Brexit negotiations thread

[rigsby]

the majority of the British public who voted, voted out.

That's the most important word in your statement.

 

[rigsby]

are you complaining that I'm blaming the people that are to blame? Surely that is the sensible thing to do as they are to blame.
I'm sorry if you find a truncated list of ways in which the Tories have let down both Remain and Leave voters but I'd be surprised if you can highlight any of those points not being valid.

Just asking you for one.....I will repeat one positive thing the Labour party have said about Brexit.....To help you out I will be happy to accept a personal view from you on behalf of Labour.

 

[Member]

That's the most important word in your statement.

It's funny because you say that's the case, but constantly want to divert any thread towards remainers and Labour/Corbyn.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Just asking you for one.....I will repeat one positive thing the Labour party have said about Brexit.....To help you out I will be happy to accept a personal view from you on behalf of Labour.

I voted Remain, I see no benefits to leaving and I don't think we will leave. Everything points to May and Davis making a complete hash of the negotiations. That will mean we just leave with no plan, or more likely the government collapses and we don't leave.

I'm a member of the Labour Party but they are not negotiating with the EU. I see the Labour policy on the EU as being relevant at the time when this government collapses, and not of much relevance till then. The policy will need to react to where we are at that point. That is why there are the 6 tests - its an indication of where things should be going, but as it is out of our hands in the meantime it needs to be fluid.

The current government are in a different situation, they are in the driving seat and they need to know where they are going. They have had plenty of time to put their markers down but they still don't seem to be at the point where they are willing to do that.

 

[rigsby]

I voted Remain, I see no benefits to leaving and I don't think we will leave. Everything points to May and Davis making a complete hash of the negotiations. That will mean we just leave with no plan, or more likely the government collapses and we don't leave.

I'm a member of the Labour Party but they are not negotiating with the EU. I see the Labour policy on the EU as being relevant at the time when this government collapses, and not of much relevance till then. The policy will need to react to where we are at that point. That is why there are the 6 tests - its an indication of where things should be going, but as it is out of our hands in the meantime it needs to be fluid.

The current government are in a different situation, they are in the driving seat and they need to know where they are going. They have had plenty of time to put their markers down but they still don't seem to be at the point where they are willing to do that.

Sticking your head in the Brexit sand won't help Labour in anyway. You do realise the Tories want a bad deal so that the next election will still be about Brexit.

Corbyn now can't go back on his I support the leave vote so you will have nowhere to go and Labour will lose.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sticking your head in the Brexit sand won't help Labour in anyway. You do realise the Tories want a bad deal so that the next election will still be about Brexit.

Corbyn now can't go back on his I support the leave vote so you will have nowhere to go and Labour will lose.

'Corbyn now can't go back on his I support the leave vote so you will have nowhere to go and Labour will lose'

As far as I am concerned he can, the 6 tests are there for all to see and if not met then Labour won't support the Tory version of Leave. If Labour were in power they would need to take us out of the EU, but they aren't in power and can legitimately say 'we would have left, but the Tories have ****ed it up so badly that it is not possibly to leave - it would be too damaging to the UK'.


'You do realise the Tories want a bad deal so that the next election will still be about Brexit'

What on earth? The Tories are being deliberately incompetent? That is a hot take.

 

[rigsby]

'Corbyn now can't go back on his I support the leave vote so you will have nowhere to go and Labour will lose'[/I]

As far as I am concerned he can, the 6 tests are there for all to see and if not met then Labour won't support the Tory version of Leave. If Labour were in power they would need to take us out of the EU, but they aren't in power and can legitimately say 'we would have left, but the Tories have ****ed it up so badly that it is not possibly to leave - it would be too damaging to the UK'.


'You do realise the Tories want a bad deal so that the next election will still be about Brexit'

What on earth? The Tories are being deliberately incompetent? That is a hot take.

The 6 tests are just nonsense that can be twisted anyway you like so are totally irrelevant.

