Plymouth go into Admin

[Smiffy]

Oh dear. Bad times.

See you next season chaps.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/9401625.stm

A 10 point deduction, will put them rock bottom on 23 points. 10 points adrift of safety. League Two beckons unless a miracle happens.

Championship to League Two in two seasons. Gotta feel for them. Could still easily be us....

 

[Beefy]

Jesus. They got rid of a load of players in January in a desperate attempt to avoid Admin. Guess they'd have been better off not bothering and keeping the likes of Noone & BWP on the books til the Summer.

Got to be pushing 60 football Administrations in 15 years now.

 

[Cricko]

This obviously stems from when Paul Sturrock was there and set them on the road to ruin.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

This obviously stems from when Paul Sturrock was there and set them on the road to ruin.

Maybe - but getting forcefed Argyle nonsense in my local paper reveals that most of the directors are like Ron or worse :winking:

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Maybe - but getting forcefed Argyle nonsense in my local paper reveals that most of the directors are like Ron or worse :winking:

No one can be worse than Ron, can they?After all he is the Devils spawn

 

[Gremlin]

Terrible news for Argyle but at least they had a guaranteed three points on Saturday towards their fight for survival. Exactly the opponents they would have wanted for their first home game since their points deduction.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Sad times for Argyle - from this article I'm not sure we will be seeing them next season...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2011/mar/02/plymouth-argyle-hmrc-administration-gardner

There, but for the grace of God, go SUFC too....

 

[Beefy]

I'd encourage every Southend fan to read that article. We're in a very similar position, albeit on a smaller scale.

 

[Cricko]

I'd encourage every Southend fan to read that article. We're in a very similar position, albeit on a smaller scale.

Their wage bill is an absolute joke!

 

[Beefy]

Their wage bill is an absolute joke!

It's ridiculous. The article is slightly misleading because it says it was 7.4m in their 2009 accounts but had risen to 8.5m, implying that that is what it is now. That simply cannot, possible, surely be right? Although if it's true that they need 610k for one month's wages then its only dropped to 7.3m. Basically they are paying out more than five times our wagebill on gates less than twice ours. And we can't pay our wagebill.

The article makes the point that Administration isn't a magic solution; the Club will still need to somehow find that 610k every month, and the tax on that and every other bill that they have to pay. We'd be in the same position.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Sheffield Wednesday's wage bill is, I believe, higher than Plymouth's... I vaguely remember that they're wage bill for this season is circa £8-10m. Their income is obviously higher, but £8-10m is a stupidly unfeasible bill for League One football and only serves to demonstrate why clubs much like Plymouth and ourselves get into messes of this scale.

 

[Beefy]

Wednesday added hugely to their wagebill following relegation so I've got even less sympathy for their position. The likes of Neil Mellor and Clinton Morrison were signed in the summer on big money and then after several months of major money problems they go and buy Gary Madine in January who I doubt left Carlisle for peanuts.

Plymouth have at least been trying to slash their outgoings, and we've been the beneficiaries of that with Barker. Noone got almost given to Brighton, BWP scored a dozen goals and was then offered around to anyone who'd give them 100k for him, they tried to push Fallon onto Ipswich. As we found last year though it's difficult to get rid of players who have decent contracts because you've got to find someone to take them over.

 

[Cricko]

Sheffield Wednesday's wage bill is, I believe, higher than Plymouth's... I vaguely remember that they're wage bill for this season is circa £8-10m. Their income is obviously higher, but £8-10m is a stupidly unfeasible bill for League One football and only serves to demonstrate why clubs much like Plymouth and ourselves get into messes of this scale.

I agree, but this all stems from the Prem down and the absolutely absurd wages they pay players..The knock on effect is killing clubs by the bucket load now...I expect more to follow Plymouth.

 

[Beefy]

I agree, but this all stems from the Prem down and the absolutely absurd wages they pay players..The knock on effect is killing clubs by the bucket load now...I expect more to follow Plymouth.

No one forced Plymouth to pay those wages. The Premier League aren't to blame for what has happened to Plymouth, Sheffield Wednesday or ourselves.

It's this lack of responsibility which annoys me so much. The comments section of that Guardian piece included the inevitable line which you always hear about how "no set of fans deserve this". And yet the Plymouth fans would have spent months and years cheering on players who they couldn't really afford and celebrating victories over teams who were living within their means.

Football fans, almost as much as football directors, need to realise that the 'Keeping up with the Joneses' culture which runs through English football is going to be the death of it.

 

[Cricko]

Fans wanting success is natural, most do not hear of the troubles until it is to late.....We might as well all be part time teams with no aspirations...Wages and agents are the cause of this and the Prem's example helps nobody.

 

[Kenny]

Peter Risdale is at Plymouth? - where he goes financial problems usally aren't too far behind!

 

[Beefy]

To be fair to him, this time wasn't his fault.

 

[Smiffy]

I like this quote, shows exactly why they are in trouble:

"Can it really be true that the yearly wage bill to pay the players is 7.4 million pounds?, how many players does the club need?.
I work it out that if Plymouth have 30 full-time players that equates to an average salary of 248,000 pounds per player. 40 full time players equates to an average salary of 186,000 pounds per player.

Then this is compounded by the cost of employing 60 other staff at a cost of 1.5 million pounds a year, which equates to an average salary of 24,000 pounds per employee.

This is madness, irresponsible & unsupportable."

So, if Argyle have say 30 players. That means on average, each of them are on nearly £5k a week. Similar to us, It looks like they committed to long term and big contracts with a lot of players. Not thinking of the consequences of dropping out of the Championship. Now, they are quite literally ****ed.

I cannot see anyone coming up with the £5m? they need to keep afloat this season. Sad to say, I think they are finished.

 

[Beefy]

It's worse if you break it down as the article does. With player wages, staff wages, PAYE on those wages, VAT, police costs, ground maintenance and other running costs they have £1.5m going out of their cashflow every single month. All they have coming in is a few thousand (4,000 max) non-season ticket holders buying tickets a couple of times a month, meaning at most they bring in £120,000 on an average month. Obviously that is almost £1.4m in cash going out of the business. But even if they ran a wagebill like we do then it still wouldn't be covered by the amount of cash that they bring in. A case like this where the numbers are so large sees the problem getting brought to a head sooner than it might otherwise happen, but the underlying problem is there for all clubs.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Wigan Athletic in a spot of bother - http://www.timesplus.co.uk/tto/news...otball/clubs/wiganathletic/article2932015.ece

It's behind the paywall, but the jist of it is that the auditors for Wigan's accounts have said there is material uncertainty over the club's future as a going concern, similar wording to what has been attached to our accounts over the last decade or so. Without Whelan's money, they're nothing more than a Championship club.