Brown in or Brown out?

[EastStandBlue]

I can't claim to have any major problem with Brown's tactics, or even the results really. I haven't been able to watch us regularly for three years now, and I make teetering around midtable/the play-offs in the third tier our natural place in the grand scheme of the professional game, at least until our resources are bolstered by new facilities/a wealthy benefactor. In that sense, Brown's probably meeting expectation.

My major problem with Brown's overall management of the club is that our recruitment appears scattergun at best and wilfully negligent at worst. Brown prioritises well known players on their way down the ladder rather than the opposite. Certain units of the squad have been neglected at the behest of securing targets in positions we're already well stocked. From the outside looking in, it appears that next to no thought is given to what the squad might be two or three years down the line, with the here and new prioritised at every opportunity. It's resulted in a fairly unbalanced squad that can't handle injury crises that, whilst clearly bad, aren't as chronic as has been argued.

Now, that's Brown's prerogative. Football League managers rarely see far beyond their second anniversaries these days and if Brown wants to better his hand as much as possible then that's his decision. He will, however, have to deliver on that ambition.

Does that make him a bad manager? Not particularly. I'd argue however that it doesn't make him a particularly good fit for us. We need a concerted transfer policy with the next two/three/four years in mind or all we're doing is treading water, and wasting precious resource doing so.

 

[danburyshrimper]

• Would you prefer one of this lot then ?
• Steve Wignall
• Stewart Robson
• Rob Newman
• Mick Gooding
• Alvin Martin
• Ronnie Whelan
• Steve Thompson
• Peter Taylor
• Colin Murphy
• Dick Bate
• Bobby Moore
• Peter Morris

 

[southendkid]

If people really think Brown is the best manager we can get I feel sorry for you. Im not going to give names of possible managers as it's not my job to do so, same as it's not my job to sack Brown. We have had the players to walk the league but they area badly managed. I still say we got promoted despite Brown, we are finishing where we are each season despite Brown.

Stop being blinkered people

We have the players to walk this league? I can't think of anyone aside from Leonard that could be viewed as one of the best for their position in the league. Kightly, Wordsworth and Coker probably come close and I suppose Oxley is good enough for a title chasing team, although there are better keepers in the league. The rest of our defense certainly isn't top quality, although Kiernan and Turner haven't been seen yet. All our other wingers struggle to cross the ball so they aren't going to be in a team of the year. Cox and Ranger are alright but there are much better strikers in League 1 like Jack Marriott or Charlie Wyke, Fortune is good but seems to only have the legs for 30 minutes a fortnight and the less said about Theo the better.

If anything recruitment is the one area I'd criticise Brown for and I think he's doing a decent job given the circumstances.

 

[Ricky Otto]

If he applies the same logic as he did with Sturrock, the answer is yes.

I for one was impressed with the signings made and thought we looked stronger than last season, from this expected no less than play-offs. If we don't then I'm of the opinion that Brown has taken us as far as he can go.

I think that Ron will have absolute patience with Brown, but as with Sturrock, he will have plan B ready should we not reach his expectations by the end (if not before) of this season.

There were other contributing factors with Ron's decision in the case of Sturrock though. It is well documented that PS was spending less and less time with the team due to his deteriorating health. One thing you can credit Ron with is carefully considering managerial changes and not being knee jerk. Personally I think if PB were to fail to get promotion this year it would be a very different scenario to when PS was failing. I believe RM will stick with PB, but time will tell.

I was impressed with our signings too and thought promotion was realistic, I thought Kightly would tear this league apart. But does a lot of injuries prove he has taken us as far as he can? If we were to struggle the 1st half of the season and then be the best team in the league for the 2nd half but still fall short of the play offs would you if you were in RMs position think PB had taken us as far as we can go?

Only RM knows what is in RM's head but unless we are really struggling I believe PB will be our manager next season.

 

[Tommy2holes]

• Would you prefer one of this lot then ?
• Steve Wignall
• Stewart Robson
• Rob Newman
• Mick Gooding
• Alvin Martin
• Ronnie Whelan
• Steve Thompson
• Peter Taylor
• Colin Murphy
• Dick Bate
• Bobby Moore
• Peter Morris

Difficukt to judge all of those in comparison to Brown. They definately didn't have the same budget and some not even the same chairman.

