Nottingham Ice Hockey player dies during match

[rigsby]

Involuntary manslaughter could be in play here. https://www.draycottbrowne.co.uk/serious-crime/manslaughter-murder/involuntary-manslaughter

Fair shout but to me its clear he meant to cause injury so not involuntary.

 

[hlane17]

Fair shout but to me its clear he meant to cause injury so not involuntary.

If we are to suggest he intended serious injury (GBH) it would be murder.

CPS will have to make a call as to whether they believe they can get a guilty verdict for murder, as compared to proving his recklessness/dangerous behaviour in a manslaughter case.

 

[GBJ]

Fair shout but to me its clear he meant to cause injury so not involuntary.

That’s the complicated issue I was referring to. Trying to hit an opponent in ice hockey is common place. It’s encouraged. Everyone knows the potential risks it carries, but nevertheless it’s part and parcel of the sport.

This incident has crossed that line for sure, but this is the complexity of intentionally hitting opponents. How can it be simultaneously encouraged and then condemned once something like this happens?

Edit: just to clarify, I’m still open minded about the incident. Like Rusty, I believe he went in there to hurt him, but I’m not sure he meant to hurt him to that extent. But how do you seperate those two things in a sport that actively encourages players fighting on the ice and smashing the granny out of each other with big hits? It feels so obvious that serious injury would occur at some point, just as it has in the past and will continue to do so moving forward.

Side note. There’s a brilliant documentary on Netflix called Ice Guardians, and it’s all about the enforcers of hockey (imagine a prime Roy Keane with nothing to lose) and what those players are willing to do, to not only keep their spot in the team, but be successful at it. Many of them are still suffering today despite hanging up the skates years ago. And it’s all down to the brutality of the sport.

(I know I’m coming across as though I’m bemoaning the savage nature of the sport, but I don’t mean to, I love it)

 

[rigsby]

That’s the complicated issue I was referring to. Trying to hit an opponent in ice hockey is common place. It’s encouraged. Everyone knows the potential risks it carries, but nevertheless it’s part and parcel of the sport.

This incident has crossed that line for sure, but this is the complexity of intentionally hitting opponents. How can it be simultaneously encouraged and then condemned once something like this happens?

Edit: just to clarify, I’m still open minded about the incident. Like Rusty, I believe he went in there to hurt him, but I’m not sure he meant to hurt him to that extent. But how do you seperate those two things in a sport that actively encourages players fighting on the ice and smashing the granny out of each other with big hits? It feels so obvious that serious injury would occur at some point, just as it has in the past and will continue to do so moving forward.

Side note. There’s a brilliant documentary on Netflix called Ice Guardians, and it’s all about the enforcers of hockey (imagine a prime Roy Keane with nothing to lose) and what those players are willing to do, to not only keep their spot in the team, but be successful at it. Many of them are still suffering today despite hanging up the skates years ago. And it’s all down to the brutality of the sport.

(I know I’m coming across as though I’m bemoaning the savage nature of the sport, but I don’t mean to, I love it)

I did see a similar doc about legendary enforcer from back in the day who was there to slug it out with his opposite number in the middle. Can't remember his name but he died young from what was basically prize fighting on ice.

Putting your studs in someone's knee is one thing but if you deliberately jumped and stuck them in a players neck... You know what your doing and can't moan if you end up in court when it ends up worse than you imagined.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I watched the footage and it does look a really unnatural movement.

I can only assume his flailing leg rode up Johnsons stick.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I am at Chelmsford v Streatham.

Most of Chelmsford team are not wearing neck guards. A fair few Streatham players are.

 

[Tribal Chief]

Petgrave now arrested for manslaughter. The more I look at the incident, the more I feel that this is the least he deserves.

 

[BoyWonder2]

Petgrave now arrested for manslaughter. The more I look at the incident, the more I feel that this is the least he deserves.

Beat me to it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67419951

 

[Mad Cyril]

Petgrave now arrested for manslaughter. The more I look at the incident, the more I feel that this is the least he deserves.

I have seen many interviews with UK and NHL players and there seems to be a lot of apprehension over any police investigation as if it will somehow water down the game.

Even though it is a physical game I feel the vast majority of players respect their opponents and would not do anything to endanger careers or lives.

It is a strange one.

 

[South Bank Hank]

Petgrave now arrested for manslaughter. The more I look at the incident, the more I feel that this is the least he deserves.

I’m curious, and respect your opinion as someone much, much closer to the sport than me. What do you think was Petgraves’ intention? What outcome do you think he was committing to? Was it way above what other “aggressive players” commit to?

