Supporters Forum 22nd Sept - Sainsbury Pulling Out?

[Jam_Man]

Great update on that point Wes, thanks.

 

[Beefy]

can somebody post please? I'm in china for a while and wont be there on Saturday

Part time fan.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I still can't believe what he said about Timlin.

I know something you don't know is back!:winking:

One question that was asked was around Coulthirst's (and Woodrow's) contract, I should mention this was asked after Brown volunteered the story around taking Williams to Bury City, and being really impressed with Williams insight into the game from a viewing position. He said the criteria when he looks to loan a player out, Standard, Playing Time and one other that escapes me, I think money. He specifies that his player plays the first game, so the manager gets to see his player, and what the player is capable of. Afterwards, it's down to the manager's discretion over whether the player plays or not.

When Brown identifies players that he would like to bring on loan, it's not him that strikes the agreement over the contract with the owning club, it's Kavanagh. And in the interest of the club, Steve always tries to get a reudction on the wage contribution should the player be playing and performing well. The example he used was Britt Assombalonga, and how we were an integral part of his development, but received no financial reward for the developement, he recognised the on the pitch reward.

So when he looks at loanee contract, he loks to get our financial reward for the duration of the spell, i.e. if the player is playing well, and getting game time, we get a reduction in our wage contribution. However, if he's not performing, THERE IS NO OBLIGATION AT ALL to play him, not for one minute, 20 minutes or 90 minutes. But we pay the agreed wage contribution if he doesn't play regularly, which is within our budget. Steve negotiated the same deal for Loza, and a better one (although not specified how) for Woodrow. But any player Brown signs on loan, is played purely on merit.

Hopefully this will put an end to made up conspiracy theories around game time being bandied around as fact.

Sadly, more like it'll mean it's an end to this one, and a new one will surface next time we don't win.

I'll try and add other bits from last night throughout the day*.

*When work stops getting in the way.

So as expected then. No obligation but a financial incentive for the club to play them, which when you are a cash strapped club like Southend can mean the finance director/Kavanagh/Ron standing over the manager when he fills in the team sheet saying how gates are down this month but you will be playing the loanee, won't you? Or if you want that new signing it would be pretty helpful if you play the loanee instead of our own kid.

In the interest of balance, I should also point out that they will likely have similar conversations about players contracted to us, depending on bonuses or things in their contract. Managers may be leant on to ease out a higher earner (maybe like a Laird?) in favour of a cheaper younger player, asked to rest someone if it would otherwise trigger a clause in their contract.

Brown won't admit to this type of stuff until he's planning his exit. Even then he might realise that future employers value discretion in their staff.

 

[united we stand]

I know something you don't know is back!:winking:



So as expected then. No obligation but a financial incentive for the club to play them, which when you are a cash strapped club like Southend can mean the finance director/Kavanagh/Ron standing over the manager when he fills in the team sheet saying how gates are down this month but you will be playing the loanee, won't you? Or if you want that new signing it would be pretty helpful if you play the loanee instead of our own kid.

In the interest of balance, I should also point out that they will likely have similar conversations about players contracted to us, depending on bonuses or things in their contract. Managers may be leant on to ease out a higher earner (maybe like a Laird?) in favour of a cheaper younger player, asked to rest someone if it would otherwise trigger a clause in their contract.

Brown won't admit to this type of stuff until he's planning his exit. Even then he might realise that future employers value discretion in their staff.

re the highlighted piece. I really can't see that happening. I understand I might be wrong I really can't agree. From a fiance perspective the amounts involved are simply not significant enough for this to com into play. I can't see an experienced manager like Brown agreeing to it, it also gives him a 'get out of jail card' if things go badly as he can 'blame' results on picking that player. Finally and most important of all the quote in the post was black and white to me and should be the end of the debate

' But any player Brown signs on loan, is played purely on merit'.

