The Aussie excuses have started

[Hong Kong Blue]

The difference isn't that England won a competition, its that the media now care.

I can assure you that England players were regularly spotted out in the early hours during the last Ashes - Mark Butcher in particular was regularly spotted in kebab houses during the early hours and I remember bumping (literally, given the state I was in) into Michael Vaughan one night. Admittedly it was about the only thing I did remember from that evening as I was so paralytic I had to be told four times that it was England's star batsman I was standing next to, but that is another story.

Beckham and Owen are actually remarkably clean living (Rebecca Loos and gambling respectively aside) and make excellent role models for people open minded enough to look beyond the stereotype of a footballer. Personally I'd only be interested in being Andrew Flintoff the cricketer or David Beckham the footballer as I have little interest in Flintoff or Beckham the person outside the sporting arena.

 

[BoyWonder2]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ Sep. 14 2005,14:50)]

Quote[/b] (SUFCFARAWAY @ Sep. 14 2005,14:39)]They are all heros - even Ian Bell!!

erm No  

Well he took 8 catches throughout the series, so he certianly played his part, albeit it wasn't with the bat. Although he did hit half centuries at Old Trafford in spenldid innings.

Everyone of the guys played there part in the Ashes success and they all deserve recoignition of the fact.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 13 2005,21:39)]Also, whilst there has been some sporting moments, I'm getting a bit fed up with people saying how sportsmanship was to the fore. B*****s it was.
Ponting had a absolutely disgraceful outburst, at least as bad as Rooney's tantrum; Shane Warne's appealing has been well over the top - intimidatory and  illegal; dissent has repeatedly been shown when batsmen like Martyn and Katich get bad decisions (and in some cases good decisions), batsmen have refused to walk when they've edged it and I'm sure England have been just as guilty. Yes, there have been some moments of sportsmanship, but you get that in football as well. Players offering a hand after they've fouled someone to get them back onto their feet is commonplace, players shake hands after the game and congratulate their opponent, they kick the ball back when someone goes down injured etc etc. Cricketers aren't really any different to footballers, other than being held up to be whiter than white, in an attempt to besmirch football.

As if to prove my point....

Caborn is a stroker

 

[Ron Manager]

The difference for me was the fact that the England cricket team got gloriously drunk celebrating a victory staying in a Central London hotel and managed to not be involved in a sex scandal with slapper hangers on or run around setting off fire extinguishers like little kids.

For me it's not a case of comparing like for like all cricketers with all footballers. It's about comparing the overall behaviour and demeanour of cricketers at the top of their game who've actually won and achieved something with jumped up little Premier$hite p%&*ks who've played very little and won even less and yet feel that their over-inflated salaries (matched only by their egos) give them carte-blanche to behave how they like.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Sep. 14 2005,22:07)]The difference for me was the fact that the England cricket team got gloriously drunk celebrating a victory staying in a Central London hotel and managed to not be involved in a sex scandal with slapper hangers on or run around setting off fire extinguishers like little kids.

For me it's not a case of comparing like for like all cricketers with all footballers. It's about comparing the overall behaviour and demeanour of cricketers at the top of their game who've actually won and achieved something with jumped up little Premier$hite p%&*ks who've played very little and won even less and yet feel that their over-inflated salaries (matched only by their egos) give them carte-blanche to behave how they like.

Great shout - particularly in view of Wayne Rooneys antics last night, and i presume he was sober.

 

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Sep. 14 2005,22:07)]The difference for me was the fact that the England cricket team got gloriously drunk celebrating a victory staying in a Central London hotel and managed to not be involved in a sex scandal with slapper hangers on or run around setting off fire extinguishers like little kids.

For me it's not a case of comparing like for like all cricketers with all footballers. It's about comparing the overall behaviour and demeanour of cricketers at the top of their game who've actually won and achieved something with jumped up little Premier$hite p%&*ks who've played very little and won even less and yet feel that their over-inflated salaries (matched only by their egos) give them carte-blanche to behave how they like.

