Fire in North Kensington.

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40453054

Who's going to argue that the switch to cheaper cladding had nothing to do with austerity cuts now?

 

[londonblue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40453054

Who's going to argue that the switch to cheaper cladding had nothing to do with austerity cuts now?

I didn't realise anyone had.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I didn't realise anyone had.

See various posts on this thread and elsewhere.

See 151 above for example.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-40461581

"Perceived failings" indeed.:nope:

 

[OldBlueLady]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40453054

Who's going to argue that the switch to cheaper cladding had nothing to do with austerity cuts now?

I'm not sure it's got anything to do with "austerity cuts", more about cost cutting generally which is what anyone does when faced with a tender of some kind - you look for savings to get the best value for your money. The fact is that this cladding should never have been deemed a viable option because it was unsafe and clearly untested effectively.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I'm not sure it's got anything to do with "austerity cuts", more about cost cutting generally which is what anyone does when faced with a tender of some kind - you look for savings to get the best value for your money. The fact is that this cladding should never have been deemed a viable option because it was unsafe and clearly untested effectively.

It's about profit at all costs

 

[rigsby]

I'm not sure it's got anything to do with "austerity cuts", more about cost cutting generally which is what anyone does when faced with a tender of some kind - you look for savings to get the best value for your money. The fact is that this cladding should never have been deemed a viable option because it was unsafe and clearly untested effectively.

Now, now OBL it was tested on a laptop model by an 'expert'. Yes, we know London Firefighters pointed out the dangers more than 10 years ago and those fears were realised 8 years ago when 6 people died in Camberwell.

Why take notice of the inquiry findings when we have 'experts' with laptops.....Who's findings remain confidential

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm not sure it's got anything to do with "austerity cuts", more about cost cutting generally which is what anyone does when faced with a tender of some kind - you look for savings to get the best value for your money. The fact is that this cladding should never have been deemed a viable option because it was unsafe and clearly untested effectively.

cutting fire services will obviously have a big effect on the ability to tackle fires and to offer advice on prevention.
Cameron stating he wanted to create a bonfire of health and safety laws is a quote I'm sure he now regrets but that is indicative of an attitude that such laws are there to be worked round. The consequences of that are very evident.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The Inquiry, when it starts, will I expect, sadly, be given a limited scope for it's investigation.
I can expect there to to be some investigation into the companies who made, marketed, fitted, approved and signed off on the cladding;- will they find evidence of "back handers" and corruption? It surely must happen at councils/companies regularly all over the country with so much out sourcing yet is almost never detected/investigated/prosecuted; although Southend had a few Housing planners gaoled in the 1980s IIRC.
Will the Inquiry look at to who (and why) this tower block and social housing is being allocated - a much wider issue BUT a major social concern as it's issues are wide spread; creating a tiered dysfunctional society :and not just in the negligent, careless attitude of Kensington Council: IMO the Inquiry will be prevented from examining these issues.

Lastly; will the Inquiry have the force for change effect on H & S, Fire Service etc that the MacPhearson report did on Policing?

 

[rigsby]

cutting fire services will obviously have a big effect on the ability to tackle fires and to offer advice on prevention.
Cameron stating he wanted to create a bonfire of health and safety laws is a quote I'm sure he now regrets but that is indicative of an attitude that such laws are there to be worked round. The consequences of that are very evident.

You do know that is was a Labour government that stopped fire inspections by the Firebrigade.

The attitude which you rightly point out has been a baton passed on by each group in power, nationally and locally.

The so called 'austerity' cuts have been happening in the emergency services for more nearly 30 years and not one government or opposition has ever tried to stop it. And no the odd cool sound bite " I would like to see our fire service better funded" does not count.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm not sure it's got anything to do with "austerity cuts", more about cost cutting generally which is what anyone does when faced with a tender of some kind - you look for savings to get the best value for your money. The fact is that this cladding should never have been deemed a viable option because it was unsafe and clearly untested effectively.

300,000 quid buys a lot of "austerity cuts" though.

Though Rigsby is right to point out that it was the Blair government which ended the legal requirement for tower blocks to be inspected by firebrigade officers.

 

[rigsby]

300,000 quid buys a lot of "austerity cuts" though.

Though Rigsby is right to point out that it was the Blair government which ended the legal requirement for tower blocks to be inspected by firebrigade officers.

It would fund about 30 MP's 11% pay rise......Money well spent

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

It would fund about 30 MP's 11% pay rise......Money well spent

Or 6 months of Dianne Abbott's expenses.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It would fund about 30 MP's 11% pay rise......Money well spent

Or 6 months of Dianne Abbott's expenses.

:net: Concentrate on the reasons for the fire, boys.Not peddling anti-Labour propaganda.

 

[rigsby]

:net: Concentrate on the reasons for the fire, boys.Not peddling anti-Labour
propoganda.

Did I say only Labour MP's got an 11% pay rise then.

That aside lets stick to the script and like you only blame anyone who's Tory. I mean they are fair game at the moment.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You do know that is was a Labour government that stopped fire inspections by the Firebrigade.

The attitude which you rightly point out has been a baton passed on by each group in power, nationally and locally.

The so called 'austerity' cuts have been happening in the emergency services for more nearly 30 years and not one government or opposition has ever tried to stop it. And no the odd cool sound bite " I would like to see our fire service better funded" does not count.

Agreed, I said early in the thread that these cuts were not a new thing, but each cut is worse than the last as what is left gets smaller each time. There is now the option of a party who will stop the cuts and start increasing these vital services. That is something that has not been on offer for a long time.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Did I say only Labour MP's got an 11% pay rise then.

That aside lets stick to the script and like you only blame anyone who's Tory. I mean they are fair game at the moment.

You'll remember I suppported your (and the PM's) contention that the cuts started under Blair.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

:net: Concentrate on the reasons for the fire, boys.Not peddling anti-Labour propaganda.

TIUB! I am surprised at you!
Miss Abbott's claims are not the point in issue, nor is the cause of the start of the fire.
The issues include neglect and cost cutting on the "build", negligent "house keeping" and also the council's distribution and priority assessment for the housing needs AND the impact that a Tory Council may have felt towards a group - the block's tenants - who are unlikely to be their natural voting supporters or socially mobile.
Politics does come into this, how much blame goes on poor housing stock due to high demand. Neither party, blue or red, have done their duty regards social or affordable housing for the last 40 years.

 

[rigsby]

The police are about to start interviewing the Firefighters who attended Grenfell Tower. Then they will be interviewed by the LFB who are doing a separate investigation and then the fire Brigades Union who are also doing an investigation.

The FBU have had a number of meetings with the police already and agreed that an FBU rep will be present at each interview.

With the mob demanding scapegoats and a history of Firebrigade senior management attempting to deflect blame onto individual Firefighters in some recent high profile court cases. I can see a scenario of firefighters making no comment under legal advice from solicitors. The same with civilian builders and architects etc.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

TIUB! I am surprised at you!
Miss Abbott's claims are not the point in issue, nor is the cause of the start of the fire.
The issues include neglect and cost cutting on the "build", negligent "house keeping" and also the council's distribution and priority assessment for the housing needs AND the impact that a Tory Council may have felt towards a group - the block's tenants - who are unlikely to be their natural voting supporters or socially mobile.
Politics does come into this, how much blame goes on poor housing stock due to high demand. Neither party, blue or red, have done their duty regards social or affordable housing for the last 40 years.

You obviously weren't listening to Jeremy Corbyn at PMQ's the other week.He clearly linked the fire to auserity under the Tories.

I tend to have some sympathy with your last comment though, as we know that the cuts go back to at least the Blair era.