I notice you failed to add webby fry Tilly etc.

Peter Taylor actually wasn't a bad manager. He entered a club selling its crown jewels and was left trying to get cheap recruitments to replace those that had been sold.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Doesn't every chairman outside of the Prem? He isn't going to get it this season however.

Maybe not but things will start to look a whole lot better if we can pick up 6 or even 4 points from our two home games this week.

 

[Blueronron]

• Would you prefer one of this lot then ?
• Steve Wignall
• Stewart Robson
• Rob Newman
• Mick Gooding
• Alvin Martin
• Ronnie Whelan
• Steve Thompson
• Peter Taylor
• Colin Murphy
• Dick Bate
• Bobby Moore
• Peter Morris

Where's the greatest of them all Alan Little:smile:

 

[Kevin Hogg]

Where's the greatest of them all Alan Little:smile:

I have to disagree. For me it was Colin Murphy. He was truly atrocious at Roots Hall. However, the funny thing about football is that it is often "right place, right time"..or not. As Murphy is highly regarded as a coach throughout football...sadly not by me.
I was biased by first impression - as many have been to PB for same reason. I drove to Newcastle opening day of that season. It was not the tropics but a relatively bright, mild day in the North East as it was of course August. I looked over at the dugout to see our new manager...and oh dear. There he was...sitting with a blanket over his legs like the Queen Mum.
Murphy out!!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

• Would you prefer one of this lot then ?
• Steve Wignall
• Stewart Robson
• Rob Newman
• Mick Gooding
• Alvin Martin
• Ronnie Whelan
• Steve Thompson
• Peter Taylor
• Colin Murphy
• Dick Bate
• Bobby Moore
• Peter Morris

Thompson, Gooding and Robson were all caretaker managers. Take those three out and you're left with 9 actual managers - the same number as you've deleted as you presumably consider them to have been good managers.

So by your reckoning that must be a 50:50 chance of getting someone decent. Not sure I'd agree with your lists but I'd hardly find those odds off-putting.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Where's the greatest of them all Alan Little:smile:

Bit off topic but when I was living in Australia the team all my mates played for Armadale SC had a manager called Brad Hassell, who played for Australia u23s in the Olympics and is a bit of a Perth Glory legend. One night I was chatting to him about football and how I supported Southend and he said "yeah I know Southend I had a trial there". Turns out he had a trial here for a couple of weeks when Alan Little was manager, didn't really think much of Little and felt the team didn't have a clue what he wanted. Spoke very highly of Rob Newman though, who showed him around and looked after him during his stay.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

So many people have differing views on here. It's a very simple poll.

I disagree. I think it’s quite a complex poll with many considerations. On this poll I voted Bremain rather than Brexit though :smile:

 

[Kevin Hogg]

I do think the poll is obviously representative of views today. In a fast moving industry a few days is a long time.
I voted Brown most definitely IN. However, I do think that PB has an additional Achilles Heal currently - the signing of Kiernan & Turner.
I passionately hope we get maximum points this week. However, IF we were to lose another couple of games WITHOUT any input from Kiernan or Turner - the signing of either/both will become an even greater issue.
So C'Mon You Shrimpers! Lets get up the league table this week!!

 

[mattitouk]

We wont get any input from Kiernan in the next couple of games, he's just had a operation and is out for at least another two months.

 

[AndyT]

I do hear the 'Brown Out' point of view and some reasons that have been raised are credible.

For example, he has definitely made a pigs-ear of the central defence. Releasing or retiring too many decent centre-halves and Jakob Sokolik! .. To not convince Thompson to stay and also release Bolger were poor decisions. I know there's some JW fans on here, but is it just a coincidence that we are as leaky as a busted tap when JW seems to play there. I like him. Good honest pro, but a centre-half at this level. I'm not so sure.

However, my real question is. Who are we actually aspiring to be like in our division that our current set-up is so short of?

Last summer, I read we should be looking to be like Gillingham, Peterborough or Port Vale, with their fine managers and early dips into the transfer market. Their wholesale improvements on player quality and so on.

Then, this summer it's Bury. Old Lee Clark is so shrewd in the market. Snapping up the likes of Chris MaGuire and Jermaine Beckford. Or there's Northampton. Getting in successful Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink to steer them to the promised land.

