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Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 2-1 MK Dons

Interesting stuff! I don't think Barrett is our top earner, he signed a long term deal for security, Clarke was on more, week by week, as were Revell and Mildenhall. Am not denying Dougie is probably on a par with them but he's really not on the massive wages some seem to think. I believe Macca and Franno are below these incidentally.
 
Interesting stuff! I don't think Barrett is our top earner, he signed a long term deal for security, Clarke was on more, week by week, as were Revell and Mildenhall. Am not denying Dougie is probably on a par with them but he's really not on the massive wages some seem to think. I believe Macca and Franno are below these incidentally.

I forgot Revell and Mildenhall, I knew they where quite well paid as well.

Like I say, I'm going by what someone told me, and as I've shown his been wrong as many times as his been right so I take everything he says with a pinch of salt, hence why I don't start threads about it.
 
I very much doubt the £5K story, and I doubt Huddersfield would be offering an average L1 player £10K a week even with their wealthy owners.

From what I've heard Clarkey was our top earning but was around the £3K mark, with players like Barrett, Macca and Francis over £2K, and Freedman has come in alongside the top earners, but Barrett is actually the top earner. Like I say though, this is what I've heard. The same guy told me about Barnard signing for us, Sawyer was going back to Chelsea and Leon Clarke wouldn't be joining us after his loan spell. He has also told me that Dervite would sign last week on loan, Jeffers was joining us on loan and that Barnard would be signing a double your wages deal for another 3 seasons.

Two out of the three above would be brilliant news, lets hope Uncle Ron & Tilly can make them happen.
Don't think I'd be mad about Jeffers coming - not sure what he would bring to the party, but that's another story;) (alledgedly of course)
 
Two out of the three above would be brilliant news, lets hope Uncle Ron & Tilly can make them happen.
Don't think I'd be mad about Jeffers coming - not sure what he would bring to the party, but that's another story;) (alledgedly of course)

I don't think either of them 3 stories will be happening unfortunately, was just showing how this guy has been right and wrong before.
 
Hence why if Ipswich DO bid for Barney in January we have to accept it but try and get as much as we can. Hopefully then at least some of any fee received can be spent on a permanent replacement who can do the business.

I doubt anybody will make a bid for Barnard in January.

He will be out of contract at the end of the season and will walk away on a free so why would they?

He might get a move to a Championship team, but will probably end up at a L1 team, good striker but, not quick enough for the Championship.
 
I doubt anybody will make a bid for Barnard in January.

He will be out of contract at the end of the season and will walk away on a free so why would they?

He might get a move to a Championship team, but will probably end up at a L1 team, good striker but, not quick enough for the Championship.

I can see plenty of teams sniffing around him in January, Ipswich being one of them. They need a goalscorer, and Barnard is exactly that. They won't be able to afford the likes of Beckford or Rhodes so will go for Barnard knowing they'd be able to get him cheaper than the others because of his contract, and our financial plight.

If Ipswich are still struggling come January, I imagine Tilson or Martin will have a phone call, or fax, from Ipswich wishing to talk about Barnard.
 
I doubt anybody will make a bid for Barnard in January.

He will be out of contract at the end of the season and will walk away on a free so why would they?

He might get a move to a Championship team, but will probably end up at a L1 team, good striker but, not quick enough for the Championship.

Not serious are you? Barney has improved beyond all recognition, he's not had any fitness issues at all so far and his strength and stamina are massively improved. He could cut it at CCC as he is now, no doubt about that.
 
I think this sentence sums the debate up. The truth is that no-one really knows what the players are paid or how deals come about. It's all pure speculation unless you actually have access to a payslip.


Going back to Freedman, surely no-one can deny that he was brilliant when he first joined us: he scored four goals in his first five appearances and was pulling defences apart. You can't then blame Ron or anyone else for the fact he was subsequently crocked against Orient and has struggled since. That's bad luck.


Self-righteous nonsense. If we'd played with 10 men last night we'd have got absolutely spanked. MK are an excellent footballing side and with only 10 players their defenders would have had ample time to bring the forward, pull our midfield out of shape and cut us open. As I said earlier, both Barney and Freedman worked hard and defended very well from the front last night, particularly in the second half, and it helped us to reduce the supply line to their flair players.

It's basic maths. Honestly there is no trickery involved. I've copied this from a previous thread.

RM stated in one of his blogs that Clarkey cost upwards of £1m over 3 seasons. RM ALSO said that wages didn't differ too greatly between players. Nowhere's the maths;

How much did we sign Clarkey for? 200k? 300k?