100% agreed. It's not the drunkeness it's the behaviour.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

I'm sorry, this type of rant against footballers really annoys me. RM you are a far,far, far better poster than to resort to these crude Daily Mail style postings.

Firstly, there are approximately 500 premier$hite footballers on whom the media can look for dirt, whilst only 12 England cricketers took part in the Ashes. There might be some complete knobs in the premier$hite, but then there are also players like Sir Chrissy Powell of England. That is what happens what you take a sample of 500. If you look at England's cricket team approximately 10% (ie Kevin Pietersen) of them are obnoxious, arrogant but also very talented.

Secondly, wages. Why does every newspaper expose going, feel it necessary to say that "footballer X, who earns 30,000 - A WEEK"? What have their wages got to do with anything? The fact that footballers earn good money appears to mean they should be judged on a different scale. Man on £30,000 a year gets drunk/has affair = no story, but man on £30,000 a week gets drunk/has affair = front page news. To me this just strikes of jealousy.

Football is big business, and call me a Marxist, but I think footballers should share in the lion's share of the wealth that they create. I don't begrudge them the fruits of their labour.

Third, class. Football is essentially a working class sport and this creates a certain amount of snobbery. Rugby players getting lashed up and lighting each others' farts is all acceptable high jinks, but footballers doing the same is front page news. Look at the sneering coverage that Rooney's missus gets. Cricketers get away with it because being they went to nice schools and must therefore be jolly decent chaps.

Fourth, muck-raking. Remember the Leicester at La Manga episode - despite being convicted by every newspaper going, the players were actually totally innocent. Opportunists are trying to knock premier$hite players down at every opportunity. Girls are whoring themselves out in the knowledge that if they sleep with a premier$hite footballler they can have a good evening and get paid for it. Its a form indirect prostitution. If good looking girls were falling at your feet would you honestly turn them down if you were younng, free and single? Besides, the kiss and tale is being worked on cricketers now they are in the media spotlight as well eg Simon Jones, Kevin Pietersen. Personally I think the person who comes out of the whole saga worse is firstly the person kissing and telling, secondly the journalist writing it and thirdly the public who are titilated by it.

Yes, you can pick on individual examples, but the desire to do so appears to me to be driven by jealousy, snobbery and a desire for titilation.

 

[canveyshrimper]

I think that in the main HKB you are largely right, however I would take issue with you on a couple of points.

There are 18 First Class counties therefore around 360 players that the media can have a go at if they so wish. With so many test players from other countries playing here (Shane Warne for example) then the field is further extended. However the press will probably only go after the so called stars / playboys, like Flintoff, Pieterson, Simon Jones etc. Of course there will be arrogant t%&ts among them (Ian Botham was one of the worst I have ever come across).

I agree that wages should not be an arbiter of good behaviour or otherwise, and i cannot criticise people for asking and taking what is on offer in terms of salary. I know if my business was in that type of area then i would bite your hand off. However money and status generally does generate a kind of "Don't you know who i am" arrogance in some. Rooney is a typical example of this in the fact that even Ferguson does not appear to be able to control his behavious. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the England cricketers (and Aussies) they have virtually all to a man behaved impeccably towards the umpires and officials.

To take up the point of football being a working class sport is also a bit of a misnomer. Football like cricket & rugby is still run by the "men in suits". Also to state that cricketers all go to or have been to nice schools is a nonsense. Although cricket is fast disappearing from state schools the majority of the players in the England team are "working class" whatever that means. As most of us have to work for a living are'nt we all working class?

I agree completely about the muck raking, generally the truth does not get in the way of a good story. If people are titillated by this type of crap and get their jollies from it then so beit unfortunately. I would imagine that most with half a brain will take this type of thing with a pinch of salt or ignore. It is true though that untruths and mud will stick, there have been plenty of players who down the years have been accused of rape, sexual assault etc and generally apart from the odd case have been proven innocent. Trouble is the damage is already done in peoples minds, Oh yeah Paul Dickov he's a rapist is'nt he?