On the face of it, fair points of view.

Only that they are no better than us and one or two are considerably worse off.

Bottom line is, we have some quality players here. We have a budget to keep us in this division at the very least. We are unbeaten at home. We have players due back from injury soon. We have a settled youth system with players starting to break into the side. We have a good fanbase.

We are far from perfect, but I saw Sturrock's first game in charge, at home to Stockport in August 2010. We were a club on it's knees. 7 years later, we are settled in League One. Having achieved this by keeping faith with our two managers.

My view is that it isn't anywhere near broken enough that it needs fixing.

 

[TSG]

Far too many times.

Come on you Blues, six points from the next two games please.

 

[TSG]

Woops, was replying to an earlier post but the poll seems to be answering the question well enough.

Very sad we have to go through this in October!

 

[C C Csiders]

Is Phil in anyway responsible for this strange coloured sky?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I do hear the 'Brown Out' point of view and some reasons that have been raised are credible.

For example, he has definitely made a pigs-ear of the central defence. Releasing or retiring too some decent centre-halves and Jakob Sokolik! .. To not convince Thompson to stay and also release Bolger were poor decisions. I know there's some JW fans on here, but is it just a coincidence that we are as leaky as a busted tap when JW seems to play there. I like him. Good honest pro, but a centre-half at this level. I'm not so sure.

However, my real question is. Who are we actually aspiring to be like in our division that our current set-up is so short of?

Last summer, I read we should be looking to be like Gillingham, Peterborough or Port Vale, with their fine managers and early dips into the transfer market. Their wholesale improvements on player quality and so on.

Then, this summer it's Bury. Old Lee Clark is so shrewd in the market. Snapping up the likes of Chris MaGuire and Jermaine Beckford. Or there's Northampton. Getting in successful Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink to steer them to the promised land.

On the face of it, fair points of view.

Only that they are no better than us and one or two are considerably worse off.

Bottom line is, we have some quality players here. We have a budget to keep us in this division at the very least. We are unbeaten at home. We have players due back from injury soon. We have a settled youth system with players starting to break into the side. We have a good fanbase.

We are far from perfect, but I saw Sturrock's first game in charge, at home to Stockport in August 2010. We were a club on it's knees. 7 years later, we are settled in League One. Having achieved this by keeping faith with our two managers.

My view is that it isn't anywhere near broken enough that it needs fixing.

I don't aspire to be anyone else. I aspire to be Southend.

I've been consistent that I want us bring through young players not just as an afterthought but as an integral part of their development. I want us to have a long term plan, to sign and develop players on an upwards rather than downwards career trajectory instead of the succession of journeyman stop-gaps.

The path should be squad player -> first team starter -> star -> sold for a profit to reinvest

Some will just end up squad players, some will become first team players (see Adam Thompson), some will become stars (see Ryan Leonard) and then they can be sold and the proceeds reinvested (see Ryan Hall).

When that model is operated properly you don't get caught out if a player leaves because you've been grooming their replacement to step in.

 

[mattitouk]

Is Phil in anyway responsible for this strange coloured sky?

Yeah, his can of spray tan exploded during training.

 

[AndyT]

I've been consistent that I want us bring through young players not just as an afterthought but as an integral part of their development. I want us to have a long term plan, to sign and develop players on an upwards rather than downwards career trajectory instead of the succession of journeyman stop-gaps.

The path should be squad player -> first team starter -> star -> sold for a profit to reinvest

Perfectly plausible and something any business minded club would want. I totally support and agree with this.

However, it's a balancing act of doing this with a long term stategy and retaining the club at the right level.

RM wants promotion. PB wants promotion. The new ground and potential investors want that. It's a quick fix scenario.

As a result, there's no patience in developing youngsters into the side. Take this season. Dru, Elvis, Kyps are starting to come through. However, there's still plenty of people saying they are not ready. They are not going to get us in the play-offs. Ted Smith. Lambasted on here time and again. Too inexperienced and so on.

Bottom line is that no-one has the patience to see the development through over time. I wish they had. I really do. Matsuzaka should have played on Saturday. He didn't.

I've seen the Under 18's this season. There's some talent there. The structure is in place.

However, is there the patience or is it just a results game?