If he's cost us upwards of £1m, divide (just for example sake) 700K by 156 (his 3 year contract) and you get 4.5K

Then roughly 52k for VAT (transfer fee) and 30k for agent fees makes 82k. Round it up to £100k (for all the other add-ons/excuses people wanna make etc.)

So 600k divided by 156 still puts Clarkey on £3845 p/w inc. bonuses, BUT that's if he cost bang on £1m. RM said upward, so it could have been more than that by a considerable margain, as OBL said


Yep Freedman was decent in his 1st few games, and really looked like he could cut this league apart. BUT, since then, whether you blame it on bad luck, injuries or the weather, he has been nowhere near capable enough of doing the business in this league. Even Tilly tried to bomb him out in January, but no other club wanted him!! Don't you think you (not just you, all the other Freedman Fanatics) should question your opinion about the guy, if Tilly was trying to ship him out?


Last bit, self righteous nonsense? Why? Because you don't agree with it? Please explain exactly what freedman did last night? It was like playing with 10 men. The guy is past it, and more and more people are (finally) realising it
 
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Nik, Dougie was no more a pedestrain last night than Moussa and no-one is calling for the same kind of punishment for him. Honestly, I firmly believe the figure I quoted fpr Clarke is correct, and Dougie is way, way, WAY behind that.
 
Yep Freedman was decent in his 1st few games, and really looked like he could cut this league apart. BUT, since then, whether you blame it on bad luck, injuries or the weather, he has been nowhere near capable enough of doing the business in this league. Even Tilly tried to bomb him out in January, but no other club wanted him!! Don't you think you (not just you, all the other Freedman Fanatics) should question your opinion about the guy, if Tilly was trying to ship him out?

Tilson never tried to "bomb him out" in January, it was this summer, around the time Revell and Betsy went out on loan.

Freedman hasn't been able to reproduce the form he showed when he first joined us, but at times he has proved to be a cut above everything we have. Just look at his through ball to Barnard on Friday night when Barnard rounded the keeper and scored, even though it was offside. Just look at his goal last season against Bristol Rovers when he lifted the ball over the advancing goal keeper and just look at his back heel that set up Barnard's goal up against Bristol Rovers.
 
Nik, Dougie was no more a pedestrain last night than Moussa and no-one is calling for the same kind of punishment for him. Honestly, I firmly believe the figure I quoted fpr Clarke is correct, and Dougie is way, way, WAY behind that.

Yep Moussa was way below par yesterday, but how many times has that happened? Rarely. Also, i'm not calling for any punishment for DF lol!! I'm just saying he is a terrible drain on funds.

I believe that DF is one of the top wage earners. I can't see it being 5k, but it really wouldn't surprise me. As me and you have agreed previously, the top earners will be Baz, DF, Mildy, Franno, Macca and Revs and Clarke when they were here. If PC was on that money, then i can definitly see these players all being around that mark, give or take a few hundred quid, because, as St.Ron said, "the wages won't differ to much between the players"
 
Tilson never tried to "bomb him out" in January, it was this summer, around the time Revell and Betsy went out on loan.

Freedman hasn't been able to reproduce the form he showed when he first joined us, but at times he has proved to be a cut above everything we have. Just look at his through ball to Barnard on Friday night when Barnard rounded the keeper and scored, even though it was offside. Just look at his goal last season against Bristol Rovers when he lifted the ball over the advancing goal keeper and just look at his back heel that set up Barnard's goal up against Bristol Rovers.

My bad, not really paying attention :dim:

Do you firmly believe he is worthy of his wages though? If given the option of 2-3 new players, or Freedman signing on for 1-2 more years what would you choose?
 
I can see plenty of teams sniffing around him in January, Ipswich being one of them. They need a goalscorer, and Barnard is exactly that. They won't be able to afford the likes of Beckford or Rhodes so will go for Barnard knowing they'd be able to get him cheaper than the others because of his contract, and our financial plight.

If Ipswich are still struggling come January, I imagine Tilson or Martin will have a phone call, or fax, from Ipswich wishing to talk about Barnard.


As i mentioned earlier Roy Keane was in the directors box for the match, though Barnard put in a good shift I doubt Roy Keane will be bidding for him based on that display
 
Yep Freedman was decent in his 1st few games, and really looked like he could cut this league apart. BUT, since then, whether you blame it on bad luck, injuries or the weather, he has been nowhere near capable enough of doing the business in this league. Even Tilly tried to bomb him out in January, but no other club wanted him!! Don't you think you (not just you, all the other Freedman Fanatics) should question your opinion about the guy, if Tilly was trying to ship him out?
I'm not suggesting Freedman is anywhere near the player he was when he first signed and for what it's worth, I do think we need more options up front as he doesn't have the legs to start every game now. However, he still has enough quality to hurt teams, as both Boy Wonder and myself have pointed out using various examples, so he's still a vital squad member - not least because he's a different style of forward to anyone else at the club.

