The 8 though the gate

[ms brush]

In all honesty, there could be a couple of fairly simple, creative short term solutions whilst the longer term plans are being sorted out. One is increase the choice and quality of food in the current outlets, and create an area of stalls on the way into the East (sacrificing some parking if necessary) to reduce the congestion in the East stand. Since the limit on no's of people in the bar it has become almost impossible to move through the East Greens and Blacks, even to go to the loo. Wondering whether there is a way to open up the Collymore bar, even temporarily to regular fans to relieve the pressure?

Same applies in the West and in the away end - better quality and choices in existing outlets would be a good start.

 

[Tommy2holes]

When we were at Barnet last weekend, we arrived couple of hours before the game. Went into the home supporters bar / Starbucks in the office building looking stand that housed the gym etc. was warm, welcoming with a good choice of drinks and food. Think I spent £25 on two chicken burger and chips, bottle of coke and a water. If we had facilities like that in the future we’d always get our lunch at Roots Hall. I’d even be able to encourage the missus to come down before a game for some food and a glass of wine. There’s lots of money to be made from giving some services other than watching a football game.

You were lucky then.

It took 45 mins to get a beer and queued up for food about 10 mins before half time and got to the front of the queue to be told no more food. There were never any burgers, pies or chips. Just sausages in buns.

My experience of Barnets facilities were very different.

Roots hall also has several eateries and pubs nearby. Barnet is a soulless 3 sided stadium near nothing at all.

 

[rigsby]

You were lucky then.

It took 45 mins to get a beer and queued up for food about 10 mins before half time and got to the front of the queue to be told no more food. There were never any burgers, pies or chips. Just sausages in buns.

My experience of Barnets facilities were very different.

Roots hall also has several eateries and pubs nearby. Barnet is a soulless 3 sided stadium near nothing at all.

I did warn you pre match not to bother with Barnet. They never got penny from me because they take the p*** (two staff on a s*** kiosk).... Camden was great and very lively. We even stayed for another and arrived in an Uber just before Ko when all the queues had gone.

Don't support clubs that take the P out of away fans. I won't even go to Wealdstone let alone spend money there.

 

[rigsby]

That's exactly the issue. And (dare I say it) I dont see us ever having that at Roots Hall, even after a rebuild. My reasoning is that, at Barnet, there is a lot of room to roam around outside the ground. Even if we redevelop RH I don't see how we can do that, which means, for example, the West stand will stay cut off from the rest of the ground and facilities, meaning a big reduction in potential revenue. You could duplicate those facilities for the West, but that would double the costs for the same revenue, and I'm not sure there's even the space.

I would hope someone with more imagination than me will look into this and come up with a solution.

The simple solution away fans in the South. Safe standing for home fans in the North with access to the West from the NW corner as well as Shakespeare drive.

Fanzone in the NE corner. That way any home fan would be just minute away from any entrance.

 

[ms brush]

I did warn you pre match not to bother with Barnet. They never got penny from me because they take the p*** (two staff on a s*** kiosk).... Camden was great and very lively. We even stayed for another and arrived in an Uber just before Ko when all the queues had gone.

Don't support clubs that take the P out of away fans. I won't even go to Wealdstone let alone spend money there.

Interesting - I think we really take the P out of away fans, particularly as there is also no away pub for them to go to these days! Our away facilities are absolutely shocking, and totally disgraceful for a club of our standing. (York's away end at their old ground was bad, but it was still better than ours is!)

Going slightly off-topic and veering towards the 8 through the gate thread - if we majored on some decent toilets, a temporary bar and decent snacks in the North bank, we might just attract a few more through the door!

 

[rigsby]

Interesting - I think we really take the P out of away fans, particularly as there is also no away pub for them to go to these days! Our away facilities are absolutely shocking, and totally disgraceful for a club of our standing. (York's away end at their old ground was bad, but it was still better than ours is!)

Going slightly off-topic and veering towards the 8 through the gate thread - if we majored on some decent toilets, a temporary bar and decent snacks in the North bank, we might just attract a few more through the door!

Our North bank is fare better than many away stands in the NL, at least you can see the pitch.

Away fans can still go in any of our pubs or the Shrimpers and often do. With many teams having less than 100 or like a few months ago 3 games with less than 40 each time......An away pub would soon be out of business.