 

[tottenham541]

I can't believe we are will to sell Bentley for 60 million either, that well made me angry:winking: nice to know they rate Payne highly and won't let him leave for next to nothing, and did say we are not a selling club which is nice to hear also:thumbsup:

 

[Smiffy]

Any answers regarding FF?

Or was it the standard "I don't know"....."things progressing nicely"....."will put your questions to Ron and come back to you" responses?

 

[tottenham541]

Any answers regarding FF?

Or was it the standard "I don't know"....."things progressing nicely"....."will put your questions to Ron and come back to you" responses?

same old thing on ff, only Ron Martin knows where we stand right now on this and him alone, he was invited to make a apperance last night as well but didn't want to show his face, no surprise eh:'(

 

[Greebosan]

Any answers regarding FF?

Or was it the standard "I don't know"....."things progressing nicely"....."will put your questions to Ron and come back to you" responses?

Our site is still under review by Sainsburys, who have concluded a lot of these reviews, but not ours. We are waiting for the outcome of this. (no doubt among other things!)

Mr Brown also admitted that he had been promised work started on a new stadium by now, but seemed really relaxed and happy to be still at the club anyway.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Another point Around shirt sponsorship for Steve Kavanagh.

Ron had two local companies offer money for shirt sponsorship. But, our wage budget is consigned to 55% of our turnover, therefore for us to turn down money to give Ron free sponsorship, or to offset debt would be counter productive to Ron's desire to see us out of this league.

We were tenth last year for turnover, therefore conversely had the tenth best budget, Fleetwood were top by virtue of their chairmans shirt sponsorship. Allowing them to make the signings of Ryan Cresswell etc possible. Fleetwoods budget was in excess of 2m, I think 2.2m. Portsmouth, this season have naturally shot to the top of that list, having continued their recovery.

He was asked how clubs such as Accrington survive on such meagre attendences, and Steve referred back to an earlier conversation around our finances: Where he said (and to be honest I thought he was just reading out one of Beefy's posts on the subject), that simply football clubs are run at a loss, up and down the country. They are not cash rich, and because they are run at a loss, chairman are villified at most clubs as a result. Southend United have a target loss figure, and if they hit that, Martin can make up the difference. Acrrington will have this same concept in place, albeit with smaller numbers.

The Stadium question was asked. Steve said only Ron can answer that, but he is working tirelessly, pointing out his car was still in the car park, as this is his goal as much as anyone's. But he stressed we should enjoy the football side and the fact we've won three in a row, and when the stadium comes through, it'll improve the moment. Paul added that reviews were being done, with some bad news for some partners, but as yet, we were still waiting.

Phil was asked who he thinks the next youth team player to come through would be. first off he talked about the three strikers, saying how he'd been impressed with them in different ways, and they had all shown potential (Brown who is just back from injury, Layne and Williams).

He also then went on to talk about how big a risk it is playing youth team players, because it's impossible to know who will do well, and who won't. He eluded to a figure of just 2% of youth team players make the grade. Kind of puts into perspective the constant calls to instantly promote half the youth team into the squad because they're young and hungry. Another example of how difficult it, a Danish scout at a predominant Danish club (Ras Rasmussan I think) wrote a book about the difficulties in identifying which players will be the most succesful. An experiment at the Danish club, got the four top scouts, each to identify which player would be the most succesful from their current youth team set up. They each wrote down who they believed it to be, and the envelopes were set aside. Three years later, all were opened and none had identified the best export from the youth academy three years prior, a kid just sold for 4.9m.

Again, I'll try and chuck some more on later.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

The Stadium question was asked. Steve said only Ron can answer that, but he is working tirelessly, pointing out his car was still in the car park, as this is his goal as much as anyone's. But he stressed we should enjoy the football side and the fact we've won three in a row, and when the stadium comes through, it'll improve the moment..

What does 'Improve the moment' mean?

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Our site is still under review by Sainsburys, who have concluded a lot of these reviews, but not ours. We are waiting for the outcome of this. (no doubt among other things!)

