The EU Referendum

[Tangled up in Blue]

And there my friends you have it in a nutshell. 'Seemed to suggest he's probably'..........in other words 'I didn't understand a word of what he was saying but I can make it fit my left wing 'Remain' agenda anyway' :hilarious:

No,actually I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt,though what he actually said was pretty clear.

 

[mfurok]

Good afternoon squire.

Like the Scottish Nationalists have?

Humour me- it's the weekend and you know I'm thick.

Please explain in a few brief bullet points why being a NO means right wing and being a YES means left wing.

I have never had a proper explanation so just give it to me both barrels please.

Still no answer then.

That's presumably because there isn't one.

This is not a right or left wing issue - this is all about whether people think they are European and, if so, are happy to allow unelected capitalist bureaucrats to govern us.

Shame on you.

As for the arch leftie Corbyn - he's not fit to tie John Smith's (RIP) bootlaces. Smith, along with Churchill, would have never allowed the UK - including the Scots of course - to be governed by the Germans.

 

[Bielzibubz]

No,actually I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt,though what he actually said was pretty clear.

No, clearly you haven't got a clue what being a proud Briton means. Your British in name only. Thank God you can't vote.

On your second point and the one I've quoted. In future I suggest you actually type what you meant. If as you suggest he was pretty clear in your opinion then say that. Don't change your viewpoint once you've been taken to task over it.

Oh, and have a word with your space bar. It seems to be saying 'f**k you' every time you use a comma. :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No, clearly you haven't got a clue what being a proud Briton means. Your British in name only. Thank God you can't vote.

On your second point and the one I've quoted. In future I suggest you actually type what you meant. If as you suggest he was pretty clear in your opinion then say that. Don't change your viewpoint once you've been taken to task over it.

Oh, and have a word with your space bar. It seems to be saying 'f**k you' every time you use a comma. :winking:

As I said, (what Paul Mason himself said was pretty clear), though he allowed himelf some wriggle room.That's why I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt (a concept you're obviously unfamiliar with).:smile:

It's also obvious you didn't actually see QT.Why not admit it?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Still no answer then.

That's presumably because there isn't one.

This is not a right or left wing issue - this is all about whether people think they are European and, if so, are happy to allow unelected capitalist bureaucrats to govern us.

Shame on you.

As for the arch leftie Corbyn - he's not fit to tie John Smith's (RIP) bootlaces. Smith, along with Churchill, would have never allowed the UK - including the Scots of course - to be governed by the Germans.

I suggest you re-read post 829 on this thread.That qualifies as an answer I think.

I know you're a great fan of John Smith's.But I have some news for you -he's dead like Churchill.:winking:

Ps You don't seem to have noticed that the Scots are pro-EU.So am I.

PPS I would agree with you, (up to a point Lord Copper),that this is not necessarily a right v left wing issue.But not with your erroneous conclusion from that.

As Hank Williams said:-"Unless you've made no mistakes in your life , be careful of stones that you throw."

 

[Bielzibubz]

As I said, (what Paul Mason himself said was pretty clear), though he allowed himelf some wriggle room.That's why I was happy to give him the benefit of the doubt (a concept you're obviously unfamiliar with).:smile:

It's also obvious you didn't actually see QT.Why not admit it?

No I didn't. I don't remember saying I did but hey ho.....

 

[Bielzibubz]

And now GO comes out with the sensationalist headline that house prices will plummet 18% if we Brexit. Well, apart from that being a complete unknown and more than likely bollocks anyway perhaps it's just what's needed to help millions of young get a foothold on the property market. And yes, I am prepared to accept a 10% to 15% reduction in the price of my property if it means we unshackle ourselves from the corrupt and undemocratic behemoth that is the EU.

Edit: And to add to that. With our own control and reduction in migration the pressure on the housing market 'could' be reduced. My point being with every hypothetical scare story put forward by the remain camp there is a perfectly legitimate counter argument for an Brexit.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Agreed. But for me, one issue is that the leave campaign can't see any downside, and that simply can't be the case. They would sound more realistic if they acknowledged that.

That's why I am undecided. On one hand it's going to be a wonderland of independence while the other predicts doom in the wilderness. Some straight forward facts and figures and less scaremongering from both sides would be nice.

 

[Bielzibubz]

That's why I am undecided. On one hand it's going to be a wonderland of independence while the other predicts doom in the wilderness. Some straight forward facts and figures and less scaremongering from both sides would be nice.

But therein lies the problem. Neither side can put forward hard and fast facts as to what will happen should there be a Brexit.

It seems all the Remain camp can do is put forward a whole bunch of hypotheticals and assumptions. Also bare in mind these are from those with vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

 

[RHB]

I read somewhere recently that a pamphlet is due to be delivered to households soon explaining the arguments for and against Brexit and remaining in, a non aligned way. It better hurry up, I've got my voting notice now saying where I have to go to vote. I've also got a bad case of total disinterest in the whole affair. I will vote, but only because I have the right to.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I read somewhere recently that a pamphlet is due to be delivered to households soon explaining the arguments for and against Brexit and remaining in, a non aligned way. It better hurry up, I've got my voting notice now saying where I have to go to vote. I've also got a bad case of total disinterest in the whole affair. I will vote, but only because I have the right to.