All your views prove is what the majority all ready know. Labour and its remain supporters certainly don't respect the vote and your sudden claims you do are a desperate fraudulent attempt to win votes from the real working classes in the traditional Labour areas. from the very people you have spent years sneering at and continually playing the racist card rather than listening to them.

 

[londonblue]

I think it's fair to say there was a lot of people complacent about the result.
I voted but I didn't campaign, felt it was an internal Tory disagreement and a distraction from the real work that needed to be done. I didn't think there was any real danger of a Leave result.

********* being one of the most (or least) prominent of them.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

********* being one of the most (or least) prominent of them.

Corbyn? In what way?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The 6 tests are just nonsense that can be twisted anyway you like so are totally irrelevant.

All your views prove is what the majority all ready know. Labour and its remain supporters certainly don't respect the vote and your sudden claims you do are a desperate fraudulent attempt to win votes from the real working classes in the traditional Labour areas. from the very people you have spent years sneering at and continually playing the racist card rather than listening to them.

I thought I was clear and honest in what I wrote but you have taken a very different interpretation of my words than I intended so I could try again.

First though - this is a new angle so a bit more interesting - could you explain this further:

You do realise the Tories want a bad deal so that the next election will still be about Brexit'

You think they are deliberately pushing for a bad deal? We should have left the EU by the next election, are you saying we won't have left? I'm a bit confused on what you mean.

 

[londonblue]

Corbyn? In what way?

I'm 70% for the EU...

Complacency at it's worst. Not to mention going pretty much AWOL during the campaign. I think all sides need to take their share of the blame here.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm 70% for the EU...

Complacency at it's worst. Not to mention going pretty much AWOL during the campaign. I think all sides need to take their share of the blame here.

Corbyn campaigned up and down the country but his soundbites weren't outrageous enough to be front page news. Whilst the Tories were ripping themselves in half no other politicians were that newsworthy.


I'm sure lots of sensible words were spoken on all sides of the campaign but people only remember the outrageous bits. So Cameron predicted WW3, Osborne threatened a punishment budget, Farage stood next to a poster with a queue of refugees and alleged that was relevant, Johnson saying an out vote would gain £350m a week for the NHS. Corbyn's memorable quote was that he was 7/10 positive about the EU.


I'd be surprised if you were to tell me you would rather swap his memorable quote for one of the others above. It wasn't premeditated like those above either, it was an interview on a comedy show, 'out of 10 how enthusiastic are you about the EU'. Did you want him to say more than 7? I'm not sure any leading politician would have said more than 7 and expect to be believed.


We've been over the 7/10 many times before though.


What is new into the frame is some talking down the Good Friday Agreement - that is a new topic of discussion.


And to be fair to Rigsby rather than going over old ground he has come up with a new angle. I want to hear more about the idea that the Tories 'want a bad Brexit deal'. Intriguing.

 

[londonblue]

Corbyn campaigned up and down the country but his soundbites weren't outrageous enough to be front page news. Whilst the Tories were ripping themselves in half no other politicians were that newsworthy.


I'm sure lots of sensible words were spoken on all sides of the campaign but people only remember the outrageous bits. So Cameron predicted WW3, Osborne threatened a punishment budget, Farage stood next to a poster with a queue of refugees and alleged that was relevant, Johnson saying an out vote would gain £350m a week for the NHS. Corbyn's memorable quote was that he was 7/10 positive about the EU.


I'd be surprised if you were to tell me you would rather swap his memorable quote for one of the others above. It wasn't premeditated like those above either, it was an interview on a comedy show, 'out of 10 how enthusiastic are you about the EU'. Did you want him to say more than 7? I'm not sure any leading politician would have said more than 7 and expect to be believed.


We've been over the 7/10 many times before though.


What is new into the frame is some talking down the Good Friday Agreement - that is a new topic of discussion.


And to be fair to Rigsby rather than going over old ground he has come up with a new angle. I want to hear more about the idea that the Tories 'want a bad Brexit deal'. Intriguing.

If you can't even accept ********* should share some of the blame I don't really think you're worth debating with. No-one came out of this covered in glory. Some were worse than others, but to say ********* wasn't at all to blame is just blinkered in the extreme.