That aside I don't blame anyone for the poor seating or restricted views. but squeezing us into corners understaffed kiosks and 25 cold pies is just total p*** take. Especially when all clubs bleat about how tough it is to survive.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

To be honest, the figure is cobblers.

I partly agree (yes, there are many other things to consider) but then partly disagree.

For me, a number for breakeven is a useful figure - getting near that gives me confidence that the club (if properly managed) has a long term healthy financial base; getting above that might give the management team some "wiggle room" in the transfer market; getting below that suggests the club will have to trim costs .......... and that could mean trimming the number of players or not being able to compete with wages elsewhere.

I know there are holes in the above but I hope I have conveyed the overall idea. Perhaps it is just me - I would like an overall figure that I could use to simply and roughly judge how financially fit the club is as the season progresses.

What I find hard to believe is that the figure is around 8,000. I only base this on the fact that other clubs in the league "seem" to do okay on a figure less than a quarter of that.

 

[Dubai]

I partly agree (yes, there are many other things to consider) but then partly disagree.

For me, a number for breakeven is a useful figure - getting near that gives me confidence that the club (if properly managed) has a long term healthy financial base; getting above that might give the management team some "wiggle room" in the transfer market; getting below that suggests the club will have to trim costs .......... and that could mean trimming the number of players or not being able to compete with wages elsewhere.

I know there are holes in the above but I hope I have conveyed the overall idea. Perhaps it is just me - I would like an overall figure that I could use to simply and roughly judge how financially fit the club is as the season progresses.

What I find hard to believe is that the figure is around 8,000. I only base this on the fact that other clubs in the league "seem" to do okay on a figure less than a quarter of that.

The figure of 8k or other clubs being much lower is actually rather pointless, it really depends on how much the owners are willing to put into/gift the club without an expectations of a return.

 

[united we stand]

That's exactly the issue. And (dare I say it) I dont see us ever having that at Roots Hall, even after a rebuild. My reasoning is that, at Barnet, there is a lot of room to roam around outside the ground. Even if we redevelop RH I don't see how we can do that, which means, for example, the West stand will stay cut off from the rest of the ground and facilities, meaning a big reduction in potential revenue. You could duplicate those facilities for the West, but that would double the costs for the same revenue, and I'm not sure there's even the space.

I would hope someone with more imagination than me will look into this and come up with a solution.

Allow fans to spend their money in the east before/after match , then walk round the pitch to their seats in the west?

 

[Seaside Shrimper]

It took 45 mins to get a beer and queued up for food about 10 mins before half time and got to the front of the queue to be told no more food. There were never any burgers, pies or chips. Just sausages in buns.

This was my experience in the west this week. Took a friend and his daughter for their first game (well her 1st game, his 1st for many many years) and had a great time other than we queued to get a burger for well over 30 mins and missed a big chunk of the 2nd half. When we got to the front there was nothing but hot dogs (no onions) yet they were still only being prepared when ordered (If all you have are hot dog's take a peek at the queue and batch prepare a load, surely?!?)

I know improvements are to come but they need to happen quickly, people will start to take an interest as the takeover becomes (even more so) common knowledge and this kind of thing can really put new or casual fans off

 

[CC51DAS]

This was my experience in the west this week. Took a friend and his daughter for their first game (well her 1st game, his 1st for many many years) and had a great time other than we queued to get a burger for well over 30 mins and missed a big chunk of the 2nd half. When we got to the front there was nothing but hot dogs (no onions) yet they were still only being prepared when ordered (If all you have are hot dog's take a peek at the queue and batch prepare a load, surely?!?)

I know improvements are to come but they need to happen quickly, people will start to take an interest as the takeover becomes (even more so) common knowledge and this kind of thing can really put new or casual fans off

Yep, catering is rubbish, toilets are rubbish - I don't spend a penny .......

 

[KAB]

To be honest, the figure is cobblers.

Breaking even of course means earning enough revenue to cover your costs. While the biggest cost is likely salaries (playing and non-playing) and the biggest income stream is currently matchday ticket sales, there are lots of things you can do to increase revenue or cut costs beyond these two lines in the accounts that make the 8,500 meaningless. Both costs and revenue can vary wildly, so inasmuch as there's ever a break even figure solely sought from ticket sales, 8,500 now might be 8,300 next month if a player or two leaves or 9,000 or 7,000 or 7,002... you get the idea.