Mr Brown also admitted that he had been promised work started on a new stadium by now, but seemed really relaxed and happy to be still at the club anyway.

Phil Brown probably realises that by the time (if ever) we get a new ground, he will no longer be manager at Southend.

 

[Blue_Wes]

I know something you don't know is back!:winking:



So as expected then. No obligation but a financial incentive for the club to play them, which when you are a cash strapped club like Southend can mean the finance director/Kavanagh/Ron standing over the manager when he fills in the team sheet saying how gates are down this month but you will be playing the loanee, won't you? Or if you want that new signing it would be pretty helpful if you play the loanee instead of our own kid.

In the interest of balance, I should also point out that they will likely have similar conversations about players contracted to us, depending on bonuses or things in their contract. Managers may be leant on to ease out a higher earner (maybe like a Laird?) in favour of a cheaper younger player, asked to rest someone if it would otherwise trigger a clause in their contract.

Brown won't admit to this type of stuff until he's planning his exit. Even then he might realise that future employers value discretion in their staff.

No, because any reduction was a benefit to the finances, not something to be relied on.

In another point, it was stressed that best revenue was through bums on seats, and that can only be achieved through success on the pitch, through selection of the right players. It wasn't said, but I took the implication that this was a far greater incentive than saving x hundreds of pounds that week through playing a player, especially coupled with Browns comment, that players selected are there on merit.

He did also big up Shaq's ability, and that he was excellent along with 2/3 others in the closed behind doors game with Spurs development side, also highlighting that every team that Torquay played with Shaq in the side, were competing for his signature this term.

 

[Seedy Nigel]

Did anyone ask if Brown was going to be rewarded with a contract extension? Lots of talk in May but things have gone quiet and he has less than 6 months left...

 

[EastStandBlue]

Did anyone ask if Brown was going to be rewarded with a contract extension? Lots of talk in May but things have gone quiet and he has less than 6 months left...

That's of his own doing, is it not? Negotiations were said to be ongoing the last time we heard, so I assume a contract offer has at least been made.

 

[Chairman Trigg]

This really is ***** for the last few years we have been told lies and half truths and strung along.We are all paying members of this club and when they ask us for our money and support the very least we deserve is to be kept informed .If at season ticket renewal time we had all held our money back till we were told the up to date picture I'm sure RON would have surfaced

same old thing on ff, only Ron Martin knows where we stand right now on this and him alone, he was invited to make a apperance last night as well but didn't want to show his face, no surprise eh:'(

 

[Blue_Wes]

Well, if we're enjoying the football, the new stadium coming along will add to that enjoyment, and make the football seem even sweeter. Basically, stop sweating on it coming along, and it's a bonus when it finally happens.

Speaking of the stadium, he finds it frustrating not knowing the time scales of the new stadium, as it stops any potential short term solutions to current problems with Roots Hall. He has ideas on improvements, i.e. optimising the catering facilities to ensure more people are served and greater product, and knocking down a few boxes (as these are awful on the sales front) and creating one big viewing lounge to eat and watch the club), but he doesn't know if the club will be at Roots Hall long enough for the costs of these improvements to be outweighed by the benefits they'd reap over time.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Did anyone ask if Brown was going to be rewarded with a contract extension? Lots of talk in May but things have gone quiet and he has less than 6 months left...

That's of his own doing, is it not? Negotiations were said to be ongoing the last time we heard, so I assume a contract offer has at least been made.

Yes. It's on the table, negotiations have been made and it's with Ron, but there's no rush. Phil isn't going anywhere, he's here to do a job (yes sold with the promise of a stadium) but that isn't here, he is, he's very lucky to be at a football club (specifially not a L2 club) and he wants to see the job through, and that's Championship football.