 

[rigsby]

Corbyn campaigned up and down the country but his soundbites weren't outrageous enough to be front page news. Whilst the Tories were ripping themselves in half no other politicians were that newsworthy.


I'm sure lots of sensible words were spoken on all sides of the campaign but people only remember the outrageous bits. So Cameron predicted WW3, Osborne threatened a punishment budget, Farage stood next to a poster with a queue of refugees and alleged that was relevant, Johnson saying an out vote would gain £350m a week for the NHS. Corbyn's memorable quote was that he was 7/10 positive about the EU.


I'd be surprised if you were to tell me you would rather swap his memorable quote for one of the others above. It wasn't premeditated like those above either, it was an interview on a comedy show, 'out of 10 how enthusiastic are you about the EU'. Did you want him to say more than 7? I'm not sure any leading politician would have said more than 7 and expect to be believed.


We've been over the 7/10 many times before though.


What is new into the frame is some talking down the Good Friday Agreement - that is a new topic of discussion.


And to be fair to Rigsby rather than going over old ground he has come up with a new angle. I want to hear more about the idea that the Tories 'want a bad Brexit deal'. Intriguing.

Come on *** you first, what is the 30% that Corbyn likes about Brexit. Labour won't get into power if its supporters drown out the leader because you don't like what he says.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If you can't even accept ********* should share some of the blame I don't really think you're worth debating with. No-one came out of this covered in glory. Some were worse than others, but to say ********* wasn't at all to blame is just blinkered in the extreme.

that comes across as a bit of a sulky reply, I've written my views and back them up with a valid argument but I have a different conclusion to you.

But I agree about not debating it with you, we are just saying things we have already said many times before.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

the majority of the British public who voted, voted out.

Yes narrowly but that demographic is changing rapidly and will only increase in the future.I was staggered to learn (after the formation of the new Remain party this week) that 75% of young people aged between 18 and 25 voted remain in the referendum.As the oldies, who mostly voted leave eventually die out, there will inevitably be a strong demand for yet another referendum on EU membership.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43131446

Tories like this will eventually cause a major rift in the government over Brexit.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Come on *** you first, what is the 30% that Corbyn likes about Brexit. Labour won't get into power if its supporters drown out the leader because you don't like what he says.

It's not really 30%. As I said above it wasn't a campaigning slogan, it was an answer to a question on a comedy show. It was 'how enthusiastic are you about the EU' not 'what percentage of things about leaving the EU appeal'.


It was an overall feeling of positivity about the EU structure not a list of pros and a list of cons then add them up.


Your question comes from your perspective and so it doesn't have an adequate answer from my perspective. I don't have a list of positives to leaving the EU, the Labour selling point is that due to a referendum we are leaving the EU, and that would be managed better by Labour than by the Tories. Personally I decided to vote Remain early on as I didn't think Cameron was capable of managing an EU exit and seemingly he agreed.


This idea of yours that the Tories are aiming for a bad deal is really interesting though, I didn't think there would be a new angle on what has become quite a stale subject but you have managed it.


If you could explain that further that would be appreciated - could liven up the discussion a bit.

 

[rigsby]

Yes narrowly but that demographic is changing rapidly and will only increase in the future.I was staggered to learn (after the formation of the new Remain party this week) that 75% of young people aged between 18 and 25 voted remain in the referendum.As the oldies, who mostly voted leave eventually die out, there will inevitably be a strong demand for yet another referendum on EU membership.

Not after the EU breaks up there won't.

Like the rest of Europe your desperate to see Brexit fail for you own selfish reasons. Its to late, with more extreme right wing movements on the march in the East the EU is a sinking ship.

After the break up, Catalonians will of course demand independence so you and your family will have to decide whether to support those wonderful and proud people or once again send in the thugs from Madrid.

 

[rigsby]

So ***, do you think its a good idea that Britian will be able to refuse entry to a convicted EU killer or child rapist after Brexit.

At the moment they can come here and use the NHS etc and in the case of that poor 14 year old girl from West London murder another victim....Is that acceptable under any circumstances?