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Was Kevin Bond right?

Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
508
I don't for a moment disagree with you Yorkie. I'm just tired of a supporter of another club offering up criticism more often than not when he/she posts.
Well if I fall foul of your posting rules I'm sure I'll be banned but until then I'll assume I'm allowed to continue?

And if you care to check- my criticism is of your owner/structure rather than anything to do with your fans (with exception of perhaps a couple of posters) or your players - The only other criticism I've offered is that your current manager was negligent in failing to prepare properly of the Col U game that effectively ended your survival chances - yet he was given a new contract and is already slagging off some players in public but that's been largely ignored and forgiven it seems
 

BoyWonder2

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
8,189
Location
Cold Norton, Essex
Anyways, this is a debate for another day, and another thread.

Getting back on topic, Bond was right. The situation he walked in on wasn’t going to be fixed with one transfer window. Now, whether six is accurate is another story, but we had a lot of deadwood at the Club when we escaped relegation from league one. Unfortunately, some of that deadwood didn’t leave until this summer, and some is still at the Club.

It isn’t as easy changing a culture at a club. We’ve been rotten to the core for a while. Genuinely, I think this summer window (I know we don’t have a transfer window but you know what I mean) has been the most positive one for an absolute age.

It isn’t so easy to get players out of a Club that the Club or the manager don’t want. Look at Akinola. PB told Akinola he didn’t fit into his plans very early on in his reign. He informed his agent, and Akinola to look elsewhere for a new Club.

His agent has done next to nothing in terms of searching for a Club. We have offered Akinola a couple of different packages to release him from his contract (various sums of money, percentages of wages not the full balance as is standard practice in these types of situations) but as is Akinola’s right, he has rejected them. He will earn more staying until his contract expiration date then if he left now for a percentage of it. He knows he is extremely unlikely to kick a ball for Southend United this season. He has been told that on numerous occasions. We’ve tried pushing him onto other clubs, including Col Ewe. He has also have the offer to train with another Club with a view to a potential deal, but decided against that.

It’s the same at every club. Look how long it took Arsenal to get rid of Ozil for example. It would be so much simpler if a manager could walk into a club, tear up contracts of everyone he doesn’t want, and sign his number 1 target in every position. That is just a fantasy though.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,172
Location
London
I don't for a moment disagree with you Yorkie. I'm just tired of a supporter of another club offering up criticism more often than not when he/she posts.

I’m disappointed that a supporter of another club is more concerned about the state of our club than seemingly many of our own fans.

I wish he was more positive but that’s more a reflection of where the club is than the poster in my view. There’s just not been much to get positive about these last few years.
 

Napster

The Horse with no Name⭐
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
35,456
Location
The wilds of Kent
I’m not being instructed to share information at all. I have permission to pass things on, as would anyone with inside information. I get told little things in confidence that I don’t pass on, sensitive things like injuries/transfer target names/and the like.

If I got told I wasn’t allowed to share something, then I wouldn’t. I’d be daft too.

As for that, no. My **** left at a young age, thanks for that.
I know who BW is, he's legit.
 

RHB

Super Moderator ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
22,432
Location
Westcliff riviera
Well if I fall foul of your posting rules I'm sure I'll be banned but until then I'll assume I'm allowed to continue?

And if you care to check- my criticism is of your owner/structure rather than anything to do with your fans (with exception of perhaps a couple of posters) or your players - The only other criticism I've offered is that your current manager was negligent in failing to prepare properly of the Col U game that effectively ended your survival chances - yet he was given a new contract and is already slagging off some players in public but that's been largely ignored and forgiven it seems
You're right if you cross the line you would be moderated, exactly the same as any other Zone member, and as far as I know you haven't required that action. As a mod I occasionally wish I had the 'ignore' facility available to me, but I don't.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,172
Location
London
Anyways, this is a debate for another day, and another thread.

Getting back on topic, Bond was right. The situation he walked in on wasn’t going to be fixed with one transfer window. Now, whether six is accurate is another story, but we had a lot of deadwood at the Club when we escaped relegation from league one. Unfortunately, some of that deadwood didn’t leave until this summer, and some is still at the Club.

