a new housing estate - I started to get excited until it turns out its for that affordable housing flat pack housing that has nothing to do with Ron - why was I not surprised............
 

Ghost of C.F.

Ghost of Christmas Past
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
123
Location
Rochford
Yeah - my wife actually got asked for directions by some guy who said he had heavy machinery to deliver to a field down there for a new housing estate - I started to get excited until it turns out its for that affordable housing flat pack housing that has nothing to do with Ron - why was I not surprised............
But I don't think Ron's homes will be very much different from those homes . I am sure I read a council report which said they would be manufactured in a factory and assembled at Fossetts . We may have a 17,000 seat stadium that resembles the Brentford Stadium but the housing element is completely different - 1000 homes, all high end of the market up at Kew Bridge Station.
 
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