I assume this is the one refered to on Question Time. If so I wouldn't get your hopes up. From the little snippets they read out it seemed to be propaganda from both sides but delivered at the same time rather than separately.
Its so depressing that such a big thing was made about voting Tory in order to get a referendum and when it comes to pass the only choice we are given is which set of lies to believe.

 

[londonblue]

But therein lies the problem. Neither side can put forward hard and fast facts as to what will happen should there be a Brexit.

It seems all the Remain camp can do is put forward a whole bunch of hypotheticals and assumptions. Also bare in mind these are from those with vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

Which is what I have been saying, and why I believe this really comes down to gut feeling and peoples' attitude to risk.

I think you're probably correct that the remain camp have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. But, by the same token the leave campaign have a vested interest in upsetting the status quo.

 

[londonblue]

I assume this is the one refered to on Question Time. If so I wouldn't get your hopes up. From the little snippets they read out it seemed to be propaganda from both sides but delivered at the same time rather than separately.
Its so depressing that such a big thing was made about voting Tory in order to get a referendum and when it comes to pass the only choice we are given is which set of lies to believe.

And that is why (for me) turnout will be interesting. If it's high then at least the population is being consistent.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

And that is why (for me) turnout will be interesting. If it's high then at least the population is being consistent.

It certainly should be because it has such a big impact on the future but I do wonder how may of the undecideds won't vote as on 23rd they are still undecided. I don't feel like anyone is being assisted in decision making. I wouldn't be surprised if the vote was taken this time last year and then again on June 23rd the result would be near identical.

 

[mfurok]

I suggest you re-read post 829 on this thread.That qualifies as an answer I think.

I know you're a great fan of John Smith's.But I have some news for you -he's dead like Churchill.:winking:

Ps You don't seem to have noticed that the Scots are pro-EU.So am I.

PPS I would agree with you, (up to a point Lord Copper),that this is not necessarily a right v left wing issue.But not with your erroneous conclusion from that.

As Hank Williams said:-"Unless you've made no mistakes in your life , be careful of stones that you throw."

Sorry squire, post 829 does not explain how this can possibly be a right/left issue - it just spells out your arguments for voting YES.

That's fair enough but does not answer the question.

That's because it isn't about right v left - it's about delegating our ability to govern to Europe..........and the EU governing bodies are filled up with and propped up by people you despise.

This is nothing to do with the ordinary European man in the street, that appears to be the point you are missing. I will vote leave but will still have lots of non British friends and nothing will change in that regard.

As has been said elsewhere on here, the EU is utterly corrupt and I'm astounded that you want anything to do with it.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Sorry squire, post 829 does not explain how this can possibly be a right/left issue - it just spells out your arguments for voting YES.

That's fair enough but does not answer the question.

That's because it isn't about right v left - it's about delegating our ability to govern to Europe..........and the EU governing bodies are filled up with and propped up by people you despise.

This is nothing to do with the ordinary European man in the street, that appears to be the point you are missing. I will vote leave but will still have lots of non British friends and nothing will change in that regard.

As has been said elsewhere on here, the EU is utterly corrupt and I'm astounded that you want anything to do with it.

This corruption issue is central for my voting Leave.
How, why, is it allowed by 28 nations that their/our money continues to be pumped into an organisation that won't allow it's accounts to be audited?
This is illegal for individuals, organisations, charities and companies BUT the EU bureaucrats fat cats get away with it.

 

[Bielzibubz]

This corruption issue is central for my voting Leave.
How, why, is it allowed by 28 nations that their/our money continues to be pumped into an organisation that won't allow it's accounts to be audited?
This is illegal for individuals, organisations, charities and companies BUT the EU bureaucrats fat cats get away with it.

Because they are un-elected, en-democratic and answerable to no one except themselves. For them to say they have the interests of the population of the EU as a whole at heart is insulting to anyone with just a modicum of common sense. They care not one iota about you or I. All that matters is the great utopian ideal of a European Federal Superstate and to hell with anything and anyone that stands in their way. Just ask the French, Dutch and Irish.

Genuine questions to the remain campers.

1. Would you agree that the EU is un-democratic? Yes/No

2. Would you agree that it's financially wasteful and corrupt Yes/No

 

[mfurok]

I suggest you re-read post 829 on this thread.That qualifies as an answer I think.

I know you're a great fan of John Smith's.But I have some news for you -he's dead like Churchill.:winking:

Ps You don't seem to have noticed that the Scots are pro-EU.So am I.

PPS I would agree with you, (up to a point Lord Copper),that this is not necessarily a right v left wing issue.But not with your erroneous conclusion from that.

As Hank Williams said:-"Unless you've made no mistakes in your life , be careful of stones that you throw."

Prefer Neil Young myself........he and I have made a load of mistakes but we also made beautiful music.

Moving on to today's practical work, Question One is 'Do you stand four square with the EU on the TTIP?'

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Prefer Neil Young myself........he and I have made a load of mistakes but we also made beautiful music.

Moving on to today's practical work, Question One is 'Do you stand four square with the EU on the TTIP?'

TTIP (at least in its present form) won't happen.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36353013

More lies from the leave campaign about Turkey.