It isn’t as easy changing a culture at a club. We’ve been rotten to the core for a while. Genuinely, I think this summer window (I know we don’t have a transfer window but you know what I mean) has been the most positive one for an absolute age.

It isn’t so easy to get players out of a Club that the Club or the manager don’t want. Look at Akinola. PB told Akinola he didn’t fit into his plans very early on in his reign. He informed his agent, and Akinola to look elsewhere for a new Club.

His agent has done next to nothing in terms of searching for a Club. We have offered Akinola a couple of different packages to release him from his contract (various sums of money, percentages of wages not the full balance as is standard practice in these types of situations) but as is Akinola’s right, he has rejected them. He will earn more staying until his contract expiration date then if he left now for a percentage of it. He knows he is extremely unlikely to kick a ball for Southend United this season. He has been told that on numerous occasions. We’ve tried pushing him onto other clubs, including Col Ewe. He has also have the offer to train with another Club with a view to a potential deal, but decided against that.

It’s the same at every club. Look how long it took Arsenal to get rid of Ozil for example. It would be so much simpler if a manager could walk into a club, tear up contracts of everyone he doesn’t want, and sign his number 1 target in every position. That is just a fantasy though.
The length of contracts was certainly an issue in the amount of time it’s take to turn the club around but all of those contracts Bond was dealing with have since expired/been paid off.
Brown inherited just 3 contracts that we couldn’t get out of for free if he wanted. It is however unfortunate that we opted for a manager who couldn’t work with any of those players

The other issue is confidence. That may take longer to rebuild. It’s not just players but fans who have been scarred by the last few years.

I felt the team actually took a step forward in that regard second half of last season. We became a much harder team to beat and kept clean sheets aplenty. Saturday was the first time since Nathan Ferguson made his debut that we’d conceded more than two goals - 19/20 season we were conceding three goals seemingly every week.
 

BoyWonder2

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
8,189
Location
Cold Norton, Essex
The length of contracts was certainly an issue in the amount of time it’s take to turn the club around but all of those contracts Bond was dealing with have since expired/been paid off.
Brown inherited just 3 contracts that we couldn’t get out of for free if he wanted. It is however unfortunate that we opted for a manager who couldn’t work with any of those players

The other issue is confidence. That may take longer to rebuild. It’s not just players but fans who have been scarred by the last few years.

I felt the team actually took a step forward in that regard second half of last season. We became a much harder team to beat and kept clean sheets aplenty. Saturday was the first time since Nathan Ferguson made his debut that we’d conceded more than two goals - 19/20 season we were conceding three goals seemingly every week.

But it’s not just first team players. How many players that were around then (May not have played for the first team) and have emerged under the likes of Campbell and MM before PB even stared.

Who were the three? Akinola, ANG & Ferguson?

Confidence is massive in football. As you say the fans will have been effected, but it’s the back room staff and the behind the scenes people you don’t tend to think about. Anyone connected to the Club has been scarred by goings on over the last 3 years. I’ve never felt as disconnected from the club than over the last three years. It’s not just the losing, every club loses matches, it was the apathy, the players, everything.

I’ve organised two charity football matches involving ex-Southend United players. The likes of Maher, Barret, Gower, Grant, Francis, Dudfield, Abbey, Rawle, Jupp, Che Wilson, David Lee, Roget, Mark Bentley, Peter Taylor, Ian Benjamin and others have been involved in. One was the week before the Wycombe play off final, and John White & Dan Bentley came down to watch. Over the past three years, I wouldn’t want anybody associated with the club to have appeared, and I don’t think they would. We had an unlikeable group of players, people that didn’t give a toss about the club, people that didn’t want to be here and it showed in their appearances. JW would be one exception, and maybe one or two others. But if I organised another one, how many people would like to watch the list I’ve given, and how many would like to see the likes of Dieng, Kieran, Mantom et all?
 

