IF Sainsbury pull out?

[Jam_Man]

In that case, in the interests of time, wouldn't it be better if RM stays?

I think we are pretty much back to the beginning whatever if Sainsbury have gone.

If Ron was able to obtain a buyer and funding then yes it may be better if he stays, but he never managed to hence we sat so long Sainsbury may have changed their policies.

On the other hand someone else coming in may get it moving with the right funding.

Personally whilst I think there will be plenty of interested parties interested in buying the club intself I wonder how many of them would be in a position to actually get a stadium built. If Roots Hall being redeveloped cant pay for it (and as we were building 3 sides Id assume it wont) I cant imagine there being a big queue of people wanting to put in millions.

 

[Pubey]

No, what I am saying is if new people came in and even changed the stadium plans, I still believe they would get it done quicker and to plan, than Ron would. All confidence in him delivering has been shot to pieces from my point of view.

Really? So now it's definitely Ron's fault that Sainsbury's might pull out, even though they've publicly stated that they're reviewing all new developments.

 

[Smiffy]

Really? So now it's definitely Ron's fault that Sainsbury's might pull out, even though they've publicly stated that they're reviewing all new developments.

Have I said it is all Rons fault Sainsbury are potentially pulling out?

All I have said is I have lost confidence in him delivering. This is purely for the fact a 22,000 seater stadium has become a 14,000 seater stadium with no guarantee of a Main Stand. Plus the fact it has been about 8 years and we are no closer. Countless deadlines missed and continued silence on the matter. Blame the banks, blame Sainsbury but Ron also has to shoulder some of it as well. Plenty of other stadiums have gone up since the banking collapse...a stadium does not take this long to build, if the person behind it is in a proper position to do so. Sorry, but that is my opinion.

 

[Jam_Man]

Really? So now it's definitely Ron's fault that Sainsbury's might pull out, even though they've publicly stated that they're reviewing all new developments.

Its surely Rons fault that we took 8 years to get anywhere which allowed them time to change their policy.

If he had been able to deliver and we had started building 5 years ago this wouldnt have happened.

Do you have any confidence that he can deliver a stadium now when he couldnt when Sainsbury wanted Roots Hall?

 

[Pubey]

Have I said it is all Rons fault Sainsbury are potentially pulling out?

All I have said is I have lost confidence in him delivering. This is purely for the fact a 22,000 seater stadium has become a 14,000 seater stadium with no guarantee of a Main Stand. Plus the fact it has been about 8 years and we are no closer. Countless deadlines missed and continued silence on the matter. Blame the banks, blame Sainsbury but Ron also has to shoulder some of it as well. Plenty of other stadiums have gone up since the banking collapse...

Personally I'm confident that an experienced property developer could see this through. Ron is a victim of several external circumstances, and possibly his own ego. Yes other developments and stadia have gone up, but also plenty of other clubs have gone into administration and liquidation.

Ron is the person who is in place to lose the most out of this mess IMO. That's why I have some confidence that he can pull it off - even if it does get delayed again for more years.

 

[londonblue]

No, what I am saying is if new people came in and even changed the stadium plans, I still believe they would get it done quicker and to plan, than Ron would. All confidence in him delivering has been shot to pieces from my point of view.

I see. So you're assuming that if Sainsbury's pull out then a new owner would manage to draw up plans, submit for approval and build quicker than RM could just do the build?

I would say you may be right, but that I doubt it since my understanding is that the only thing now stopping the start of FF is whether or not Sainsbury's will continue.

The thing is, we'll probably never find out which of us (if either) is right!

 

[londonblue]

I think we are pretty much back to the beginning whatever if Sainsbury have gone.

If Ron was able to obtain a buyer and funding then yes it may be better if he stays, but he never managed to hence we sat so long Sainsbury may have changed their policies.

On the other hand someone else coming in may get it moving with the right funding.

Personally whilst I think there will be plenty of interested parties interested in buying the club intself I wonder how many of them would be in a position to actually get a stadium built. If Roots Hall being redeveloped cant pay for it (and as we were building 3 sides Id assume it wont) I cant imagine there being a big queue of people wanting to put in millions.

You realise of course I was answering a specific point from Smiffy?

 

[Smiffy]

I see. So you're assuming that if Sainsbury's pull out then a new owner would manage to draw up plans, submit for approval and build quicker than RM could just do the build?

I would say you may be right, but that I doubt it since my understanding is that the only thing now stopping the start of FF is whether or not Sainsbury's will continue.

The thing is, we'll probably never find out which of us (if either) is right!

Yep, with you on that one! :hilarious:

 

[londonblue]

Really? So now it's definitely Ron's fault that Sainsbury's might pull out, even though they've publicly stated that they're reviewing all new developments.

It's not Ron's fault that Sainsbury's may be pulling out. What is his fault is that it has taken so long to get nowhere tangible that they are now have the opportunity to pull out.

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

I would suggest a reasonable plan would be for Ron and his property developers to seek planning permission to build flats/houses on the RH site as this now a massivly more attractive proposal than a few years ago given the huge leap in property values - potentially millions for Ron. Obviously the same rules apply regarding the relocation of the stadium, i.e. 13k seats must be up and runniung at FF before work could begin.