It is a shame that sports people cannot go out for a drink without some ******** wanting a piece of them, but that is they way of our world now. Therefore they should in all cases, and where possible show the utmost restraint in their collective and indiviual behaviour.

 

[C C Csiders]

Quote[/b] (canveyshrimper @ Sep. 15 2005,13:04)]I think that in the main HKB you are largely right, however I would take issue with you on a couple of points.

It is a shame that sports people cannot go out for a drink without some ******** wanting a piece of them, but that is they way of our world now. Therefore they should in all cases, and where possible show the utmost restraint in their collective and indiviual behaviour.

HKB is largely right, and good posts by both HKB and canveyshrimper.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Premier$hite players are paid similar salaries to those playing in Serie A and La Liga, but that it is only those playing in the Premier$hite that end up with headlines highlighting immature and dangerous behaviour.

It may be that the media in Italy and Spain doesn't highlight such irresponsibility, but alas, I feel it is the arrogant mentality of the British (largely English) player that leads to such headlines.

Of course there are the Chris Powell's, Garth Southgate's, Graeme Le Saux's and Sol Campbell's of this world that can put their brain into gear - but these are seemingly outweighed by the dimwitted.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 15 2005,12:07)]I'm sorry, this type of rant against footballers really annoys me. RM you are a far,far, far better poster than to resort to these crude Daily Mail style postings.

Firstly, there are approximately 500 premier$hite footballers on whom the media can look for dirt, whilst only 12 England cricketers took part in the Ashes. There might be some complete knobs in the premier$hite, but then there are also players like Sir Chrissy Powell of England. That is what happens what you take a sample of 500. If you look at England's cricket team approximately 10% (ie Kevin Pietersen) of them are obnoxious, arrogant but also very talented.

Secondly, wages. Why does every newspaper expose going, feel it necessary to say that "footballer X, who earns 30,000 - A WEEK"? What have their wages got to do with anything? The fact that footballers earn good money appears to mean they should be judged on a different scale. Man on £30,000 a year gets drunk/has affair = no story, but man on £30,000 a week gets drunk/has affair = front page news. To me this just strikes of jealousy.

Football is big business, and call me a Marxist, but I think footballers should share in the lion's share of the wealth that they create. I don't begrudge them the fruits of their labour.

Third, class. Football is essentially a working class sport and this creates a certain amount of snobbery. Rugby players getting lashed up and lighting each others' farts is all acceptable high jinks, but footballers doing the same is front page news. Look at the sneering coverage that Rooney's missus gets. Cricketers get away with it because being they went to nice schools and must therefore be jolly decent chaps.

Fourth, muck-raking. Remember the Leicester at La Manga episode - despite being convicted by every newspaper going, the players were actually totally innocent. Opportunists are trying to knock premier$hite players down at every opportunity. Girls are whoring themselves out in the knowledge that if they sleep with a premier$hite footballler they can have a good evening and get paid for it. Its a form indirect prostitution. If good looking girls were falling at your feet would you honestly turn them down if you were younng, free and single? Besides, the kiss and tale is being worked on cricketers now they are in the media spotlight as well eg Simon Jones, Kevin Pietersen. Personally I think the person who comes out of the whole saga worse is firstly the person kissing and telling, secondly the journalist writing it and thirdly the public who are titilated by it.

Yes, you can pick on individual examples, but the desire to do so appears to me to be driven by jealousy, snobbery and a desire for titilation.

Wooooaaaaahhhhhh hang on - Daily Mail style postings?

!!

That's verging on libel!  

Seriously though, there is a sizeable enough proportion of young footballers in this country who do not respect the priviliged position they are in and treat their own paying public with contempt. They are, I concede, a minority and the likes of 'Sir' Chris Powell are of course ignored in the press because players behaving well do not sell papers. I'm also sure that there are a few knob-heads who play cricket for a living, however they are not paid the obscene amounts of money that enable them to act in the way it would appear some footballers are able to get away with.