gatecrasher

Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
582
Murphy is the only signing we made this summer where I think we made a real effort in wages the rest had very few options and looked upon us as a last chance saloon. Im almost reaching a point where I think is it worth supporting anymore? Southend United died probably about 5 years ago, Ron has gambled and gambled so much that the pockets are now empty and whereas other clubs have been allowed to be rejuvenated or reborn with new stewardship we are not allowed to. The club is on life support, enough being put in just about to keep the patient with us hoping that Fossets happens and we can get some semblance of a club back to support. All we are supporting right now is an empty shell that is a vehicle for one man's pot of gold. The team will never be competitive, even with the fantastic fan base we have, because the man in charge won't let go.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,172
Location
London
But it’s not just first team players. How many players that were around then (May not have played for the first team) and have emerged under the likes of Campbell and MM before PB even stared.

Who were the three? Akinola, ANG & Ferguson?

Confidence is massive in football. As you say the fans will have been effected, but it’s the back room staff and the behind the scenes people you don’t tend to think about. Anyone connected to the Club has been scarred by goings on over the last 3 years. I’ve never felt as disconnected from the club than over the last three years. It’s not just the losing, every club loses matches, it was the apathy, the players, everything.

I’ve organised two charity football matches involving ex-Southend United players. The likes of Maher, Barret, Gower, Grant, Francis, Dudfield, Abbey, Rawle, Jupp, Che Wilson, David Lee, Roget, Mark Bentley, Peter Taylor, Ian Benjamin and others have been involved in. One was the week before the Wycombe play off final, and John White & Dan Bentley came down to watch. Over the past three years, I wouldn’t want anybody associated with the club to have appeared, and I don’t think they would. We had an unlikeable group of players, people that didn’t give a toss about the club, people that didn’t want to be here and it showed in their appearances. JW would be one exception, and maybe one or two others. But if I organised another one, how many people would like to watch the list I’ve given, and how many would like to see the likes of Dieng, Kieran, Mantom et all?
Actually it’s 4 as I forgot Phillips.

All the other ex-youth teamers were on one year deals/club options that the club actively decided to keep.

Therefore it was Brown who decided to renew deals for the likes of Demitriou, White, Hobson, Clifford, Ralph etc. He tried to keep Holmes, Lennon, Halford etc as well.

If he wanted to clean house he had every opportunity to do so. That’s basically the same number still under contract as Sturrock inherited.

(Granted it might have been Duncan who decided on the kids like Seaden, Howard, Kinali, Benton, Stewart etc.)
 

Napster

The Horse with no Name⭐
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
35,456
Location
The wilds of Kent
Actually it’s 4 as I forgot Phillips.

All the other ex-youth teamers were on one year deals/club options that the club actively decided to keep.

Therefore it was Brown who decided to renew deals for the likes of Demitriou, White, Hobson, Clifford, Ralph etc. He tried to keep Holmes, Lennon, Halford etc as well.

If he wanted to clean house he had every opportunity to do so. That’s basically the same number still under contract as Sturrock inherited.

(Granted it might have been Duncan who decided on the kids like Seaden, Howard, Kinali, Benton, Stewart etc.)
Did he really try to keep Lennon, Halford, or was it a desultory offer?
 

Ricky Otto

President⭐
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
6,595
Location
Chelmsford
Actually it’s 4 as I forgot Phillips.

All the other ex-youth teamers were on one year deals/club options that the club actively decided to keep.

Therefore it was Brown who decided to renew deals for the likes of Demitriou, White, Hobson, Clifford, Ralph etc. He tried to keep Holmes, Lennon, Halford etc as well.

If he wanted to clean house he had every opportunity to do so. That’s basically the same number still under contract as Sturrock inherited.

(Granted it might have been Duncan who decided on the kids like Seaden, Howard, Kinali, Benton, Stewart etc.)
Some great points here. The way PB is talking you'd think he had inherited most of the squad he seems desperate to change but you highlight the truth.

Last time around I don't remember PB being this critical of the players until it had all gone pear shaped, alarm bells are ringing already for me.
 

BoyWonder2

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
8,189
Location
Cold Norton, Essex
Actually it’s 4 as I forgot Phillips.

