Season looks set to end in chaos

[secondalibi]

From the Guardian website.....

Late Leeds decision set to wreak havoc

Matt Scott
Friday April 18, 2008
The Guardian

Sir Philip Otton last night indicated that Leeds United and the Football League would have to wait up to four weeks for his arbitration verdict, a move which threatens to cast the League One season's final stages into chaos.
The Elland Road club are challenging a 15-point penalty imposed by the league for their failure to comply with insolvency rules and Otton, an experienced football arbitrator, is chairing a three-man panel on the issue.

BBC Radio Leeds last night reported that the hearing will extend to a fourth day on Monday for all submissions to be heard; Otton will deliver his judgment "three or four weeks" later. A May 12 return would wreak havoc for the teams in the top six because the regular season ends on May 4, with the Wembley final three weeks later.

- G

 

[OldBlueLady]

Can't see how they can possibly allow that. Clubs in the play offs have to make plans and tickets/programmes etc have to be printed, there simply wouldn't be time if it was left that late. If he can't deliver his verdict in time for the end of the season then surely it rolls over to next, and if anything is to be given back they start next season in a plus position. There would be uproar if the clubs in L1 this year can't finish their season at the right time pending the appeal.

 

[steveo]

Another footballing fiasco. As we all know in four weeks time all the teams will be getting ready for the play offs and the promoted teams will be making plans for next season.
If they get the points back expect an appeal from Doncaster or Swansea, depending who goes up or doesnt go up, dragging the situation out even further.
Article on Sky Sports form the Doncaster bloke who has a point:

""We would review our position then and at this stage are not sure what our options will be. Leeds agreed not to appeal against the 15-point deduction, but have gone ahead and done it."

Perhaps this season will last forever.

 

[Tinks]

Nothing would surprise me that involves KB seems to think that sometimes he is a law unto himself.
It would be grossly unfair for them to be given any points back this season and if the do win the appeal then the returned points should only be effective from next season.
Cannot see other teams in a promotion chance taking this on the chin

 

[Boreham Shrimper]

Let's hope they get 5 points back and that we can stuff them in the playoff final then! :finger:

 

[Mick]

Nothing would surprise me that involves KB seems to think that sometimes he is a law unto himself.
It would be grossly unfair for them to be given any points back this season and if the do win the appeal then the returned points should only be effective from next season.
Cannot see other teams in a promotion chance taking this on the chin

Not as easy as that. I can think of the odd Championship team or two (or 23) who would not accept starting 15 points behind Leeds if they go up.

 

[dloman]

Can't see how they can possibly allow that. Clubs in the play offs have to make plans and tickets/programmes etc have to be printed, there simply wouldn't be time if it was left that late. If he can't deliver his verdict in time for the end of the season then surely it rolls over to next, and if anything is to be given back they start next season in a plus position. There would be uproar if the clubs in L1 this year can't finish their season at the right time pending the appeal.

I think you may well of hit the nail on the head there. My feeling is they will get all 15 points back but from the start of next season which would then have no bearing on this one.

 

[ShrimplyTheBest]

I think you may well of hit the nail on the head there. My feeling is they will get all 15 points back but from the start of next season which would then have no bearing on this one.

Has that ever happened before?! Has a team ever started the season on a positive amount of points without kicking a ball???

Not sure I've heard of it... I'm sure they can't give them any more than 5 points back! I would be shocked if they gave them extra points for next year!!!

 

[SARF]

Perhaps this season will last forever.

So we will be in Fossets this season after all!!!
I cant see them giving 15 points next season without there being uproar in this league or the championship .. Its almost amusing to watch this as we are probably the least affected team along with forest.. At worst for us it means we lose home advantge in the second leg

 

[Boreham Shrimper]

I think you may well of hit the nail on the head there. My feeling is they will get all 15 points back but from the start of next season which would then have no bearing on this one.

My inclination is that if they get any points back it will be this season. Transferring the points to any possible promotion to the Championship or next season's League 1 campaign would not go down well at all with clubs who would have nothing to do with the 15 point penalty and would undoubtedly lead to yet more legal challenges.

Unfortunately, the fact that it has been extended to a 4th day of evidence seems to suggest to me that Leeds may have a strong case. If the panel thought that Leeds did not have much of a case, I would have expected the case to be thrown out within the first couple of days. In fact there are rumours that the League's lawyers have asked for the hearing to be extended so that they can go back and prepare a more effective submission.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

I am guessing though if the decision is deferred until Mon 12 May, as mentioned, this is going to cause issues with getting the playoff semis played in time for the scheduled final on May 25.

It will make the playoffs even more of a lottery if teams are inactive for approx 2 weeks after the final game of the season on May 3!