Average Premier$hite players are paid far too much money for too little achievements. In some this breeds a feeling of having arrived and acting the big 'I am' is their way of showing off to the world like the immature children they are. That is the fault of their clubs and the all consuming Premier$hite obsessed culture that's developed in this country.

I merely feel that cricket knocking the 'worlds greatest league' (copyright - themselves) off of the back pages for a while is a good thing and a reminder that the whole world doesn't revolve around the antics of Arsenal, Chelsea, Manu Utd etc. That and the fact that a group of young sportsmen can go out and consume that amount of alcohol having actually 'achieved' something and still behave themselves is a good example to many.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I'm staying (largely) clear of this one, but just a few things to note:

1. HKB... you rail against the prejudices that the papers love to trot out about footballers, and then promptly state that all cricketers "went to nice schools and therefore must be jolly decent chaps". Tut tut. Gross stereotyping there, old boy. Did Freddy go to public school? Doubt it.

2. The press, as we all know, have an angle. Last year, their angle was: footballers are out of control. Thus, whilst cricketers have done some bloody stupid things (and have got the headlines - Gower & Beefy smoking pot, Giddins doing coke), ultimately that wasn't the angle that the papers were running.

Why? Who knows. Probably because football has more money swilling around it, and therefore is a far greater target for envy. Probably because more footballers come from working-class backgrounds and therefore - for the red tops, who have pretty much a monopoly on these stories - are people with whom their readership identify with more... but also feel more alienated from because of their wealth as a result. And almost certainly because, ultimately, sex sells.

I cannot think of a decent cricketing sex scandal, I'm afraid. And for a red top, Gower smoking pot aren't half as interesting as any of the stories they ran about Rooney with elderly hookers in Liverpool, Becks and Loos, or the "roasting" video tales. Sex sells, plain and simple - and that's why the footballers have been getting it in the neck.

Put it this way, if KP slept with a "page 3 stunna", would the press go easy on him because he's a cricketer? Don't be daft.

The cricketers have got away with things so far because they haven't yet broken the 11th commandment, one which the press recognises and respects unblinkingly...

Thou shalt not get caught

Matt

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Sorry, I meant "Cricketers" in the context of the England XI who beat Australia. Decent school does not necessarily mean public school.

As for cricketing kiss and tells, I've heard that Dermot Reeve (sex and drugs!), Simon Jones and Kevin Pietersen have all been exposed in the tabloids over the last few months. So are cricketers only just now having affairs/one-night stands? Only just now being caught? Or is that the media has only just recently taken any interest in cricket again? My money is on the latter.

A county player having an affair wouldn't interest the red tops - its not sex that sells, its football that sells. Or rather the celebrity which goes with being a footballer. Now international cricket has temporarily achieved the same celebrity as football, expect a few more slappers to go after the likes of Pietersen and Flintoff in the hope of earning a few quid, in the same way they sleep around with footballers and then sell their story. With cricket's new high profile, I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one further kiss and tell before the end of the Pakistan tour.


ps You refer back to Gower - who incidentally I wasn't aware was caught smoking pot - but if you want players from that era how about Mike Gatting (sacked from the England captaincy over an affair with a barmaid) and Beefy (affair with a Miss Jamaica).

 

[Ron Manager]

The thing is my point isn't even about kiss and tells - that's all just titilation as you say and of no interest to me whatsoever.

My point is about the general childish and offensive behaviour of a number of young, overpaid brats who show no respect for the people who pay their wages. That to me is a class thing - a betrayal of their class, smacking of an 'I've got loads of money so I'm better than you' attitude.

 

[canveyshrimper]

As always in a situation like this it always the minority that give the majority a bad name with their behaviour and up yours attitude. I am loaded so the rest of you can go to hell.

Just a thought on the kiss and tell slappers, if you walked up to one of them and asked them, would you sleep with me for £100? The outraged response would be what sort of girl do you think i am?

They sleep with Kevin Pitersen, Rio Ferdinand whoever, and then sell their stories to a sleazy tabloid for £10,000.

Well we know what sort of girls they are it is just the price we are haggling over.