As a result, he see's his contract as the least important part, and he is as guilty of letting it take it's time as Steve and Ron, becasue, he wants the kids contract's, new signings, and development contracts sorted first. It will be signed in due course.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

re the highlighted piece. I really can't see that happening. I understand I might be wrong I really can't agree. From a fiance perspective the amounts involved are simply not significant enough for this to com into play. I can't see an experienced manager like Brown agreeing to it, it also gives him a 'get out of jail card' if things go badly as he can 'blame' results on picking that player. Finally and most important of all the quote in the post was black and white to me and should be the end of the debate

Each to their own. Personally, I believe people are being naive if they don't think that a manager won't be under any pressure to play a loanee. That pressure may be subtle and it won't be the only pressure the manager is under, but the manager will know that he's expected to play the loanee and will face questions if he doesn't.

I don't know how many of you have budgets at work that you manage. This is no different. The manager has a budget and he knows that if he does one course of action it will eat into his budget and if he does a different course of action it will increase his budget.

 

[mrsblue]

Each to their own. Personally, I believe people are being naive if they don't think that a manager won't be under any pressure to play a loanee. That pressure may be subtle and it won't be the only pressure the manager is under, but the manager will know that he's expected to play the loanee and will face questions if he doesn't.

I don't know how many of you have budgets at work that you manage. This is no different. The manager has a budget and he knows that if he does one course of action it will eat into his budget and if he does a different course of action it will increase his budget.

This this and this again!

Ron will encourage Phil to play the loanee at every turn without fail.
So the idea of playing on merit is false.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Another point Around shirt sponsorship for Steve Kavanagh.

Ron had two local companies offer money for shirt sponsorship. But, our wage budget is consigned to 55% of our turnover, therefore for us to turn down money to give Ron free sponsorship, or to offset debt would be counter productive to Ron's desire to see us out of this league.

We were tenth last year for turnover, therefore conversely had the tenth best budget, Fleetwood were top by virtue of their chairmans shirt sponsorship. Allowing them to make the signings of Ryan Cresswell etc possible. Fleetwoods budget was in excess of 2m, I think 2.2m. Portsmouth, this season have naturally shot to the top of that list, having continued their recovery.

He was asked how clubs such as Accrington survive on such meagre attendences, and Steve referred back to an earlier conversation around our finances: Where he said (and to be honest I thought he was just reading out one of Beefy's posts on the subject), that simply football clubs are run at a loss, up and down the country. They are not cash rich, and because they are run at a loss, chairman are villified at most clubs as a result. Southend United have a target loss figure, and if they hit that, Martin can make up the difference. Acrrington will have this same concept in place, albeit with smaller numbers.

The Stadium question was asked. Steve said only Ron can answer that, but he is working tirelessly, pointing out his car was still in the car park, as this is his goal as much as anyone's. But he stressed we should enjoy the football side and the fact we've won three in a row, and when the stadium comes through, it'll improve the moment. Paul added that reviews were being done, with some bad news for some partners, but as yet, we were still waiting.

Phil was asked who he thinks the next youth team player to come through would be. first off he talked about the three strikers, saying how he'd been impressed with them in different ways, and they had all shown potential (Brown who is just back from injury, Layne and Williams).

He also then went on to talk about how big a risk it is playing youth team players, because it's impossible to know who will do well, and who won't. He eluded to a figure of just 2% of youth team players make the grade. Kind of puts into perspective the constant calls to instantly promote half the youth team into the squad because they're young and hungry. Another example of how difficult it, a Danish scout at a predominant Danish club (Ras Rasmussan I think) wrote a book about the difficulties in identifying which players will be the most succesful. An experiment at the Danish club, got the four top scouts, each to identify which player would be the most succesful from their current youth team set up. They each wrote down who they believed it to be, and the envelopes were set aside. Three years later, all were opened and none had identified the best export from the youth academy three years prior, a kid just sold for 4.9m.

Again, I'll try and chuck some more on later.

I'm glad this was asked and to be fair a more than satisfactory answer. Wonder whether the club could take home sponsorship from a company and allow the shortfall to be taken up by Ron sponsoring the away shirt?