One massive flaw in this plan.....RM cannot finance a project of this size. Sainsbury's were financing their own build and part of the new stadium, without them the whole thing is dead in the water.

 

[Pubey]

Its surely Rons fault that we took 8 years to get anywhere which allowed them time to change their policy.

If he had been able to deliver and we had started building 5 years ago this wouldnt have happened.

Do you have any confidence that he can deliver a stadium now when he couldnt when Sainsbury wanted Roots Hall?

Seeing as we don't have any info on if and how various delays happened then I'm not sure how anyone can pin this solely on Ron. Yet again it's just black and white on SZ.

I have some confidence, because I can still see a very attractive proposition for a supermarket. Ron has plans (expiring) for FF and CPOs for the RH site. It requires a willing supermarket to come in pretty quick - and although Ron has a tarnish reputation he also has the ability to sell 'the dream of FF' to plenty of people - fundamentally because it's a good deal which benefits a lot of people.

It's what Ron is able to do in the mean time to support the club which is the worry. At some point he probably is going to have to carve off chunks of the development to raise finance.

Strange (good?) that we actually seem to be in a solid financial situation while this huge disaster is apparently looming...

 

[Ricky Otto]

Personally I'm confident that an experienced property developer could see this through. Ron is a victim of several external circumstances, and possibly his own ego. Yes other developments and stadia have gone up, but also plenty of other clubs have gone into administration and liquidation.

Ron is the person who is in place to lose the most out of this mess IMO. That's why I have some confidence that he can pull it off - even if it does get delayed again for more years.

I agree with this, just worried what sort of state/debt the club will be left in once he's completed his project and gets rid of the club

 

[Pubey]

It's not Ron's fault that Sainsbury's may be pulling out. What is his fault is that it has taken so long to get nowhere tangible that they are now have the opportunity to pull out.

He has CPOs (and deals) in place with RH residents. He has a new agreement with the council over the payment for access roads(?). He has a new phased plan agreed for FF. He has tenders (I think) for FF. All tangible IMO.

 

[Smiffy]

He has CPOs (and deals) in place with RH residents. He has a new agreement with the council over the payment for access roads(?). He has a new phased plan agreed for FF. He has tenders (I think) for FF. All tangible IMO.

The S106 is not in place, despite being told it was almost done about 2 years ago....well it wasn't a few weeks ago when I asked the Council. No deals have been agreed for Prospects (The complete opposite in this case) or the remaining businesses/homes on Vic Ave. In fact I am sure I saw St Mary's Court flats (some of them) were being rented out to housing association individuals.

 

[londonblue]

He has CPOs (and deals) in place with RH residents. He has a new agreement with the council over the payment for access roads(?). He has a new phased plan agreed for FF. He has tenders (I think) for FF. All tangible IMO.

When I say tangible I meant nothing has been started. I'm also not sure that some (most?) of what you have said is actually correct. For example, I don't think they have agreed the payment schedule, and I believe that the tenders may well be out of date by now.

 

[tommy tucker]

At this present time I dont think to many fans are losing to many sleepless nights over the non action of Fossets farm . We at the present time are plying our trade at rootshall still and doing pretty well . If the sainsburys deal falls through and Ron then bails out .I am sure there are still many irons that would take over the running of the club .

 

[SUFCFANS]

Ron effectively owns one of the most valuable pieces of land in Southend, the RH plot is literally worth millions and millions. If Sainsburys pull out that is not the end of Ron or Southend, as the rule applies to the RH land (not Sainsburys) that the club needs to have a new home with at least 13k, before freeing up the RH plot. The cost of building a 20million or even 40million stadium on FF is tiny cmpared to value of RH, be it used by Sainsburys, Ron builing his own houses/flats selling to another developer etc. I would suggest the impact of Sainsburys pulling out to you and me, is simply, more time..

 

[londonblue]

At this present time I dont think to many fans are losing to many sleepless nights over the non action of Fossets farm . We at the present time are plying our trade at rootshall still and doing pretty well . If the sainsburys deal falls through and Ron then bails out .I am sure there are still many irons that would take over the running of the club .

I don't want any Wet Spam fans taking over Southend United.

 

[Jam_Man]

Seeing as we don't have any info on if and how various delays happened then I'm not sure how anyone can pin this solely on Ron. Yet again it's just black and white on SZ.

I have some confidence, because I can still see a very attractive proposition for a supermarket. Ron has plans (expiring) for FF and CPOs for the RH site. It requires a willing supermarket to come in pretty quick - and although Ron has a tarnish reputation he also has the ability to sell 'the dream of FF' to plenty of people - fundamentally because it's a good deal which benefits a lot of people.

It's what Ron is able to do in the mean time to support the club which is the worry. At some point he probably is going to have to carve off chunks of the development to raise finance.

Strange (good?) that we actually seem to be in a solid financial situation while this huge disaster is apparently looming...

We have had that for 8 years and there is no new stadium.

Even with Sainsbury buying Roots Hall we are at best going to get a 3 sided stadium.

It's Rons project and he is responsible for delivering. If Sainsbury pull out now then thats not Ron's fault, but his inability to deliver in the 7 years prior is what allowed that to happen, if it does.

Who's responsible for the not delivering in the first 7 years if not Ron ?

 

[Tommy2holes]

Personally if sainsburies do one and we end up with say a stadium like Rotherams id be chuffed