None of these are loaded questions. Genuinely curious.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I’m curious, and respect your opinion as someone much, much closer to the sport than me. What do you think was Petgraves’ intention? What outcome do you think he was committing to? Was it way above what other “aggressive players” commit to?

None of these are loaded questions. Genuinely curious.

I think he was going for the chest with his skate and missed.

Only an opinion. I watch semi pro Ice hockey in the UK and many games are not filmed.

Even the top level UK games are streamed with a single camera. If this incident occurred in the NHL there would be multiple angles available from which to draw a conclusion.

 

[Ricey]

I think he was going for the chest with his skate and missed.

Only an opinion. I watch semi pro Ice hockey in the UK and many games are not filmed.

Even the top level UK games are streamed with a single camera. If this incident occurred in the NHL there would be multiple angles available from which to draw a conclusion.

That’s my thoughts too!

He intended to cause harm to Johnson you can see from his movement and body placement. Even in the grainy footage it’s clear as day he wanted to hurt him. From previous footage doing the rounds he has form for this too.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Petgrave now arrested for manslaughter. The more I look at the incident, the more I feel that this is the least he deserves.

Be interested to hear your extended thoughts on this.

I am a only a couple of years into my hockey fandom and this looks really out of place. Even at the level I follow the game players rarely stack it.

That said I have stacked it a lot more spectacularly than this.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

That’s my thoughts too!

He intended to cause harm to Johnson you can see from his movement and body placement. Even in the grainy footage it’s clear as day he wanted to hurt him. From previous footage doing the rounds he has form for this too.

In that case he has got his comeuppance, although obviously he didn't intend to end a fellow players life.

 

[Tribal Chief]

I’m curious, and respect your opinion as someone much, much closer to the sport than me. What do you think was Petgraves’ intention? What outcome do you think he was committing to? Was it way above what other “aggressive players” commit to?

None of these are loaded questions. Genuinely curious.

I think @Mad Cyril pretty much has it right. He was trying to do something beyond the usual bodycheck or even right hander. Players have been crippled from legitimate checks (and plenty of illegitimate ones) so going to another level just seems so unnecessary. Petgrave is an experienced player who was developed in the same junior system that produces most of the Canadian pros so he knows better - he wasn't some late convert to the game who could have got this wrong due to lack of experience. There was definitely a combination of awful coincidental factors that got the blade to Johnson's neck - he was knocked off balance and he seemed to ride up the stick somewhat but why is he lifting the skate in that situation at all?

 

[Tribal Chief]

I have seen many interviews with UK and NHL players and there seems to be a lot of apprehension over any police investigation as if it will somehow water down the game.

Even though it is a physical game I feel the vast majority of players respect their opponents and would not do anything to endanger careers or lives.

It is a strange one.

I get that about the police being involved - I used to have a season ticket to see the Prince George Spruce Kings in the BCHL which is a lower standard of junior hockey (average attendance around 900) but there was usually enough aggro on the ice and even in the stands to warrant a few arrests. But as it was hockey, as long as everyone could walk away under their own steam it was all good. I was giving a player from the Merritt Centennials plenty of grief during one game and when he was ejected, he came up into the stands to fight me! Poor wee lad was only about 5'6" and I was a lot younger and faster than I am now so he made a bit of a tit of himself. That said, we were all in the bar later enjoying a drink together.

 

[Mad Cyril]

I get that about the police being involved - I used to have a season ticket to see the Prince George Spruce Kings in the BCHL which is a lower standard of junior hockey (average attendance around 900) but there was usually enough aggro on the ice and even in the stands to warrant a few arrests. But as it was hockey, as long as everyone could walk away under their own steam it was all good. I was giving a player from the Merritt Centennials plenty of grief during one game and when he was ejected, he came up into the stands to fight me! Poor wee lad was only about 5'6" and I was a lot younger and faster than I am now so he made a bit of a tit of himself. That said, we were all in the bar later enjoying a drink together.

That's fantastic

 

[SeaSideDoughnut]

I didn't know there was a video circulating until I found this thread and read that others had seen it.

I didn't really want to watch but once you know it's out there it's hard to ignore. After watching it I'm more baffled than I was before.

 

[cerbera45]

I didn't know there was a video circulating until I found this thread and read that others had seen it.

I didn't really want to watch but once you know it's out there it's hard to ignore. After watching it I'm more baffled than I was before.

Baffled at what may I ask?

 

[SeaSideDoughnut]

Baffled at what may I ask?

Just by how high the skate was and how reckless it was.

Edit: maybe baffled is the wrong word, maybe shocked is right.