 

[toellandback]

Nothing would surprise me that involves KB seems to think that sometimes he is a law unto himself.
It would be grossly unfair for them to be given any points back this season and if the do win the appeal then the returned points should only be effective from next season.
Cannot see other teams in a promotion chance taking this on the chin

As a Leeds fan i am not a huge fan of Ken Bates however this is one of the only things he is blameless of. The football league allowed this to drag on too long as they misjudged our case. What would you want your chairman to do if this was you. We more than anyone don't want this to drag on as we have had a summer of it. We had a full summer of not knowing whether our club would exist yet alone compete this season. We had a squad of about 12 pros for the pre-season tour and could only sign players 1 week before the start of the season.
This isn't just about us though because as things stand any club that can't get their CVA and has to be given their Golden share by the football league will be deducted 15 points. We are lucky at Leeds that we have enough resources and a big enough fan base to pull us through it but what about League 2 clubs who face being docked 25points in 1 season? That would put most out of the football league.

 

[Cricko]

As a Leeds fan i am not a huge fan of Ken Bates however this is one of the only things he is blameless of. The football league allowed this to drag on too long as they misjudged our case. What would you want your chairman to do if this was you. We more than anyone don't want this to drag on as we have had a summer of it. We had a full summer of not knowing whether our club would exist yet alone compete this season. We had a squad of about 12 pros for the pre-season tour and could only sign players 1 week before the start of the season.
This isn't just about us though because as things stand any club that can't get their CVA and has to be given their Golden share by the football league will be deducted 15 points. We are lucky at Leeds that we have enough resources and a big enough fan base to pull us through it but what about League 2 clubs who face being docked 25points in 1 season? That would put most out of the football league.

Yes the amount of other companies that KB put out of business with his usual I don't care about anybody else attitude must be over the moon for you all...

 

[sufcintheprem]

This is a shambles. If we ran our business like this, we'd all be fired.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

As a Leeds fan i am not a huge fan of Ken Bates however this is one of the only things he is blameless of. The football league allowed this to drag on too long as they misjudged our case. What would you want your chairman to do if this was you. We more than anyone don't want this to drag on as we have had a summer of it. We had a full summer of not knowing whether our club would exist yet alone compete this season. We had a squad of about 12 pros for the pre-season tour and could only sign players 1 week before the start of the season.
This isn't just about us though because as things stand any club that can't get their CVA and has to be given their Golden share by the football league will be deducted 15 points. We are lucky at Leeds that we have enough resources and a big enough fan base to pull us through it but what about League 2 clubs who face being docked 25points in 1 season? That would put most out of the football league.

are you familiar with the term you reap what you sow? If more Leeds fans had the bollocks to tell Bates he's wrong then you might not be in this situation. I've absolutely NO sympathy and if there's any justice the 15 points will stand and Leeds be told to pay all the costs of the appeal.
PS you should have also been told to start again at the bottom of the pyramid. That just might tell clubs to behave or take the consequences.

 

[Boreham Shrimper]

As a Leeds fan i am not a huge fan of Ken Bates however this is one of the only things he is blameless of. The football league allowed this to drag on too long as they misjudged our case. What would you want your chairman to do if this was you. We more than anyone don't want this to drag on as we have had a summer of it. We had a full summer of not knowing whether our club would exist yet alone compete this season. We had a squad of about 12 pros for the pre-season tour and could only sign players 1 week before the start of the season.
This isn't just about us though because as things stand any club that can't get their CVA and has to be given their Golden share by the football league will be deducted 15 points. We are lucky at Leeds that we have enough resources and a big enough fan base to pull us through it but what about League 2 clubs who face being docked 25points in 1 season? That would put most out of the football league.

Oh yes thanks Leeds for all that you have done for the cause of league football. We all owe you a huge debt of gratitude and are not worthy of your presence in this lowly league. :madman:

Nothing personal mate, but that is completely irrelevant and you just know that this disruptive appeals process would not be happening if it were Wrexham for example. They would have been out of business long ago.

 

[fatshrimp]

Couple of things are in the back of my mind, not necessarily relating to the hearing but about this situation in general.

1) I wonder where Leeds would be if they weren't deducted the 15points in the first place? Would they have had the determination to drag themselves to the top without this hanging over them and their 'Fukk you' attitude?

2) If, and it's a big if, Southend were ever in this situation (and we can never truly rule it our - if you know what I mean), who wouldn't want our board to fight tooth and nail to reclaim any points.

I'm making no statements about or defence of Leeds here, but just airing some general thoughts.

 

[loz]

well said people. Leeds fans have a tendency to forget that we have memories slightly more efficient than a sieve, and can recall them taking administration as soon as they knew they were down last year, specifically to avoid getting any penalties this season. Their plan didn't work, and I don't see why it should be allowed to now. If the 15-point penalty was really such a hideous injustice, then , i dunno, perhaps they shouldn't have signed off on it in the first place?

 

[Pubey]

if the league had finished, wouldn't they just re-issue any points next season?! this is all a complete farce

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

2) If, and it's a big if, Southend were ever in this situation (and we can never truly rule it our - if you know what I mean), who wouldn't want our board to fight tooth and nail to reclaim any points.

If our board had done this there would be a boycott until they resigned. I say this with total conviction and no irony. Leeds fans have given Bates the means to drag their club through the mud because of their misguided loyalty.