All the other ex-youth teamers were on one year deals/club options that the club actively decided to keep.

Therefore it was Brown who decided to renew deals for the likes of Demitriou, White, Hobson, Clifford, Ralph etc. He tried to keep Holmes, Lennon, Halford etc as well.

If he wanted to clean house he had every opportunity to do so. That’s basically the same number still under contract as Sturrock inherited.

(Granted it might have been Duncan who decided on the kids like Seaden, Howard, Kinali, Benton, Stewart etc.)

You say appoint a manager who couldn’t work with any of them, yet Phillips & Ferguson have started every game this season…

PB wanted to keep Holmes, that wasn’t a secret and I updated people throughout the summer on that. Lennon was only offered the chance to train with us to prove his fitness, he wasn’t ever officially offered a new deal, nor was Halford thankfully.
 

Tribal Chief

Head of the Table⭐
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
379
Location
Colorado
I am astonished at the tolerance displayed to the poster @nevereatwhitesnow - a Colchester supporter who doesn't respect our club or fanbase on any level. The only comment that I've seen deleted when he posted other offensive crap was mine when I politely asked him to **** off.
 

Thunderbolt & Lightfoot

Old lag with no legs
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
65
Location
Over the hills and far away
With us being relegated twice in a row there’s more to question.

Personally I’m shocked by how easy a ride Ron has got. His handling of the club has been catastrophic. Why aren’t more fans questioning what is going on?
I agree 100% with you that Ron has had an easy ride considering what has happened to the club on his watch. What I find particularly hard to accept is that recent financial problems seem to have been caused by exactly the same mistakes as the problems of a decade earlier i.e. awarding unaffordable contracts.
Perhaps the biggest single reason for the easy ride is that there has been no alternative owner putting themselves forward in public. At least then we can either judge whether it would be 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' or whether they offer hope that would make it worthwhile making life difficult for Ron e.g. by boycotting home games.
Without that hope, the fear is that he would use something like a boycott as an excuse to let the club fold and still make his fortune from building houses on RH and/or FF.
 

Cricko

Zone Owner ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
31,917
Location
Leigh-On-Sea
I agree 100% with you that Ron has had an easy ride considering what has happened to the club on his watch. What I find particularly hard to accept is that recent financial problems seem to have been caused by exactly the same mistakes as the problems of a decade earlier i.e. awarding unaffordable contracts.
Perhaps the biggest single reason for the easy ride is that there has been no alternative owner putting themselves forward in public. At least then we can either judge whether it would be 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' or whether they offer hope that would make it worthwhile making life difficult for Ron e.g. by boycotting home games.
Without that hope, the fear is that he would use something like a boycott as an excuse to let the club fold and still make his fortune from building houses on RH and/or FF.
I may be mistaken but didn't RM say in one of the recent Zoom calls that he had offers but turned them all down.
 

Thunderbolt & Lightfoot

Old lag with no legs
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
65
Location
Over the hills and far away
I may be mistaken but didn't RM say in one of the recent Zoom calls that he had offers but turned them all down.
Assuming RM was telling the truth about that (!) as they weren't public offers most of us will have no idea how serious those offers were or whether they were from anyone more trustworthy than RM. Blackpool seemed to have done OK from their change of owner but Charlton seemed to have gone further downhill with theirs.

Also that he'd only be interested in selling SUFC after FF was built.

If he really meant that then I will pencil in my 2040 calendar a note to support the campaign for him to sell up.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,172
Location
London
Actually it’s 4 as I forgot Phillips.

All the other ex-youth teamers were on one year deals/club options that the club actively decided to keep.

Therefore it was Brown who decided to renew deals for the likes of Demitriou, White, Hobson, Clifford, Ralph etc. He tried to keep Holmes, Lennon, Halford etc as well.

If he wanted to clean house he had every opportunity to do so. That’s basically the same number still under contract as Sturrock inherited.

(Granted it might have been Duncan who decided on the kids like Seaden, Howard, Kinali, Benton, Stewart etc.)
*5 - I forgot Walsh existed
 
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