Last bit, self righteous nonsense? Why? Because you don't agree with it? Please explain exactly what freedman did last night? It was like playing with 10 men. The guy is past it, and more and more people are (finally) realising it
I'm sorry but suggesting we'd be better off playing with 10 men is self-righteous; it's an absolutely absurd opinion. Look at last week. We had a player sent off and were battered for the rest of the game. This was Yeovil. MK would have absolutely hammered us.

Look, I'm not suggesting Freedman had a blinder last night, far from it. However, his intelligent movement and ability to drop into deeper positions - regardless of whether he actually received the ball - meant that an opposition defender or midfielder had to go with him and that gave them a problem and allowed us space to play in other areas as they couldn't maintain their shape at the back. Now imagine if Freedman didn't play; that would leave Barnard totally isolated up front, allow MK's back four to remain constantly in tact and all the time in the world to start attacks.

Whatever you think of Freedman, suggesting that a numerical disadvantage over 90 minutes against a side like MK would be preferable is ridiculous.
 
Nik, Dougie was no more a pedestrain last night than Moussa and no-one is calling for the same kind of punishment for him. Honestly, I firmly believe the figure I quoted fpr Clarke is correct, and Dougie is way, way, WAY behind that.
I completely agree with you about Moussa. I like him as a player but he is off form at the moment and was part of the problem in the misuse of Freedman by his colleagues. Francis and Moussa in particular kept giving long high balls for Freedman to chase when we know that he needs the ball on the floor, ideally in front of him. Freedman got really fed up at one point and took to gesturing at Moussa to indicate the ball that was needed. Moussa first touch was good when the ball was punted up to him on the left but was very wasteful in possession.

Ratings:

Mildenhall: 9 Our player of the season so far IMHO. Looked in control throughout. I am surprised that someone blamed him for the goal - he and Barrett were on their own. Gets down so quickly for a big man - great save in the first half. Good distribution too.

Herd: 7 OK, he did get caught out positionally a couple of times but I was really pleased with him. He showed that he should be the corner taker of choice from the right, bending the ball in with his left foot. He puts much more pace on the ball than Moussa or Francis. Good free kicks too. I didn't think his throw-ins were as good as usual but he is well balanced when he runs at players.

Barrett: 8 I thought he did really well. He is often criticised for committing himself too early in defence but he was the only one who saw the danger for MK Donut's first goal - unfortunately, he ended up outnumbered. He ran well from deep too. I was particularly impressed with his captaincy when he got Grant away from Puncheon avoiding a likely second yellow.

Francis: 6.5 I understand why Tilly played him in central defense (extra height) but the constant chopping and changing in this position worries me and caused us major problems in the first hour. I think it was Francis' missed tackle that was largely responsible for the first goal. As I've already said, he kept launching long balls for Freedman as soon as he got the ball. However, he improved and got to grips with their attack rather well later on.

Grant: 7 Played well on the whole, reading the game effectively as usual although he was at fault for the goal, coming inside and missing his man.

Moussa: 5 See above

Christophe: 7 Did pretty well - worked really hard. I was so sorry that the goal was an o.g. - it's goals from midfield that we have been missing this season and he weighed in with a fair few last year. Won the pen as well.

Macca: 7 I am surprised that he has received so much criticism today. I thought he was the major reason why we got to grips with the midfield. His shooting is a problem but no one knows it more than him. He was visibly extremely cross with himself when he missed the better of the two chances he got.

Laurent: 8 Exciting to watch, repeatedly turning Lewington. I loved the moment where he took the ball from Scannell, who was dithering, and ran straight through their defense. As others have said, he must work on his final ball.

Barnard: 7 Didn't get much of the ball but forced several throw-ins in good positions by hounding their right back. Seems to have got faster. Showed incredible composure as usual on the pen.

Freedman: 6 Didn't get much of a sniff really. Put in a lovely ball for Barnard, who was just offside, and then got in a great position on the right wing when the referee missed the opportunity for a clear advantage and called the ball back. As I've said, we are not playing to his strengths.

Scannell: 6 Brought some much-needed pace to the front line and pushed them back. He MUST improve his awareness though - he missed another great chance for a one-two with Laurent because his head was down.

I love last minute goals - what a feeling at the end!
 
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I'm not suggesting Freedman is anywhere near the player he was when he first signed and for what it's worth, I do think we need more options up front as he doesn't have the legs to start every game now. However, he still has enough quality to hurt teams, as both Boy Wonder and myself have pointed out using various examples, so he's still a vital squad member - not least because he's a different style of forward to anyone else at the club.