The biggest two culprits for our lack of solvency in recent years are:

1. Ron paying himself a fat salary, in effect, to cover 'rent and management fees' for Roots Hall - which the club owned anyway before he moved it to one of his other group companies; and
2. Ron's total abject failure to invest in the non-matchday revenue streams, at all, ever. No conference / meeting / wedding / social facilities to speak of, very little investment in the fixed assets or effort to use them to generate revenue outside match days.

The 'break even' figure, aside from being bollocks, was always all about pressurising the fans to turn up more often and fill Ron's pockets.

The thing is the figure of 8500 was first mentioned by Bill Ruben, then by Vic Jobson and most recently by Ron. It may be a fictitious number but its always been consistent.

 

[Tommy2holes]

This was my experience in the west this week. Took a friend and his daughter for their first game (well her 1st game, his 1st for many many years) and had a great time other than we queued to get a burger for well over 30 mins and missed a big chunk of the 2nd half. When we got to the front there was nothing but hot dogs (no onions) yet they were still only being prepared when ordered (If all you have are hot dog's take a peek at the queue and batch prepare a load, surely?!?)

I know improvements are to come but they need to happen quickly, people will start to take an interest as the takeover becomes (even more so) common knowledge and this kind of thing can really put new or casual fans off

I went to the kiosk inside about 5 before half time and got served immediately.

If you wait untill the whistle and then go along the wall it takes forever. Always go inside as it's less of a queue and is far quicker.

I'd never queue up at half time for a beer. Always pre order before the match and walk in at half time to collect straight away.

Guess is just experience of what you've had, has made me wise up over time.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

The figure of 8k or other clubs being much lower is actually rather pointless, it really depends on how much the owners are willing to put into/gift the club without an expectations of a return.

I'm not really sure that is what I want.

The odd gift of money would be nice of course (say for refurbishment) but I would also look for a more long term stability by the club staying financially balanced. To that end, if I were part of the consortium (which I am not) I would want a figure in my head that says "we need to get xxxx attendance per game to roughly break even".

 

[rigsby]

The thing is the figure of 8500 was first mentioned by Bill Ruben, then by Vic Jobson and most recently by Ron. It may be a fictitious number but its always been consistent.

Also used by many fans recently. Some even claiming 10,000 as soon as Ron goes.
No sign yet of the mythical thousands. Seems many were using Ron as an excuse and have now gone silent on here.

Personally I don't want flakey f*****s sitting near me, who will only turn up if they get the right food or cask ale. The real important thing on match day is the game itself and it always will be.

 

[Cockle43]

I went to the kiosk inside about 5 before half time and got served immediately.

If you wait untill the whistle and then go along the wall it takes forever. Always go inside as it's less of a queue and is far quicker.

I'd never queue up at half time for a beer. Always pre order before the match and walk in at half time to collect straight away.

Guess is just experience of what you've had, has made me wise up over time.

'I'd never queue up at half time for a beer. Always pre order before the match and walk in at half time to collect straight away.'

The daft thing is that on Saturday there was one person serving the pre-orders and four, including one eating a burger, serving the walk-ins and the walk-ins were getting served quicker and with virtually no queue than the walk-ins. Our pre-order took nearly ten minutes to collect...

 

[OldBlueLady]

Wondering whether there is a way to open up the Collymore bar, even temporarily to regular fans to relieve the pressure?

Currently used by the ballboys/girls I think.

 

[Chrisb]

Yep, catering is rubbish, toilets are rubbish - I don't spend a penny .......

Me neither unless I really have to ...

 

[Tommy2holes]

'I'd never queue up at half time for a beer. Always pre order before the match and walk in at half time to collect straight away.'

The daft thing is that on Saturday there was one person serving the pre-orders and four, including one eating a burger, serving the walk-ins and the walk-ins were getting served quicker and with virtually no queue than the walk-ins. Our pre-order took nearly ten minutes to collect...

That's quite unusual. Many times of just walked in got my beers and walked out.

All the while the live queue is lengthy and slow

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

I'd never queue up at half time for a beer. Always pre order before the match and walk in at half time to collect straight away.

I'd never have a beer at half time, especially this time of year!. Probably an age thing, but if i did then i'd expect 2 trips to the loo before full time!.