I'm sorry but suggesting we'd be better off playing with 10 men is self-righteous; it's an absolutely absurd opinion. Look at last week. We had a player sent off and were battered for the rest of the game. This was Yeovil. MK would have absolutely hammered us.

Look, I'm not suggesting Freedman had a blinder last night, far from it. However, his intelligent movement and ability to drop into deeper positions - regardless of whether he actually received the ball - meant that an opposition defender or midfielder had to go with him and that gave them a problem and allowed us space to play in other areas as they couldn't maintain their shape at the back. Now imagine if Freedman didn't play; that would leave Barnard totally isolated up front, allow MK's back four to remain constantly in tact and all the time in the world to start attacks.

Whatever you think of Freedman, suggesting that a numerical disadvantage over 90 minutes against a side like MK would be preferable is ridiculous.


Okay, let me pose you 3 questions and give your honest answer. In fact i pose these to everyone;

1) Peter Clarke was on high wages. DF will be on a par with that level of wages, give or take a few hundred quid. Is he worth these high wages?

2) Tilly wanted to send him out on loan. No-one wanted him. Are you suggesting Tilly doesn't know best? If he was still worth having in the squad, why would Tilly WANT to send him out?

3) It's the end of the season, you ar the chairman. What do you do - Offer DF a new 1-2 year contract on the same wages, OR release him and bring in 2 maybe 3 new players?
 
It's basic maths. Honestly there is no trickery involved. I've copied this from a previous thread.

RM stated in one of his blogs that Clarkey cost upwards of £1m over 3 seasons. RM ALSO said that wages didn't differ too greatly between players. Nowhere's the maths;


If he's cost us upwards of £1m, divide (just for example sake) 700K by 156 (his 3 year contract) and you get 4.5K

And you believe anything RM has said?

I think the maths is wrong as well - one of the years was a leap year.

When RM said the wages didn't differ much perhaps that was when he wasn't paying them.
 
It's basic maths. Honestly there is no trickery involved. I've copied this from a previous thread.

RM stated in one of his blogs that Clarkey cost upwards of £1m over 3 seasons. RM ALSO said that wages didn't differ too greatly between players. Nowhere's the maths;

How much did we sign Clarkey for? 200k? 300k?

If he's cost us upwards of £1m, divide (just for example sake) 700K by 156 (his 3 year contract) and you get 4.5K

Then roughly 52k for VAT (transfer fee) and 30k for agent fees makes 82k. Round it up to £100k (for all the other add-ons/excuses people wanna make etc.)

So 600k divided by 156 still puts Clarkey on £3845 p/w inc. bonuses, BUT that's if he cost bang on £1m. RM said upward, so it could have been more than that by a considerable margain, as OBL said

Basic salary £3800 per week. Minus his goal bonuses, clean sheet bonuses + win bonuses. Monies paid out for insurance. Cost of pension (not sure if our footballers pensions are contibuted towards by the club, but if they are it will be a significant chunk of £3800).

I'm not saying you are not correct, you may well be, but RM sometimes seems to have an ability to spin the truth in his own favour. For all we know the £1m includes hotel fees for away matches, kit, meals etc. He may even be including a percentage of coaching staff costs to help train him. i.e. RM may be basing his costs on the true expenditure that PC cost us.

As for dougie, he has played very well since he joined us, but looked poor in the last month to me. Maybe he's now too old to play at this level, maybe he's having a dip in form, but most likely he likes the ball played to feet more than we have been doing recently
 
Then roughly 52k for VAT (transfer fee) and 30k for agent fees makes 82k. Round it up to £100k (for all the other add-ons/excuses people wanna make etc.)

Basic salary £3800 per week. Minus his goal bonuses, clean sheet bonuses + win bonuses. Monies paid out for insurance. Cost of pension (not sure if our footballers pensions are contibuted towards by the club, but if they are it will be a significant chunk of £3800).

For all we know the £1m includes hotel fees for away matches, kit, meals etc. He may even be including a percentage of coaching staff costs to help train him. i.e. RM may be basing his costs on the true expenditure that PC cost us.

I thought i was quite generous rounding it up to £100k, TBH. All those things mentioned should come under that 'other add-ons/other excuses' section :)
 
I thought i was quite generous rounding it up to £100k, TBH. All those things mentioned should come under that 'other add-ons/other excuses' section :)


If RM wasn't spinning too much, this article (from 2006 - there may be a more recent one!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4898392.stm suggests average CCC players earn £196k per year - which may be close to PC's salary by your maths. It does suggest that L1 players earn an average of £68k - so that would suggest to me that Dougie would not be earning as much as PC, unless Ron had a bad day at the office.
 

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